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Momof3under3 posted 10/16/2013 14:43 PM

I hope you don't mind but I'm cut and pasting this from another (non relationship) board. They sent me here. You all have been so helpful. I thank you! i feel like there are some basics that I should be following. I read the 180 and ironically I have already been doing them. I feel like I'm just so done with all the crap that I don't care to be any different. I also want to know how I can find an ic who specializes in affairs? We had gone to counseling in the past and while she was very nice and was somewhat helpful in other areas, I always felt that she didn't address the affair. She did the whole "there is something wrong with the marriage, affairs are just a symptom" routine. Finally, i asked him to move out and he wont. what do you think of this. he says he wants to r and he doesnt see it happening if he moves out. Again, your help is appreciated.

Here's the c/p:

I am married with 3 kids under 4 yo. DH is helpful with the kids, bathes them, cooks more than I do, does all the outside work including an in ground pool and an acre of landscaped property. He's not into playing video games or gambling. Doesn't smoke, has never even tried a drug in his life. He spends prob $50 a week on crap so isn't a big spender. Works like he's supposed to, direct deposits his check, we have a net worth near $600,000.

he drinks in excess from time to time (2 times a month) which cause blow outs every 6 months Or so (the rest I just tell him to sleep downstairs and he does), and drinks socially another 2x per week, which I'm ok with the social but don't like the excess bc we've had some nasty fights. Both his parents were or are alcoholics (mil does the whole "I have a drink to go to sleep" but doesn't ever drink during the day or evening even if out to dinner or at a party. while I grew up in a "normal" drinking family it bothers me that his family are prone to addiction (his father by the way hasn't drank in 5 years.)

Next issue....he's always been flirtatious. This has lead to many problems especially when he's been drinking. He cheated on me in 2007. Claims it was a ons but he was flirty friends for months before. He did cut contact after and we spent 5 years in counseling. He made some improvements but there were many bumps in the road, most involving drinking and girls. I have had suspicions about other girls but no proof that anything has happened. He has definitely crossed the line of appropriate.... some girl sent him a pic of her boobs in a tanktop...covered but still inappropriate none the less...he asked a girl on a text "what are you wearing"...the like...but im not sure if he did anything. He admits these are inappropriate but says he never did anything physical. I feel like i can never let my guard down though.

Current issue....when iPhones update came out he updated his phone and all his iPhone messages started coming onto my ipad.....I let it be to see if I'm crazy like he says or what. Well, this "newest" girl is texting him incessantly and he responds some of the time and twice in 2 weeks written questionable things. I interpreted them as sexual and or showing that something has gone on in the past. My friend said I'm right to question it but he could be just blowing smoke up her ass..

The next day I posted this....
I confronted him this evening and he told me that he had 2 encounters with the current girl 4 weeks ago and 8 weeks ago (oral sex). I am devistated. He called her in front of me and told her that he told me and it was over with them. They can't talk bla bla bla. I confronted him about other suspicions and some things he came clean on from years ago and others he said never happened. Nothing was revealed since the ons 6 years ago, but I'm not minimizing that he's a horrible husband. I told him I want him to move out for a few months and he's adamant he won't. I'm going to seek out a councelor for myself and legal advice. I'm not sure where it will take me but I need a clearer head. Thanks for all your advice.

SerJR posted 10/16/2013 16:26 PM

Welcome here, little sister...

I'm sorry for what has happened, but I'm glad that you are seeking help.

It sounds like your WH has a bit of an addictive personality and maybe gets a thrill out of the conquest. He's been caught a few times, and just returns to the game. I get the impression he probably feels he's entitled to this and it feeds his ego. He has you for support and security and the excitement with his playtime activities.

I'm not surprised he's not wanting to move out. If my above suspicions are true, then he probably also does not like failure or dealing with consequences.

