My counselor once told me it could well be possible that OW is a very nice person, and not the evil person I think she is, if you set aside the A part. A wonderful mother, daughter, maybe employee of the month, and most of the time a great wife to her own H.
She proposed the story of a mother visiting her son in jail after he had committed a crime. The mother stlll loves her son, is not able to talk to him about his crime, because she cannot forgive him for it, but she still wants to visit him and be with him. Because apart from his crime, he is still that same wonderful boy she gave birth to and used to know as a loving son. So besides him committing this crime, he is still a good person to her.
Oh, and my counselor also shook her head a while back, when I informed her of my intention to tell the OBS.
What do you say ? I stopped IC for a while, and want to go back for several reasons, but I know I will want to punch her in the face if she tries to shed a positive light on OW. To me, OW is not a good person, but a manipulative, lying, bad person that we know for a fact is still, to this day, trying to get my life.
What is your point of view on this ?
It would bother me too, for the counselor to imply the OW is a good person.
My take on OW/OM is that they are broken like our WSs. Sometimes more so, sometimes less so. Most of us hope that our WSs are capable of remorse and lasting change, so it is possible that OW are too, but we will never see it. Sometimes our WSs seem downright cruel, and I have seen that with some OP as well. We can't really know who they are as a total package, just how they effect our lives, and that effect has been devastating. That's the part that matters to us and usually we don't give a fig who they are at work, etc.
I would have a hard time hearing someone defend the OW, but at this point I just pity her. She ended up wasting years of her life settling for crumbs because she was "lonely" and I have learned some very unattractive things about her. Her first husband left her. She is very messed up, but at least she is leaving us alone. If she wasn't I would be all kinds of pissed off.
Perhaps you could just not talk about her with your IC, or consider changing ICs. She may counsel some OW and tries to be open minded, while you want someone to help bash her. Perhaps that is best left to your friends, or here?
My take on OW/OM is that they are broken like our WSs
Most of us hope that our WSs are capable of remorse and lasting change, so it is possible that OW are too, but we will never see it
Our OW is definitely broken. My H was too, but he has sorted things out, is extremely ashamed of what he has done and has plowed through his FOO issues in therapy.
OW is forever pining for what she cannot have anymore. She cannot live in the city she wants to live, she cannot have my H, she cannot undo having her kids and so on. We know this because she has told my H and after NC is still announcing her woes on the internets.
She continues to want to live in that fantasy that is the A. She has never wanted to get IC or MC because she is convinced my H will eventually realize he wants to be with her.
So, I guess just not discussing her with the counselor is an option.
How do you feel about a counselor suggesting the OBS should not be informed ?
[This message edited by AmberDust at 9:59 AM, October 21st (Monday)]
Not telling the OS - That first of all is none of her business and she shouldn't be making a judgement on it, and I strongly disagree with it. Is the other betrayed spouse just supposed to question his sanity, and accept his dysfuntional relationship?
Nope I would be shopping for a new IC.
My W is an ow, because her ap was M. Your H is apparently an om, because her ap was M.
I find it impossible to condemn aps' humanity while praising my W, so I'm with your IC in that respect.
Note: I certainly can express anger specifically at my W's ap for her participation in the A and for probably seducing my W, but I know nothing about her behavior in the rest of her life.
I'm disturbed by your IC's opposition to informing oBS. 'My' oBS knew before I did, and I sure wish he had told me. Outing the A is also recommended in the few books I've read on this - Shirley Glass, Michele Weiner-Davis, and a couple of others.
It sounds like your IC isn't experienced in infidelity, so maybe finding someone new would help you.
My rule, FWIW, is to always give one or two more sessions, though, because even IC's have off days or we have off days. Plus, if it ever goes to court or whatever it can't be so held against you that you gave up abruptly or whatever...I'm not too coherent on this part but it was a concern for me when court came that I be seen in a good light and counseling was part of it.
Also, if you question it yourself, going once more may help end those questions and you won't carry them around.
In some ways I can kind of get what the person was saying, but I don't want to be offensive. I've tried to do the same thing to be more tolerant of XPervert and that's by saying that his cheating isn't the only thing about him.
We have people we know who make the cheating the only thing about the x and it continues to keep them very bitter, years into the future. I think sometimes maybe this is said as a way to think a tiny bit differently about the people involved. Giving you other things to think of and maybe take your mind off the hardest.
Yet it's your right to feel as you do. This I work on, too.
You gave me nothing and now it's all I've got - Bono
A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess
Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.
I would also tell her that if she ever personally experiences infidelity in her life to give you a call.
IMO, their shaking of their head when you mentioned informing the OBS is heinous. That would be enough for me to move on.
As for the OW being a nice person, maybe some are and maybe some aren't. They all made a mistake and in your case, this one hurt you...badly. So, when we are reeling in pain and shock from direct, deliberate actions caused by our WS and OW/M what possible help can it be to tell you that OW in your case was a nice person? Is your IC trying to make you feel that you shouldn't feel hurt by this person's actions? Does your IC know for a fact that OW is a nice person?-because, if so, then by all means IC should lay it out. But if IC does not know that, then it seems as if IC is trying to -at the very least-inflict more pain upon you by saying that. (Or so it seems when we are still hurting over all of this.)
Some OW/M ARE nice people. Some of my own WH's OW and OM are nice people probably, but I don't want them around me, nor am I going to give them a medal any time soon. They have HURT me. INTENTIONALLY. If your IC thinks that someone who has hurt you intentionally is a nice person, they aren't looking at the situation adequately. Have you expressed to your IC that OW in your situation has apologized to you and is truly remorseful? If you have, then I can see where IC is coming from. If not, .......
Her analogy is irrelevant as well. How many crimes does someone have to commit to no longer be a "nice person?"
I think there are many many many OW/M here on SI who are very nice people. I like them, even. I don't know how I would feel about it, though, if I was personally hurt by them. And, neither does your IC. She/he had no right to say that to you while you are still hurting.
It also sounds as though she might not be well-versed in the trauma infidelity causes.
(If my IC tried to shed a positive light on OW, I'd flat out ask her motives. "Why is it important to you that I see OW as anything more than the agent of pain she's been to me?" I'd be curious whether she is an OW---though that's not a given. Which is why I'd want to know why she was intent on humanizing the woman who caused you such pain.)
[This message edited by solus sto at 2:26 PM, October 21st (Monday)]
I'd be curious whether she is an OW
Some OW/M ARE nice people. Some of my own WH's OW and OM are nice people probably, but I don't want them around me, nor am I going to give them a medal any time soon. They have HURT me. INTENTIONALLY.
My IC said it was not OW's intention to hurt ME. She just wanted to be with the person she fell in love with. To her, I was not in the equation. So she did not hurt me intentionally.
I could definitely see how that would alienate you.
Telling OBS seems also to be a big no no in IC. For many reasons. Especially if motives are not free of revenge, yet, and because consequences can be serious to the point of life threatening.
My suggestion is that you tell her how you feel about how she presents an alternative picture of OW and see how it goes. But she may just not be as sensitive as she needs to be to the rawness of your emotions of betrayal.