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After 8 hours of Mediation and 3 Hours in Pretrial

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Elaine2012 posted 10/16/2013 17:40 PM

This is what I have regarding a some of the settlement proposal. I listed what he is saying and my response to my L is in bold. Am I being unreasonable in what I need to get by? We have been married 35 years and I was a SHAM for many years and worked PT which was fine with him until it wasn't!

1. The boat and jewelry would be listed as $00 on the asset balance sheet. Only if the jewelry is listed to XXX (which would equalize the $$ amount of claims). Would this even matter is both are listed at $00?

He didn't do much upkeep on the house and now he wants to put out money that we don't have to get the house ready to sell. I'm just want it sold so this can be done. Meanwhile he lives in the house and I live with a friend.

2.The house sale proceeds would be paid as follows: From the sale price would be first deducted, cost of sale, payment of mortgage balance, reimburse Mr. "opposing" for reduction in the principle balance from March 15, 2013, (listed on Asset balance sheet) to the date of sale, Mr. "opposing"will not pursue his non-marital interest (which he had no proof of anyway)in the house, each party will be reimbursed for any out of pocket costs for repairs to the house made to get it ready for sale that are agreed upon or approved by Realtor and both home depot charge cards will be paid in full. From the remaining balance, each party will receive Ĺ. From Mr. "opposing's" one-half, he will pay your client the sum of $XXXX as a property settlement equalizer payment. I'm having a contractor I know give me a rough estimate on what these repairs could cost. It might not be cost effective to spend this money will we be It seems like this is a stall tactic on selling the house. If he has this kind of money to fix the house then he has some money to pay me more. I donít agree to put any more money into the house until it sells and an inspection is done then those would be what needs to be fixed.

3.There will be no additional credit given for the conditional student loan debt on the asset balance sheet.
I'm currently making payments on DD student loan because I'm the cosigner and her income is pretty low.
She isn't in school so she can't defer her loan. This was red lined from my budget as well as tithing.

4. Each party will pay his or her own attorneyís fees

5.Mr. "opposing's" will pay Ms. Elaine monthly modifiable *spousal maintenance of $xxx.00 per month until his death, her death, her remarriage or further order of the Court, whichever comes first. I need you to provide the gross income numbers you used for your client in deriving her net income. I know you acknowledge a combined (I work 5 jobs) gross income of $XXXX but we need to identify them individually. I donít agree to this amount of money. I am asking for XXXX (this is a number that the mediator came up with after looking at our incomes and budgets) a month based on what the financial planner said. Which is that the money that he is offering does not cover my reasonable budget. It would put me below poverty level. If he is going to red line items on my budget then I think I need to look over his budget and do the same. Since I will have to pay taxes on the money I receive this will allow me to pay my bills. I would think Mr. "opposing"is aware that he will have a tax write off for the spousal maintenance that he will pay.

I'm asking for temporary SM to be paid from May until I begin receiving said monies. I haven't received any money from him in 15 months.

I want a Karon Waiver in place so that he canít modify *SM because I believe he will try and modify it in the future. If he wants to have a modifiable one then I will be able to look at his future earnings and when he is starts working overtime again (he quit all OT when I caught him cheating and he said he didn't want to be married anymore) then we can modify SM for more money to me.

6.Mr. "opposing" will name your client as the beneficiary of his life insurance available through his work in the amount of $10,000 for so long as he has an obligation of spousal maintenance or so long as the insurance is available to him through his employment at no cost to him, whichever comes first.

heartache101 posted 10/16/2013 17:53 PM

I think you should of changed the life insurance clause to 10 x the annual amount in case he dies you are taken care of. JMO.

Nature_Girl posted 10/16/2013 18:44 PM

Change the life insurance policy thing so that if he keels over the day after the decree is final, you'll get the cumulative amount he would have paid over the years. Also add to the life insurance thing some provision for paying for the kids' college.

