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".... If you had stopped digging for info. If we had drawn a line under this and started again. But no. You had to go on and on and on pummeling me."

I HAVE to stop talking to him about the affair. We are filing. It is over. But I get drawn into conversations about the affair, hoping he will tell me the full truth.

I have suffered horrendous TT. He was still lying last week about a new woman that he lent money to, lying it had been repaid. He lied when I had the bank statements! Finally, he confessed. That late confession was my fault because I would have got angry.

Yet I keep talking to him. It is an insane thing to so.

This is what he said last night....

The marriage could have been saved with a fresh start

He went online to google affairs and divorce and the advice was not to disclose details

Most marriages recover from infidelity, my statistics are wrong

Shirley Glass's advice about total transparency is wrong

It is all a question of perception

The eharmony account from 2008, which I discovered last week, was set up because he was bored and goofing around online. He never met anyone.

Nothing with any woman happened between 2008-2011 when affair with OW 1 started

The affair wasn't disloyal to me because he never intended to leave me.

I have to stop this communication with him, we are doing an in house separation for another 8 weeks or so.
How? Any advice?

Once you come to terms with the fact that you will NEVER have the full truth, the urge to engage in these conversations begins to go away.

3 affairs.

The affair wasn't disloyal to me because he never intended to leave me.

^^^^^This attitude?

What else is it that you want to know from him? Do you feel it will help you in some way? How?

My only suggestion is that he move out. The in-house separation isn't working for you, psychologically. It would be easier to not want to ask him things if you weren't having to see him so much.

I'm sorry for your pain.

The affair wasn't disloyal to me because he never intended to leave me.

Seriously??, he said that with a straight face?

I have heard some doozies from WS on here, but, come on . .

He does not get it AT ALL.

I understand the need to know. It is an attempt to make sense of the reality of your life!

I know I dug until I had a clear sense of what he was actually doing while I thought he was at work or at a conference etc.
You have to decide when you have learned enough.
The reason the marriage cannot survive the affairs is because he is dishonest, blaming you and not taking any responsibility. My ex told me that the affair with the escort did not count because he used his personal money and not any of the marital estate. Oh yeah, and he never wanted to leave me.
I do not understand this twisted thinking. But then again I have never needed to justify this type of behavior.

If he lied all this time why would he stop now?

[This message edited by risingfromashes at 6:51 AM, October 14th (Monday)]

My thought is that the marriage could have been saved if he were a real man and didn't fuck around on his wife, but what do I know? I'm not a blame-shifting loser.

I have to stop this communication with him, we are doing an in house separation for another 8 weeks or so. How? Any advice?

I do a fair amount of animal behavior modification, and the theory is the same with human behavior. Positive reinforcement works the best.

What does success look like for you with this goal? Not having a relationship conversation? Ignoring him completely? Figure that out. Then, get a calendar and mark down every time you achieve your goal for the day.

For example, if your goal is to not have any relationship talk with him, mark a smiley face down on every day when you avoid one. Pretty soon, you'll want to see smiley faces, and it will help you change your behavior. Additionally, come up with rewards for goals that are achievable. Perhaps you get a massage after 5 days straight of smiley faces, or a new pair of earrings if you get 25 out of 31 days this month. Something that will motivate you.

Another component is setting yourself up for success. Don't allow yourself to be in a situation where a conversation like this takes place. Spend as much time out of the home as possible so you don't have to be with him. Go to the library and read a book there until it closes. Go to movies. Spend time with a friend.

You can do this! It's tough, but you get better with practice!!!

Phmh, I'm running out right now to work but that is very helpful. The sep agreement specifies that he can stay until his house is sorted out with a limit of two weeks after the final hearing. So I can't escape him for about two months. I need your tyoe of plan. Thank you!

I understand the need to know. It is an attempt to make sense of the reality of your life!

I know I dug until I had a clear sense of what he was actually doing while I thought he was at work or at a conference etc.

Thank you, that is EXACTLY how I feel. I started off being told that this was a 3-month flirtation. Now I am at 3 OW, one full on PA lasting 18 months until he was caught, 1 online dating account, 1 secret email acccount, several messages to women on Classmates and a $1500 unpaid loan to OW3.

I know I will never know it all and I am getting close to the point where I am done digging. All I want now is some idea if there was ever a time in our ten-year marriage when he was faithful or if it all kicked off in 2008. Like you said, it is just to get a sense of the reality.

I know the divorce will help me draw a line under it. I feel hugely better having filed.

As far as the conversations with WH, I allow myself to get drawn in. That is my part in this. I keep thinking he will crack and tell me the truth. I realize, writing that, how crazy it sounds.

phmh asked what I wanted:

1. Conversations limited to arrangements for our daughter and current and future practicalities

2. No requests for "a hug"

3. WH to stay out of my bathroom. He has his own bathroom downstairs but he keeps his deodorant and aftershave in my bathroom. He sleeps downstairs so that is fine.