I think that the 180 is definitely something you should be putting into practise. You need to also make it consistently clear that there are consequences to his choices - point out what will logically follow from his actions. Keep calm and collected while doing this, and let him know what will happen if his behaviour continues and be willing to back up your words with action. And stick to the topic when he tries to minimise, charm, deny, or attack his way out. Let him know you want to see changed behaviour, over the long term. And throw it back to him and ask him what he's going to do.

To reconcile after infidelity, the WS must be remorseful, take responsibility for their choices and the consequences thereof, recognise the pain he caused you, understand why he felt his behaviour was acceptable, put an action plan in place to ensure it doesn't happen again, and actively try to make amends to the marriage and rebuild upon trust and honesty, all while being able to demonstrate this to you.

I suggest you consult a lawyer to find out what rights you have. It doesn't mean you have to divorce, just that you're educating yourself. I suggest you also check with a doctor if you haven't already. And seeking counseling is good too if you can find a decent one. (FWIW, a bad marriage doesn't cause an affair... affairs cause a bad marriage).

You have rights and it is your right as to whether you want to reconcile, separate, or divorce. Don't let him take your power away.

Momof3under3 posted 10/16/2013 16:54 PM

Thx ser....
You are on target about his personality. He comes from it and I have always maintained that he should be aware of his habits. I don't know that he's an alcoholic per say but when he drinks it changes him to a point that he should at least recognize that. He maintains (as of 2 nights ago) that he is stopping drinking and "you were right all along." He also says he wants to go to church again. He had a strong religious upbringing but as an adult let it go by the wayside.

Is there any way I can convince him that what I need right now is for him to be gone for a while? We have been cohabitating with him in the downstairs guest room.

SerJR posted 10/16/2013 19:56 PM

Well, there's two approaches to that.

Step 1, would be to ask him. Tell him that you are feeling confused and frustrated and that you feel you need space to work through this. Tell him that you would like him to respect your need for space while you try to process through and collect yourself.

He may or may not agree. His attitude will tell you a lot too (ie - is he dismissing your feelings?).

Step 2, all depends on how the legal system operates where you're from. I would suggest consulting a lawyer to find out what options you have. You may not be legally able to kick him out or change the locks or anything like that, but you can yourself consider moving out with the children if there's avenues available.

Unfortunately, there is no way to convince him. All you can do is express your needs, and if he fails to listen, then you can only accept that or enforce the harder consequence.

headdesk posted 10/17/2013 00:38 AM

The drinking reads much like the situation with my WH and myself - he was binge drinking with the same regularity and was being an utter jerk because of it. FYI...that's alcoholism. It's a big screaming sign that says something is up with that. I did go to an alanon group and had some good info and support there. They have good web info/questionnaires too.

The other thing, even if you're maybe not able to kick him out or move out yourself, you can still 'in house' separate. At this time I still need my 'sanctuary' of space where I can go if I need to and he's not allowed in. As such he moved downstairs. He has agreed to not come into our bedroom or ensuite until a time where I am comfortable having him there. It's another thing to ponder over. Move stuff when he's at work if necessary. If you can legally kick him out and he won't go changing the locks and hefty bagging his stuff on the lawn while he's at work can work too.

I'd talk to a therapist or dr to see if the drinking is linked to A's as well.

Hugs. :(

tushnurse posted 10/17/2013 08:52 AM

Welcome Mom - I see a pattern of behavior in him that is disturbing. HE is drinking too much, he has been unfaithful before, and is engaging in behavior that is questionable at best. (Personally I would call cheating, since he is hiding it from you, and is not a way he should be behaving) He has managed to minimize things, and blow smoke to the point where you question your own personal judgement.

Take a step back and try to look at this as an outsider. Now is his behavior acceptable? Whe you R'd from his first A, did he fundamentally change, or just tolerate the new rules that were put in place to keep it from happening again?

Does he own what he has been up to this time? If not then I say you are doomed for repeat behavior again and again. He has to get what he is doing is wrong, was wrong, and is horribly hurtful to you, your marriage, and is creating an unhealthy marriage for your kids to emulate from.

So great he gets that he needs to do something or he is going to out on his ear. But will it be enough? Only he can decide that.

