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When a WS has been found out, and they want to reconcile...why do they continue to try and lie? What is it about lying? Does it provide a rush? Are they so used to it, it is habit? And how do we convey that it's the lies (after a point) that can be the most harmful thing to recover from?

That baffles me too. It could be that lying comes so naturally to someone that it's just their character to lie. (H is a compulsive liar to begin with).

Others may continue to lie because of fear of deep truths coming out which they may have not told you about, though they claim they 'told you everything'.

I just think that, no matter what they're told to the contrary, they believe they are, 1) doing us a favor, and 2) covering their own butts.

They know all the facts, and they have already decided what is relevant and what is not. If they think something is a non-issue, then why muddy the water with something like details that will only burden us, or something that might make them look bad?

I think they firmly believe that if they've confessed the big things, then the lesser stuff doesn't really matter.

I am 4+ years out from DDay, and EVERY time a lie has been newly uncovered, she has sworn that it is the final lie, and that there is nothing else still to be uncovered. EVERY time that has just been one more lie to add to the list. Even now, I know of things she has lied about, and I can't even figure out why, but she has.

Ditto WhiteCarrera. But I believe it's mostly to cover their butts than doing us a favor.

Mostly, from what I know, people lie to protect themselves from the backlash of telling the truth.

They lie to look good, to either gain something (like your good will or to gain social standing) or to avoid punishment or reprisal or discomfort.

They lie because they can. They lie in the hopes that we'll be satisfied and that we won't ask more questions.

They continue to lie because they are more interested in protecting themselves than getting to the truth and healing.

A WS that claims to want R, but continues to be dishonest doesn't have the right to ask for R.

Until they get it, put your feelings and well-being above their own comfort, R isn't even really on the table.

My wxh lied so much that he didn't know what the truth was.

Therefore, I took the worst possible scenario and believed that.

Game over.

Ah, this post totally got my attention. I'm dealing with this right now. Now 9 years of lying.

I think WhiteCarrera has nailed it, at least for how I see it with my husband.

He has always thought he knows better. About that and all sorts of other things. He STILL isn't sure it would help if I knew all. Doesn't matter that I flat out say it's what I need.

It's truly baffling. I guess it's a clusterf**k of thinking they know what we need, being embarassed, worrying that we will finally leave if we know it all and maybe just being assholes on some level (as was suggested to me about my husband)

Yep, it's all that, especially the asshole part. Why would someone not just give it all up if that is what their partner wants? Why hold something back if they really want to make it work.

Ok, I need to take a deep breath. This topic really works me up!

XPervert said to me once, "It just got so easy! You'd just nod at me and off I'd go-one lie after another!"

Well, sometimes I knew he lied. Sometimes I found out he lied. But when someone is making fights right and left when you confront a lie, why continue to confront them?

This, FWIW, was one of my clues on the red flag of realization that R was actually...false.

I think it is (1) fear and (2) habit. They have a way of relating to the world where lying has become acceptable. They barely know its wrong. They have done it for so long they barely notice they've done it till it's too late and they've dug another hole they think they can only fix with more lies. I'm not saying this is ok, it's not, but it may take a lot of work to fix.

Then they also are desperate at first, they think they are about to lose the things they really love, their partner, children, home, jobs. Instead of taking the simple route of telling the truth, because they are so used to telling lies already, they think that will be simpler and then they will say whatever they gave to to survive and they don't realise until it's too late the irreparable damage that continuing to lie will cause.

I think this phase can take a year or two, depending on how long it takes the WS to take responsibility. To start to actually try to change. My H appeared to be the poster boy for doing all the right things and he behaved like a total cock actually and kept the lies going for at least a year. Not the A but stupid things. He clearly couldn't break the habit or see the truth would be easier in the long run.

Now a person who is still lying after 9 years, I'm not sure they've ever faced up and tried to break the habit?

[This message edited by Kiwigirl at 3:09 PM, October 16th (Wednesday)]

I think every WS and every situation is different. In my case my wh lied about huge details ( using protection, how many times they had sex, a gift he gave her etc..) when I finally got the truth I asked him why he made me dig for the truth and couldn't just tell me everything on day1. He said "doing" those things were easy. He didn't think about consequences, he compartamentalized. But having to look at the person you love more than anything and " tell" them all the horrible details and watch the hurt it causes is the worst thing he's ever bad to do in his life. He didn't want me knowing exactly how disgusting he was because he was scared I would never love him the same again. I get his reasons but I made sure he now understands lying as much as cheating is now a deal breaker for me.