4. An end to all the jokey/poor-me comments e.g. "I suppose you are planning a party for when I'm gone."

"I don't want to be destitute."

5. An end to WH pressuring me to work it out with him because he has been "good" since D Day and of course he will never do it again. He just doesn't get it, the fact of what he did, and he still doesn't really take responsibility although he claims to.

"You were the perfect wife. She didn't mean anything."

It's just so hard not to respond but I have to stop for my own sanity.

WOW!! He is a pro at mind game fuckery. Please, for your own sanity, stop engaging! Look at his track record. You will never get the whole truth. Even if he did tell you the whole truth, how would you know?

I totally get needing to know the "truth". At some point, I just stop giving a shit but that only happened when I stopped focusing on stbx and starting focusing on me. Continue to focus on YOUR healing!

I am so sorry that you have in house separation. That is a hell that I could never do. Please move his shaving shit to his bathroom. Your bedroom and bathroom are YOUR sanctuary. Sending you hugs to get through the next couple of months of in house separation and sending you strength to move forward and away from his mind fuckery bullshit.

You can't stop his behaviour, don't even try. All you can do is be careful with your own boundaries.

Bathroom? Take his stuff out & put a padlock on the door if he won't respect your privacy.

Requests for hugs? - just blank him. If you have children present,just say "No thank you" and walk away

Oh JPD again I am right there with you. About 7 more weeks of in house sep before he moves out, which will be AFTER D is final. Lord give me strength. I also cannot get the truth, not that it would change anything, but dammit don't we have the right to make peace with our own history? It's so hard to accept we will never have it. My H doesn't want the D either, and it is hacking away at me to be in the same house. I have begged him to leave, but he won't. There are so many powerful emotions - grief, rage, fear, disappointment, even hate. And somehow underneath all that, still some love, as much as it pains me. I feel like I'm being hacked to death with a butter knife. Hugs to you, we are going to make it!!

Read this:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/divorce/no_contact.asp

Print it out, shrink it and carry it with you at all times. Re-read as necessary. It's a lifesaver.

My dad told me something kinda smart (shhhh...don't tell him I said he was smart ):
Keep in mind his truth to lie ratio and that's what you can expect in the future.

Think about how many, 100% truths this guy has told. Now compare it to partial truths and all out lies.

Once you admit to yourself that everything this guy says is a lie, you realize how pointless it is to ask him for truth. Would a liar speak truth just because you asked for it? Nope, he's just going to keep lying because that is what he does.

I get that you want the truth but here's a cold hard one for you: You are never going to get him to give you the truth. Never.
I know, it sucks.
But think about all the energy that you spend on chasing his truth. Is there something else you can do with that energy (I like to run)?

Gee, Jemima, if ONLY you had been a better wife ! You would have accepted his transgressions and just let him continue down his happy path. Silly you ! What a JERK he is. Sending hugs.....

Thank you. Triple, I could have written your post and we are on the same time schedule. I find the weekends the hardest.

Sad, I read that article and I will print it out. So basically it is contact limited to strictly limited content and no feelings. Yep, that's it.

What everyone is basically saying is to give up the idea that one day he will fall to his knees and confess every detail. And that I need to focus my energy on myself. OK. All that happens anyway in these conversations is that he gets defensive and comes out with these ridiculous statements which incense and exhaust me.

I am going to see a friend for a couple of days away and I need to plan more time out of the house at the weekends when WH is around. The days are fine because he is at work.....

That need to know business is tricky. We want the truth so badly, and they rewrite history and we want to wave that truth flag around and say, "See????"
Because we know we are right and true and we are the ones justified in our feelings, but that's, I think, the slippery slope of the betrayed. Because they don't and won't see, no matter how much we want them to.
That's why someone somewhere coined the phrase, "You can be right, or you can be happy."
Because we have to let go of that desire to have it all out there in order to move forward. We aren't going to get it, no matter how many tears are shed, prayers sent out, and cries screamed into the pillow. Ain't gonna happen.

I told a good friend of mine today that when someone breaks in to your home and is caught, there are ramifications for that. When someone cheats, where is the justice? We are often left all alone while the cheaters are in happy land making a new life. I wonder how many of us would heal more quickly if we knew there would be justice. Since we can't and don't know, focus on you. Focus on what happiness is to you, not shedding a light on that asshat. They won't get it, and the energy you spend on it leads to nothing but more energy spent on someone not worth your very valuable time.
You know you are right. We know. Now do for you.

[This message edited by Iamhappytoday at 9:09 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

I don't have any advice, jemimapd, only support. I feel so bad he put you through this. His idea on "saving the marriage" is nothing but horseshit. FTG.

My thought is that the marriage could have been saved if he were a real man and didn't fuck around on his wife, but what do I know? I'm not a blame-shifting loser.

Thanks phmh for rescuing the head of pissed off steam I had going for this ASS... nailed it in one you did.

(((jem)))

^^^^^ THIS!