SS is very tricky. On one hand you're fortunate that you have wording to indicate it can be for the rest of your life. Most of us don't get that (this would include me). On the other hand, you don't want to just be getting a pittance for a 35-year marriage. If he insists on a pittance amount, I wonder if you could ask for a large lump sum instead?

macakipa posted 10/16/2013 20:04 PM

I want a Karon Waiver in place so that he canít modify *SM because I believe he will try and modify it in the future.

Good idea.

If he wants to have a modifiable one then I will be able to look at his future earnings and when he is starts working overtime again (he quit all OT when I caught him cheating and he said he didn't want to be married anymore) then we can modify SM for more money to me.

Not sure how the judge/court would rule on this. My understanding is that a modifiable agreement on spousal maintenance allows for a request in a decrease in payment amounts not an increase. I don't think your bringing up his frequent working of overtime in the past would work here?

eta: fixed a train of thought

[This message edited by macakipa at 8:05 PM, October 16th (Wednesday)]

Take2 posted 10/16/2013 20:19 PM

reimburse Mr. "opposing" for reduction in the principle balance from March 15, 2013, (listed on Asset balance sheet) to the date of sale,

I received exclusive use of the home during S - I also had to pay all the expenses (mort. ins. taxes, utilities....) and was not reimbursed. It was deemed so because I had the privilege of the exclusive use of the house at that time. I'm in MA. I recommend you make that same argument - he has exclusive use and the tax write offs. Note: the write offs maybe viewed as alimony (which you would have to claim) unless it is written up as "not alimony".

now he wants to put out money that we don't have to get the house ready to
sell.

Short answer: NO. Especialydue to the "OR" approved by a realtor... no limit there! It is the OR that bothers me... too open ended. I would refuse this. I was also responsible for regular maintenance -- nothing major (ie: major appliances, furnace roof....) but any and all other maintenance issues.
And who knows what your STBX currently has or soon will have on the Home Depot Credit Cards.... the wording is too vague and easily abused in this area.

Wording on the insurance sucks... but another issue - you won't know if he defaults on it,or changes it (until it is too late.)

dmari posted 10/16/2013 20:39 PM

6.Mr. "opposing" will name your client as the beneficiary of his life insurance available through his work in the amount of $10,000 for so long as he has an obligation of spousal maintenance or so long as the insurance is available to him through his employment at no cost to him, whichever comes first.
Did you mean $100,000? I hope it was a typo. If it wasn't, then $10,000 sound real low.

Good luck Elaine2012!!

Dreamboat posted 10/16/2013 20:57 PM

Change the life insurance policy thing so that if he keels over the day after the decree is final, you'll get the cumulative amount he would have paid over the years. Also add to the life insurance thing some provision for paying for the kids' college.

This^^^

Also, he should be responsible for 1/2 of DD's student loan, unless there is some mitigating cirumstance to why he should not be equally responsible for his child's education.

Jewelry is often considered a gift. Just sayin'

No go on house repairs. They need to be agreed upon by BOTH spouses, period. Especially if he is living in the house. What if he decides to install a luxury master bath and then continues to live there and ruins it? On one hand, upgrading a house can make it sell more quickly and sometimes for more. On the other hand, if you don't care how long it takes to sell then no repairs may be needed, other than those found by a home inspector.

If I were you I would try to get him to pay a portion of your L fees. Especially since he is being a dick in mediation.

Do not take less than you deserve for SS. If he is offering you a pitiful sum then consider taking your chances with the judge. Also, consider asking him to pay for you to get some training to get a better job.

I am no expert here. I walked away from my M with just CS and a huge amount of debt that I did not know about. But then I also made more than my X and had an establish career when he left. You and your X made the decision together (I am assuming) that you would be the caretaker of the kids and home. And now he wants to leave you high and dry. THAT is just not right!!! I am sure if you had know he would end up cheating and then trying to screw you over financially you would have made very different decisions over the last 20-30 years. It is not fair that he suddenly changed the rules of the game at this late stage.

(((hugs)))

Elaine2012 posted 10/16/2013 22:20 PM

Thank you so much for the responses I really appreciate them.

When I said he maintains a life ins policy the mediator said it would cost him to much since he is older. So that was nipped in the bud. He has life through work for 20,000. So Dmari that wasn't a typo he wants to leave 10,000 (to I don't know who) so there is money "to bury his ass" as the mediator put it.