My recommendation to you is to maintain in house seperation until you really see him doing the hard work. See an attorney and find out what your rights are. Listen if this is a deal breaker for you, then it's a deal breaker, and there is no shame in that. If my H EVER cheated again I would be done, not even question it. He'd find his shit in trashbags, the locks changed, and his toys for sale in the front yard.

Sit down and figure out what you really want, and what you need. Get yourself to an IC, to work toward getting yourself stronger, and finding you again. When you become a mom, and have back to back to back kiddos, you tend to loose who you are, and that's how motherhood is supposed to work, but now it's time to focus on you. You have to put yourself and your kids first.

In addition to the above things, please go get yourself STD tested, just to be safe, and talk with your Dr. about the stress in your life at present time, and get a little pharmaceutical support if needed in these early stages. Sleep, eat, stay hydrated, these are essential to clear thinking and making good choices.

Lastly since his behavior is a bit from one extreme to the other, I would strongly recommend stashing some cash, just in case. You never know what is going to happen, and if you don't have go money as I liked to call it, you should. Enough to take care of yourself and your kids for a few weeks. You never know what he is going to do. If you start playing hard ball, you needed to protect yourself.

((((and strength))))

Momof3under3 posted 10/20/2013 12:41 PM

To answer some questions...
I did see a lawyer fri to get info. Definitely informative. We have been doing our own thing for this past week since d day. He tells me he's willing to do whatever it takes. He says he's going to stop drinking and wants to go to church (I've asked for years to go but we never do. He brought the kids today alone. ). I still need to find an ic but don't even know where to get one that does "affairs." I don't want to go to a generic ic bc they seem o just want o "find the problem in the marriage." Any advice on that front?

Momof3under3 posted 10/20/2013 12:42 PM

He also has an appt tomorrow with an ic. She's actually our mc from 2 years ago.

Drowninginitall posted 10/21/2013 11:15 AM

I'm sorry you're finding yourself here. I got lucky with my councilor in that she is married to an alcoholic with over 20 years sobriety, and specializes in marriage issues. These things related to my situation.
I was able to find her through some kind of search I did online that listed some of ghee specialties. I found a little more about her by discussing my situation over the phone before making the first appointment. I would spend some time calling a few counselors and asking if they specialize in any of the issues that you would need. Good luck on this journey.

angerisme posted 10/21/2013 11:42 AM

Hello Mom
You are with the right group of people for support and help. you MUST get a lawyer ASAP without WH knowing!!!!

The lawyer will give you knowledge, UNEMOTIONAL knowledge that will help you plan. I am somewhat different than many here. I have discoveered I am married to a serial cheater however we have been married 25 years and our kids are grown or in high school. I have a terminal degree and husband makes tons of money. I stopped having sex 3 yrs ago for my safety. I also began socking $$$ away, bought new car, taking all my vacations to things I want to see. I am waiting on daught to graduate. By then I will have plenty of cash he does NOT know about (it is all in an acct w my Dad's name) a paid of nice car and no more "wishes" for travel. I came to the conclusions FOR ME that it was better to stay as long as my conditions were met. NO sex, NO fighting, NO questions. I did not want my daughter getting to know all of his floozies. I did not want her exposed to the drinking he does when he is not with me. I did not understand why I would have to reduce my standard of living just because he is immoral.

Me and my lawyer worked out a plan that has really been good for ME and my daughter; however, I have interests other than dating and sex

I finished my terminal degree, have started a business, socking lots of hidden dollars, new cars paid off, and paying off my house. The point is...we are all in the same situation with different conditions. I have heard of people being separated in the same house because there is no way to afford living apart. YOU WILL EVENTUALLY MAKE THE DECISION THAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU...for now...1. Lawyer up, 2. hide money, 3. information gathering to protect you in court, 4. prepare for a future without the weasel in your life

You are in my prayers.

