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beyondpain6107 posted 10/21/2013 20:15 PM

I don't think I've posted in years, but I visit from time to time. I am not saying this to offend anyone, but more than 6 years out I have had plenty of time to reflect on things....

Here's the deal: My ex is the POS that betrayed me. I hold him completely and totally responsible for the pain and devastation caused to me and my children. Yes, SHE was part of it, but had no commitment to me. I guess what I'm trying to say is, that I see a lot of anger placed mostly on the AP. After years, I have realized my anger should be with the one that made vows with me. Plus if the AP is such a POS then why isn't the WS???? What makes them better??

Again, I'm not saying AP is innocent...

BTW They married a year after our divorce and he tries to "hook up" with me about every six months, and has put on about 80 pounds (he must be super happy right). I never give into his advances, but I find it totally hilarious

I hate that any of us have had to find our way here....It is one of the most, if not the most, devastating thing that can happen.

OldCow18 posted 10/21/2013 20:23 PM

There was a similar post about this recently. I blame WH 100% for destroying our marriage, but I sure am also pissed off at OW, who was a "friend" as well...and married.

I really have not seen any posts that place full blame on OW/OM. I think everyone blames their spouse, and depending on the day or feeling may vent about OW/OM, but that doesn't take away from enemy #1, kwim?

[This message edited by OldCow18 at 8:23 PM, October 21st (Monday)]

beyondpain6107 posted 10/21/2013 20:30 PM

I agree for the most part, but I do think there are a few that I read that I cringe and worry for that person because it's like "AP scum bag who took advantage of WS". It's that which bothers me....truth is we are adults and the being taken advantage of is a copout to me. I was naďve at first because OW had had three previous affairs. So, I saw her as a predator. I knew he wasn't innocent and I was angry with him, but I was holding the major anger for her. As the years have gone on, I have strangely forgiven her....not so much ex husband. Honestly, I do believe what goes around comes around and I've been able to witness it :)

emotionalgirl posted 10/21/2013 20:36 PM

My WH is 100% to blame, but I will say his AP was no innocent in evidenced by her text messages to me! She was a predator...but he gladly took the bait she laid out!

sad12008 posted 10/21/2013 21:37 PM

It depends of the situation. My feeling is there's always enough rage to go around. I never had any heartburn with an AP who was unaware the FWH was married. The ones who knew though....let alone the ones who knew he had a family... I still can get a burn on about them if I spend much time thinking about it. It's just not cool to mess with someone you know is married; it violates my sense of right and wrong.

The (hopefully former)WS had a partnership with the BS, a marriage they built together. Kind of like a house they built together. Yeah, the (f?)WS torched the place that he was a partner in building, but the AP was helping light and fan the flames, kept offering gasoline to kept the fire fueled, and so forth. They're an accomplice. I think that's a valid reason to have a high degree of emnity.

If the AP didn't know the cheater was in a relationship, they're also a victim in my estimation.

That's kind of hysterical how "great" the former Mr. beyondpain's life seems to be going, eh? I remember waaaaay back in the late 80s (I think) when Oprah had a mantra for the heartbroken: "Live better, love better, look better". Sounds like he's doing all the work for you on that one!

Gemini71 posted 10/21/2013 21:40 PM

In my case, there were multiple betrayals. Most of the OW/OM I couldn't care less about. But My STBX had a PA with my BFF of 30+ years. This is the woman who was closer to me than my sisters, the Maid-of-Honor at our wedding. Her I blame. She may not have made vows to me like STBXH, but she betrayed our friendship and my trust.

karmahappens posted 10/21/2013 21:46 PM

Double betrayal here too.

I think everyone needs to handle their anger, pain and sadness in their own way and time.

For me the pain from our "friend" was harder to get over than the pain from my H. She never showed remorse, lied to me and lied to my H about me.

I will NEVER understand it but am lucky enough to have been able to move past it. She doesn't matter in my world anymore, but there was a time the pain and anger were all-consuming.

[This message edited by karmahappens at 9:46 PM, October 21st (Monday)]

MC_Jack posted 10/21/2013 21:59 PM

I agree with the premise of this post as I did with the similar one of last month.

I too cringe a lot when I read some of these threads where the OW is a whore, slut, etc. seducing and taking advantage of the poor hapless WH. You really don't see that language as much from BHs. I am not calling for any changes; just reporting my observations.

In calling the OW a crazy whore, you really do not know what your WH was saying in terms of false promises, etc. to help create the emotional crazy. We all just will never really know what the A dynamic truly was like.

I have never been angry at the OM. He is who he is, does what he does, and his BW is giving him what he deserves. The harm caused to me was by my WW, she is one who made vows with me. She chose to deceive herself and me, not OM.

And I will add, that yes the OM is being handled by his BW. Another reason to disclose the A to the other party. When you talk to the other BS, you see that your spouse is just as much the perpetrator. Focus on your WS.

I also see often that the OW was a 'predator' due to multiple affairs. Maybe the OW is merely easy prey. Pun intended.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 10:02 PM, October 21st (Monday)]

Rebreather posted 10/21/2013 22:05 PM

I blame my spouse totally.

