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If he didn't love me enough then, he won't love me enough when..

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hobbeskat posted 10/14/2013 16:47 PM

...I get old.

...I get sick.

...I get pregnant and hormonal. When I turn into a mum and I'm not his sexy wife anymore. When I'm exhausted and covered in puke.

There's a Facebook page dedicated to a woman who died of breast cancer, from her husband. He took many beautiful, painful moving photos of her during her battle. He obviously loved her so much. She was diagnosed 5 months after they got married and he was there with her, all the way. 5 months after I got married, my husband was having an affair. I'm not comparing the two. I just thought my husband loved me like that. But he didn't. And I don't know if he ever still will, no matter what he says. I don't trust his love in me anymore. Whatever he does, he'll do it resentfully. He bailed when things got even slightly tough. He'll do it again.

So why am I bothering?

[This message edited by hobbeskat at 4:48 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

crazyblindsided posted 10/14/2013 17:06 PM

...I get old.

...I get sick.

I worry about this too. That's why I take good care of myself for ME, just in case

hobbeskat posted 10/14/2013 17:08 PM

I have an illness, though. I have a recurring, chronic illness which I am afraid to be at the mercy again of in case he goes and has another affair. I was ill when he started his one.

Dallas2 posted 10/14/2013 17:40 PM

MY H's A was about a year after my DX. He remained faithful through out all the testing and trips to ER. My Many attacks but when he found out what was wrong and that it was incurable he lost it. He thought he was in love with her and yet all she was was a younger, healthier version of me. He stayed for his own selfishness. he didn't want people to think he was an asshole for leaving his sick wife. I don't believe he will do it again or I wouldn't be here. My illness has the highest divorce rates among chronic illnesses. Many times it is the partner who leaves but sometimes it is the sick person. I have thought of it but I believe in sickness and in health.
I am not the same person he M and he sure as hell is not the same person I married but I think he'll be by my side if or when I get sicker. HOPE and FAITH!! LOVE???

hobbeskat posted 10/14/2013 17:51 PM

The person he had an A with was a personality disordered heroin addict. Sicker than me, by far, sicker in the head. Still he supported her, not me. Was with her, not me. When I was suffering, he went to her, not me. Why should I believe it won't happen again?

crazyblindsided posted 10/14/2013 18:02 PM


When I was suffering, he went to her, not me. Why should I believe it won't happen again?

Do you have any good friends and family that you lean on?

I'm so sorry you have this illness.

Gr8Lady posted 10/14/2013 18:04 PM

It is about them. When I was younger I was smokin hot. He cheated. I'm now past. 60 don't look my age, have the same size 4 clothing. What he cheated on me 2012 may have been half my age and his but was plain as can be and would make 3 of me in size.

It is ALL about what they want not what they have.

Ostrich80 posted 10/14/2013 18:13 PM

This post really speaks to me. I have a chronic illness that will eventually cripple me. I make myself move everyday, days that I'm in pain, I push through. I have thought about this so many times. I don't want to be with him when I'm older. I don't want him to fake like the doting husband. He Doesnt cut me any slack nor give me any extra help now so I know later what it will be like. I'll be damned if I let him use me to look good. I'm between a rock and a hard place, I don't want to be dependant on him, yet I need his medical insurance. It's so odd that if I was told today, I had 6mo to live, I would make him leave and not see him but I let him stay now. I havent figured that one out yet. I know would happen if I got really sick, he proved that to me when I was so ill with morning sickness. If he can't handle 6 mos of a puking wife, he sure as hell couldn't handle a n illness.

cantgetup posted 10/14/2013 19:09 PM

WH and I were watching a movie. In the movie the H was sacrificing his own life for that of his wife. In order to survive only one could stay on the ship. He refused saying he would rather die saving his wife than leave her to survive alone without her. I cried profusely asking over and over "do husbands really do that for wives"? Obviously only a movie but hit me hard, hard. And I am +2 years out with a remorseful H.

blakesteele posted 10/14/2013 19:32 PM

double post...sorry

[This message edited by blakesteele at 8:09 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

blakesteele posted 10/14/2013 19:42 PM

I have this recurring thought most fWS betrayed me several times during her affair, put our children and our health at risk too. It hurts and I have wondered this same wonderment before...if my wife would be there for me if I were diagnosed with a terminal illness tomorrow. One of the benefits fWS have with a BS who is working hard on R is that we have proven that we can take extreme trauma and not forsake our spouse. But this isn't a one-upsmanship, is it? I am not keeping score but am recognizing how an A affects both the BS and fWS in very opposing ways with regards to the strength of commitment.