Momof3under3 posted 10/21/2013 12:06 PM

Sorry, anger, I can't say I agree or will listen to your advice. Socking money away is not at all where I am. I'm pretty sure it's illegal too but that's not my expertise. Your post makes it seem like I have no money and/or career. I am quite the contrary. You seem like you have this master plan but there is so much anger that i wonder if you'd be ale to enact it and actually move on. Regardless, thanks for taking to time to post your opinions.

As for others, I have had a consultation with an attorney. Last Friday. I got the info I needed and she was very informative and honest.

I'm asking here for help in finding a therapist who deals with affairs. Is that even an option?

I am going to call one locally to chat in a few minutes.

Ashland13 posted 10/21/2013 12:20 PM

I'm sorry, momof3under3.

The IC question isn't easy and it's my opinion that they have to be tried in order to find out. Even if they say in the phone book that they are affair counselors, they may not be what you want.

I had one we went to separately who gave the line, "An affair is a symptom." So I stopped going to her after a while because she was dissecting me but then I found out he was filling her with lies about me.

An IC that's "good", in my opinion, will be not only validating, but challenge you. If I said something to the last one I had she would usually give two responses: to pat me on the back or to question. The questioning was to get me to think further when I wouldn't dare myself. She helped validate my feelings and helped me navigate through the lies he told and the confusion he created for me. This is what I believe a good one does.

She also reduced my fee drastically and genuinely wanted to help. She was plainly dressed and her car was not flashy; first one, mc drove a flashy car and lots of flashy clothing and jewelry. Not a very low rate.

I find these differences in many types of business people and don't know if it will help you, but it helped me to measure what I thought of them. I see this with the lawyers as we go to divorce.

My Xhusband's parents were both alcoholics and he is dry, but grew up with it as part of the culture of their house. ETA that his vice is sex, but he hid it for our entire relationship. I don't even know him or relate to him now, after 20 years.

He also uses his phone and electronics for the sex stuff and I felt like you do until he left, that I couldn't let my guard down when he was present-two years later, I still feel that.

Again I'm sorry for your discoveries about your husband, for I found it one of the most painful experiences in my whole entire life. People expected me to leave him immediately, but without all the information, I was not ready. I, like you, wanted more definite answers, though when they came, they sent me to hell and back and I am still on the recovery road.

I wish you peace and a quiet moment between snack time and diapers. I have a newborn and 11 year old and am thrust into single parenthood.

[This message edited by Ashland13 at 12:22 PM, October 21st (Monday)]

angerisme posted 10/21/2013 12:32 PM

Ashland is correct about "counselors" Unscrupulous ones will say specializing in Infidelity, marriage, autism, and children. WRONG!!! Given the difficult situation in which you find yourself, please find a psychologist. Training for counselor is 32 college hours (10 classes). A psychologist generally earns more than 300 college hours (100 courses) over 4 years and daily work with practicing psychologists. There is no comparison. You need someone who has additional information about services of support for you and small children as well as getting you healing and moving forward in life.

Counselors are amazing and a great help after the initial trauma has subsided. With 2 small babies you can not afford a nervous breakdown sweetie. Get a psych and make some plans that do NOT include WH. Also, stay in touch with other young mothers on SI...they will be invaluable!

doggiediva posted 10/21/2013 12:46 PM

Just my opinions here...

I think everybody should have their own personal savings account..

I don't think it is illegal for your mom or dad to have an account that you deposit money into so that this money is protected and inaccessible by your WH. ..

If it turns out that you never need the money to leave the marriage and rebuild your own life than maybe that money can be willed to your kids someday..

@angerisme, I may be wrong but I would think that starting and maintaining a business while M makes the business common property of the marriage unless there is a post nup in place to address this..
I am sorry, I digress..
Finding a good therapist ( IC or MC) who deals with infidelity isn't easy, that's for sure..
I had to meet the therapist I was interested in and talk to him/her in person before I decided who was right for me..
I was lucky in that I had an employee assistance program in place..I was able to shop for therapists without it costing an arm and a leg...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 1:02 PM, October 21st (Monday)]

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