Nature_Girl SS would end when he he retires. And I was supposed to agree that "it was reasonable for him to retire at 62". Yeah and I get to work until I drop dead.

On one hand you're fortunate that you have wording to indicate it can be for the rest of your life.
And if he could keel over before the decree is signed...

Regarding student loans he has fought me long and hard and refuses to do anything toward them because they are the girls obligation and "they should be paying them". I've been paying on the one loan for a year and he didn't believe me that I was paying it. Even after DD told him I was.

macakipa this is what I thought but it seems to be that modifiable should be able to go either way.

My understanding is that a modifiable agreement on spousal maintenance allows for a request in a decrease in payment amounts not an increase.

Take2 this is a very good point and I will address this in my response.

I received exclusive use of the home during S - I also had to pay all the expenses (mort. ins. taxes, utilities....) and was not reimbursed. It was deemed so because I had the privilege of the exclusive use of the house at that time.

now he wants to put out money that we don't have to get the house ready to
sell.

Short answer: NO. Especialydue to the "OR" approved by a realtor... no limit there! It is the OR that bothers me... too open ended. I would refuse this. I was also responsible for regular maintenance -- nothing major (ie: major appliances, furnace roof....) but any and all other maintenance issues.
And who knows what your STBX currently has or soon will have on the Home Depot Credit Cards.... the wording is too vague and easily abused in this area.

The or bothered me as well. The reason there are 2 Home Depot cards is one was joint which I cancelled so that he couldn't run up the bill exactly as I thought he would and did to the one that he then opened in his name only.

I'm a little discouraged because my L told me that i need to seriously consider this offer. The man makes way more than I do and he is worried how he is going to pay his bills if he pays me anything. Because he is NPD I realize he doesn't understand that is exactly how I feel.

Elaine2012 posted 10/17/2013 15:41 PM

I just sent a note that I want to go to trial! Oh man I sure hope I did the right thing. I thought long and hard and really wrestled with this decision. I feel as if I've had confirmation through prayer that this is correct. Now I just have to not doubt that I have done the right thing.

I would like to think that maybe we could get it figured out before we go to trial. Except I've hoped that all along that we could get it figured out with each step we've taken.

I'm struggling with how I'm going to pay for this. Maybe that was NPDSTBX strategy he knows I can't afford this. I was so close to taking an offer that wasn't going to cover my needs. I don't have an extravagant budget, even the mediator said it was reasonable. I've really come to the conclusion that I would rather have a judge decide. I know it's taking a chance and right now it's one I'm willing to take.

devistatedmom posted 10/17/2013 16:28 PM

Good for you Elaine, for not settling. What he's offering doesn't cut it. You know it. Stick to your guns.

Take2 posted 10/24/2013 09:45 AM

This is where I ended up after 18 months of bs.

Early on, my X kept making offers (very generous ones) and then revoking them, and threatening me with financial ruin. He was trying one minute to "prove" remorse and then the next he was trying to scare me and to bully me into staying in this sham of a M... (The whole time he had a new girlfriend, I wasn't supposed to know about.)

Once the D started, I went totally dark! Complete NC. I never put an offer on the table because I knew that whatever I expressed an interest in - he would fight. So I said nothing. And my atty. understood my reasoning (because he'd seen the flipflop).

But the atty's (including his) all saw it the same way: 50% of assets, and retirement, and lifelong alimony. So, I decided to take my chances with the judge.

At the 11th hour (and I mean the very last minute, and I had no idea it was coming) the X showed up with a reasonable proposal. We were in a game of chicken and he blinked. It was probably the one and only time I firmly stood my ground, and having gone dark - he wasn't sure what I was thinking anymore - or how to manipulate me.

But I had had my mind set that I was better off at the mercy of a stranger (the judge) than I was dealing with the X (even with the expense of court added in).

It is scary - but hell everything about this process was scary and I only wanted what was fair and a shot at building a new life at 50. My tagline is what got me through.

Strength and courage Elaine!

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