Having said that...bare with me.....

Philosophically...maybe the question isn't if they loved their BS enough, maybe it was that they didn't love themselves enough.

Don't throw stones...hear me out.

An A is an escape...right? Sure they are escaping from the M and family they were a part of, had a hand in developing...I get that...but I wonder if they aren't escaping from themselves first and foremost. Maybe that is why some fWS express such shock that they have found themselves in their A to begin with? They escaped from themselves for a bit...and when they find themselves they are like....Holy crap! How did I get here?!?!?

Don't get me wrong....Affairs are the most hurtful acts one person can do to another. God realizes this...thus the only sin where divorce is an option according to the bible. Researchers also document this...trauma a BS experiences from infidelity is among the strongest a person can experience.

So I get that.

But I wonder if a WS lack of love for themselves (or waning of love for themselves) is the stronger emotion at play here? Selfishness does not equal love for oneself. Selfishness is a natural emotion, love for oneself is not a natural is developed over time through ones actions and experiences.

IF the M the fWS was a partner in was so painful, hurtful, toxic, abusive....wouldn't a person who loved themselves react in an honorable way before choosing adultery? Such as suggesting counseling, expressing honestly what is troubling them about the M, or simply announce they are going to file for D BEFORE they seek another mate? (this supports the true statement that the WS affair is NOT about the BS).

Perhaps WS lack of love for themselves tells them that they themselves are not lovable...but that thought doesn't sit well with they escape their own thoughts into an A. In an A, an external source is telling them they ARE wonderful. This stimulation combined with the hormones exuded by a body during the first sexual encounters with a new person propel a WS into adultery....with the very real feeling of...AAAAHHHH, so this is what I was missing! See, I knew it wasn't me!!! Even if a BS is telling this to their WS pre-A, it could fall on deaf ears if the WS discounts this attention in much the same way our children discount parents love...kind of, Of Course You Say That...You Have To, You Are Married To Me....sort of way. Or maybe their FOO issues kept them from accepting that they can be loved and the excitement of the forbidden love of an A simply overrides this FOO established bias?

How did I develop this theory? Lots of IC sessions that focused on Does Blakesteele Love Blakesteele? It was an eye opening that I did not find very flattering to Blakesteele...but made some square pieces fit into round holes at the end of it.

I also have the rare but deep conversations with my Mom who divorced 30 years ago...and is just now starting to really think about her role in my parents M and D. And lots of reading.

I don't profess that this is accurate or is just a thought I have pieced together as I try in vane to make sense of a senseless situation.

If this theory is somewhat correct....the realization fWS go through after their A, the realization that their own choices have so deeply hurt themselves, spouses, children, that it will take even more effort to rebuild that love for themselves....right?

Either way, this is a tough row to hoe. Working towards a healthy marriage is tough regardless of the situation. Adultery sure increases the workload exponentially.

Have thought more then once how much easier building a healthy marriage would be had we not started from such a deficit position.

God help us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 8:16 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

Ostrich80 posted 10/14/2013 19:53 PM

I read a story where a young man s fiance found out she had cancer. He stayed with her to the end and their wedding was 4 days before she died. Stories like that get me so emotional because I don't know what that's like,to have someone love you in such a manner. I used to think he would take a bullet for me, not now, no way.

hobbeskat posted 10/14/2013 19:59 PM

I have a remorseful spouse who is doing everything right. Yet I still think like this sometimes. It is crap.

blakesteele posted 10/14/2013 20:20 PM

For the record...their is no doubt that my wife would have been at my bedside up until my death within the first few years of our marriage. I don't mean to take away from the touching and real stories of young love that ended too early....just saying that within the first few months or even years of a M, most people would stick by their mate.