But that doesn't mean I don't have room to hate the woman who gladly helped him along his path of destruction. She attacked me, my way of life, the emotional and financially well being of my children. She is an accessory to the murder of my marriage. I get to hate her all I want.

Thessalian posted 10/21/2013 22:33 PM

I mostly agree - my anger is mostly with WH. But the thing is, I have a long history of also building a loving life with WH, so when this happened he already had a lot of points in the "good relationship" column with me.

OW, on the other hand, started at zero points with me. The only things I really knew about her were that my WH hung out with her sometimes, and that she was rude to me a few times (didn't care then, didn't know what was going on).

Moreover, in my case, I now know quite a bit about OW's habits. After I learned about the A, I found out she was sleeping not just with my WH, but was also sleeping her way around our acquaintances, mostly sleeping with guys who are in long-term committed relationships, and to my knowledge she's not using condoms. When I busted her and WH, and outed her affair with another couple, she played the victim, and asked my WH why "his wife was trying to ruin her life".

I think I get to hate her.

[This message edited by Thessalian at 10:35 PM, October 21st (Monday)]

dameia posted 10/21/2013 22:41 PM

I blame both of them.

WH made the promise to me and he broke it. He is to blame.

OW knew my WH was M with kids. She pursued him relentlessly despite this knowledge. She admitted to me that she was the aggressor, she chased him, got him drunk at an office party, got the hotel room, etc. She is also to blame.

I believe we all have a responsibility to treat our fellow human beings with kindness and respect. OW/OM who knowingly get into a relationship with a married person deserves to be blamed equally for the harm they cause the BS, IMO.

whatnow8 posted 10/21/2013 22:53 PM

I completely understand what you're saying. There was more than one OW for me. Most of them I don't blame. One of them I actually like she was someone that I could've been friends with under different circumstances. She broke it off as soon as she found out he was married. After I found out I contacted her to tell her that I don't blame her at all.
The OW that I have a huge problem with is the one who was my friend, who did effing Bible study with me. She was the only one who knew he was married, she used our friendship to get information, and she did the most damage. How do you trust anyone again when someone you think is your friend betrays you in such a huge way?

[This message edited by whatnow8 at 10:56 PM, October 21st (Monday)]

StillGoing posted 10/21/2013 23:06 PM

Plus if the AP is such a POS then why isn't the WS???? What makes them better??

I think there's a misunderstanding that people ranting about the AP on average feel the WS is 'better.'

This is a perceptual error. Those who do this are generally new to the whole thing. They've spent a long time stuck in a place they didn't understand with a person they had an entirely different world view built around. It's easier to launch in at the AP at first because there's less deconstruction taking place - in most cases there's much, much less invested in the idea of Who This Person Is with regard to the AP than there is with the WS.

The problem I have with this very regularly recurring topic is that it takes the other extreme - that the AP owes us nothing and it's our WS who broke their vows. The AP owes us the damage they caused. I really don't care if the person is a complete stranger that my WS let in - the motherfucker still came in my life uninvited and unwanted, knowingly trespassing where he shouldn't have been.

There's no More or Less here. There's trespass and violation. How those things are dealt with on an individual basis is subjective to circumstances but the wrong done was done equally by all involved. I think either extreme is a bad place to be.


To expand on this - I don't owe the AP jack shit either. To that end after this, I don't owe my wife shit. What there is, is my desire to be with my wife.

On that reason alone do I build up from below zero back to the world of positives and happiness. They both sank down into the shit, but it's my wife I love and it's a lot of effort to fix that relationship. Why the fuck would I want to invest anything in the AP? He can stay down there and be forgotten. If he wants redemption he can find it somewhere else.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 11:12 PM, October 21st (Monday)]

Tearsoflove posted 10/22/2013 03:39 AM

Elle Macpherson should be able to lie down naked in front of my husband and he steps around her. If he were to lie down with her, most of my anger would be directed at him. However, I might be a bit miffed that Elle didn't see fit to find an unmarried man to lie down in front of.

I don't hold the OWs responsible for my husband betraying me. That's all on him. However, without those who are willing to involve themselves in others' relationships, there'd be no one to have an affair with so I can't hold them completely innocent either.

I guess I look at the OWs as co-conspirators. As such, they don't get the full brunt of my anger but they don't get absolved, either.

We, as a society, hold others responsible for their actions even when they are not the direct perpetrator of the crime. For example: It's not just a crime to steal- it's also a crime to receive stolen property (even if you weren't aware of it). We expect those around us to do their due diligence to make sure that their actions are not causing harms to others directly or indirectly. I don't see this as any different.

If you would like to hold the OP in your situation blameless, that's your prerogative. It's not up to me to tell you if that's right or wrong. We're all perfectly capable of deciding how we feel about the OP in our particular situations.

Alex CR posted 10/22/2013 07:07 AM

The affair was all my H's fault and I never blamed the OW...but of course she lived in another country and believed my H was a widow......she didn't even know I existed.