They continue to lie because liars lie.
It's what they do, it is a core competency.

They can't possibly remember all their lies and so, every so often, year in, year out another pathetic, twisted, nonsensical fallacy is revealed.
Truth is an anathema to them; it would expose their true souls.
I no longer listen to words...I just watch actions. Very little communication is verbal, I watch body language and facial expressions. These demonstrate the truth even when the sounds are lies.

My WH says he lies because he knows how mad I will get... Not an excuse. Cause in order for healing to take place the lies have to stop. I always say, I would rather be told a hurtful truth than a lie!

A brilliant phrase that sums it up from Truly - lying is a core competency. My WW says she does not/did not like lying, so was careful to avoid telling me anything about what she had done during the day. And that's not lying, apparently. Delusional or what? (No, I know: A core competency).

Six years out and I'm pretty sure my H lies because:

1. He is a controlling abusive man
2. He is trying to hide his core issues (he either is or is almost a BPD/NPD/Psychopath) but failing miserably
3. To manipulate the outcome

I am fighting back finally, so once he runs through his old bag of tricks to get out of telling me the truth and sees they are no longer placating me, he has taken to Stonewalling me. It's disgusting what some people will do to another person they claim to love and care about. When it really matters, his words mean nothing to me, his every action screams the truth and I'm listening now.

I know all situations are different, and that all W/FW are different, but this is why my H still lies while claiming he wants this marriage. Which I guess technically isn't a lie, he does want this marriage, just a disgusting version that suits his needs and hurts me...

Thanks but no thanks!

Honestly I think mine lies because he doesn't know what part of it I discover will be the final straw and Ill leave. He must forget Im pretty darn good at finding out information when I want to and I have the training/experience to as well.

Basically CYA- cover your ass- as my Dad use to say. They don't think they will be found out either.

I think mine lies because he honestly believes he will get away with. He must think I am pretty stupid, to believe all of the lies he has told me.

White, what you said about WS knowing exactly what happened during the A, and now choosing what is relevant to tell or not tell, is spot on. In my situation, at least, WS still is in control until he comes clean on everything.

I agree with everything that has been said here.

I think in my H's case, lying in its many forms (bare-faced lies, omission, twisting of facts, memory loss, denial, believing his own lies)has been part of his coping mechanism for so long that it has become an established part of his character.

I am positive that there are still things that he has not (and will not) own up to - things that happened before I discovered his A. I think in his mind, they are inconsequential. And because he has managed to deny and persuade me that my doubts are unfounded, for so many years now - and because what has happened since (the A) is THE issue to be resolved - he will never own up to any misdemeanours that may have occurred earlier in our relationship. As WhiteCarrera said:

I think they firmly believe that if they've confessed the big things, then the lesser stuff doesn't really matter

Maybe my H he has been telling the truth on those other things - maybe there were no previous misdemeanours. But once someone has proven to be a liar, I really don't know how you can ever 100% believe anything they say any more. Especially if they haven't received counselling/therapy to deal with their issues.

However, I also think that one of the major factors that cause people to lie (especially in my H's case) is that they simply cannot face the truth themselves. I think my H's ego stands in the way of him truly facing the person he really is.

For my spouse he lied because hey that was natural for him it was who he was. You lie enough as they get older they believe it
So if you dont get your answer you never will from them.
They lievso in time the lie is what happened not reality. Some messed up crap!

I think some of them lie because that's part of them....part of their core being. They don't get that telling lies is worse than telling the truth.
It may be that somewhere/sometime in their childhood, telling lies worked for them and they continue to do it. I think eventually, they actually believe their own lies.

I've been told contradictory things in the same sentence!!They should be politicians!!

Bold face lies are the worst. Phone rings...ask who is it....told "it's my mother"....when actually its the OW....how crazy is that??

It gets to the point where the lies are so obvious, you have to laugh.....I mean really....do you expect anyone to believe that??