For the record, I believe my wife would have stuck by her AP if he lay dying back in not sure that is a real testament to true, mature love. Think that more like the easy, romantic type of love we all experienced in high school and early days of dating our spouses.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 8:23 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

HeartInADustpan posted 10/14/2013 20:31 PM

5 months after I got married, my husband was having an affair.

I'm right there with you except mine didn't even wait 5 months. His vows should have been "in sickness, health, richer, poorer, I will cheat on you." At least that would have been true.

I share your fear. I'm so sorry you're hurting.

blakesteele posted 10/14/2013 20:40 PM

Dang heartinadustpan...kind of throws my Romantic Love theory all to hell....sorry for your pain, and my brashness in my post.

God be with us all.

p.s. I do like your tagline...Mark Twain is among my favorite authors!

[This message edited by blakesteele at 8:40 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

blakesteele posted 10/14/2013 20:46 PM

Ostrich80...just read about the type of OW your husband had an affair with. I work with a guy, who I will call Tom, who prides himself on laying half of the moms on his sons baseball team...some of them were divorcees, but most were married. Tom got beat up pretty bad by one of the husbands, Toms son is aware of his fathers actions...yet Tom continues to do what he has always done. These are the exception to the rule of most WS. There are real predators out there...M and W. Don't know what type of guy my wifes AP was, but it is reported by my pastor that he is onto another woman now...

I work in a profession that reacts to major storm events when they hit the U.S. Over half of the wives of the men I work with forbid their husbands for going on storm work if it means they work with Tom...and most of the guys I work with don't like Tom either. So there are plenty of good men out there who DONT envy or worship Toms actions. Maybe in high school laying a bunch of different women was cool but, thankfully, the majority of men I work with have grown out of this immature behavior.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 8:50 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

pjkmkjm23 posted 10/14/2013 23:54 PM

Hobbeskat: what a thought-provoking thread you started....Ty very much!


"Philosophically...maybe the question isn't if they loved their BS enough, maybe it was that they didn't love themselves enough. ..."

For almost a year and a half now I haven't been able to stop myself from reading here and other places, books, etc. so much all in hopes of trying to figure out what happened to my ex to seemingly so suddenly turn off her love for me and give it to someone else, and to never even glance back about it either! I subscribed to the fog theory for awhile but mostly have given up on it now. I really haven't been able to apply my ex's behavior and decisions to any one theory, type of A, or even some kind of mental disorder...and that's been driving me crazy because I like to understand things....and this....well, there's just been no wrapping my head around it....until now, maybe....thanks to you Blakesteele!!!

What you described fits the ex to the letter! She's never been one for expressing emotions or feelings or what have you...and I could probably count on one hand the number of times I ever even seen her cry....but on DDay when we were having what turned out to be our last, and rare nonetheless too, open and honest discussion about our feelings....and trust me...this was pretty heated too...she suddenly started to cry and blurted out to me something to the effect that 'I hate myself, I've hated myself for a long time...and I don't know how to fix that. I need to learn how to love myself!'!

That stopped me dead in my tracks right there. I was caught off guard and didn't know what to say. I never knew my then wife ever felt that way about herself and always thought she was a happy person, and because everyone else seemed to love her it never even crossed my mind that she wouldn't love herself too. And she's never been an introspective person either so that blew me away too...and has always stuck with me since she said that. I've always wondered if the A and everything since then has to do with that declaration.

Reading your theory has for the first time somewhat illuminated what my ex has been going through and possibly explains why she's doing everything that seems so out of character for her. I don't know why but it gives me comfort to finally feel like I can have some kind of understanding. It's to late for us, to much damage has been done....but if someday her and I are ever on speaking terms or even somewhat friendly again and all of this comes us I may bring this up to her along with recommendations for IC. Despite everything she's done to me, some of it very cruel, she is the mother of my children and I don't want to see her live a miserable life for the rest of her days bouncing from R to R all while continuing to "hate herself".

Sorry for the long post and the t/j Hobbeskat. I just really wanted to let Blakesteele know how profound his theory is to me and how appreciative I am to the both of you for this thread. Thank you

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