I did however, refer to her as his c&^t, not to degrade OW but to convey to my H that's what she was .....just a warm hole he used. He lied to her and led her on and never cared for her or he wouldn't have treated her that was all about him being selfish and he acknowledged all the blame.

But I can totally understand someone hating an AP who knew the cheater was married and even worse, those who knew the BS.....they may not have dragged the cheater kicking and screaming into their beds, but they stole something they knew didn't have a right to and in my opinion, stealing is wrong. The cheater is at fault, absolutely, but the AP is not always innocent of wrong doing too.

LivingALie posted 10/22/2013 07:55 AM

I’ve always held my H 100% responsible. Initially when I discovered the affair – I didn’t hate the OW at all, as a matter of fact, I didn’t have any feelings towards her at all! I didn’t know her, she was his co-worker.

Even after the first few broken NCs in the immediate aftermath – I STILL didn’t hate her or give her much thought – I was focused on my H’s betrayal.

I began to hate her when she continued to break NC time and time again (yes, he did too), and acted entitled and thought I was blowing things out of proportion….thats when I really saw who she was – not someone who could say “I’m sorry for what I participated in” – instead she expected me to “just get over it”.

SisterMilkshake posted 10/22/2013 07:59 AM

"AP scum bag who took advantage of WS".
In many cases this is true. Not that it is an excuse for the WS, not that it absolves their responsibility one single bit. Still 100% responsible for the choices they made. However, there are many cases where the WS wasn't looking for an affair, were in very vulnerable states and the AP manipulated the WS. Again, WS still fully responsible, however, if AP didn't insinuate themselves with the WS, the WS most likely wouldn't have gone there.
Plus if the AP is such a POS then why isn't the WS???? What makes them better??
Do you visit the Divorce/Separation forum here at SI? 'Cause there sure is a lot of WS bashing in there. If you are trying to reconcile, it is better to vent the anger on the AP. Doesn't mean you don't hold your WS responsible, it just isn't conducive to reconciliation to constantly vent your anger on WS and the AP is a safe outlet for all that righteous anger.

People are responsible for the pain and damage they cause other people. Whether married to you or not. Just because there isn't a contract, doesn't mean you get to hurt other people willy nilly.

but had no commitment to me.
That is exactly how many single OW's, in particular, justify their actions. They sniff mightily from their high horse and say "Well, I am not the one who is married. I did nothing wrong!" Fuck that shit! I am sure if you went to the sites that are for OW's, beyondpain6107, you will get tons and tons of support for your opinion.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 8:04 AM, October 22nd (Tuesday)]

betrayedme2 posted 10/22/2013 08:00 AM

I know there's a lot of psychology to this, but really, I don't give a damn and I'll feel what I feel.

I blame both. I blame my wife first. I was betrayed, hence my username. She betrayed the 22 years of trust, okay, here goes the anniversary thing again. Is it 22 years or 17 years, sorry, that's another reoccurring topic. I was crushed how my best friend could lie to me. Look me in the eye and absolutely lie to me. I seriously don't think I would have cried as much or have been so literally broken if she would have died. The betrayal.......

Now for that other sack of shit. Yeah, I admit it, I've got strong feelings of hate towards him. He himself was divorced from his own infidelities, so why would I expect him to give a shit about someone else's marriage. I hate the fucking bastard. Can you tell I still harbor strong feelings.....? I know many won't like this, but I feel he "preyed" on my wife's insecurities, low self esteem, and knew we didn't have the perfect marriage, plus I traveled 80% of the time. BUT, my wife put herself be in that position and certainly wasn't raped for 5 years. If she had been touched w/o her consent. He'd be "pushing up daisy's".

So yes, I blame both. Like others have also said, I had a life with my wife that I want back, so a degree of forgiveness needs to be found with her. I don't hate her (now, at least), I hate what she did. Hate the sin, but love the sinner kind of thing. Him, I'll hate until the day I die, and then some!

Ostrich80 posted 10/22/2013 09:25 AM

I know my ws is to blame. He's M to me and he was not tricked, coerced, or caught in a web spun by ow. Even if he was, he's still 100% at fault. I do though feel ow has some responsibility in the A. She knew me and our kids and still went for it. I know if a mm came on to me, I would stay away from him because its wrong. However she did not break the committment with me, he did. She is still at fault, she chose like he did, to have the A. He's wrong for going out of the M, she's wrong for being a skank who sleeps with mm.

Newlease posted 10/22/2013 14:38 PM

I think a lot of this has to do with whether the AP is out of the picture or is still lurking. Also if the marriage is headed for D or R.

I think people who are trying to R have to put more blame on the AP so they can try to move forward with R. If you are getting D and the AP is not in the picture, it is pretty easy to let those feelings (i.e., anger, hatred of AP) go.

At least that's what happened in my case. I really feel the like the AP could have been anyone. I put all my energy into figuring out what was going on with XWH - AP became a non-entity pretty quickly for me. And WH became XWH pretty quickly too.


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