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kroma posted 10/27/2013 09:58 AM

8 weeks today I moved out. Not much has changed for me. I still get confused by my wife. Yesterday I was at the house picking up my son and she drove in from shopping. She jumped out of the car and ran over to show me her new haircut. She smiled as I kept staring at her. She looked beautiful. Loved it. She smiled back as I was leaving. Later on that day after I dropped him off we talked and she made it clear that she's not changing her mind about us. At least not for now. She said she'll forgive me in time but will never accept what I did. That it was a one shot deal.
I'm in the process of moving next month to a house right around the corner. It's a nicer place for my kids to come visit. It's better than the basement apt I've been in which is depressing enough.
I'm still doing IC to deal and honestly living day to day. I have no social life so I spend a lot of time alone watching TV. I don't have any hobbies bc quite frankly my family was my hobby. The only happy time for me is with my kids. But that's half the time.
Today is a bad day for me not that any other day isn't. Today just seems worse. I miss Kate terribly. I miss our family. I continue to struggle.

kroma posted 10/27/2013 10:00 AM

I did it again. Please remove the stop sign. Sorry.

metamorphisis posted 10/27/2013 10:26 AM

Stop sign removed. This thread is now open to BS replies.

breakingpoint posted 10/27/2013 16:26 PM

I am 8 weeks separated as well, and I too have been alone a lot and not happy what-so-ever. In my IC, we talked about how one of the precursors to my A was that I wasn't making myself happy and doing the things I love. My life was my family, and I waited for H to want to do things with me (I waited a lot and missed a lot of fun) rather than leading my own life.

It made me feel unhappy in general and looking to my relationship for happiness that was my job to fulfill.

My IC thinks that slowly, I should start to do the things I have been missing and make my own happiness, H is going to do the same. Then H and I can see if our new lives mesh or not.

You may not be ready now, and you might want to be sensitive to your BS and not make a bunch of plans or changes right now. But it might be good to start thinking about the kind of life you want and if not living that was a factor in your choices to have an A.

jstbreathe posted 10/27/2013 18:36 PM

kroma, so sorry to hear you're still in such a low place. Give it time. I think the fact that she wants you to notice her new haircut is hopeful. It shows she still cares if you find her attractive. Have you asked her out on a real date? Like, "How about I take you out so you can show off that new haircut?" If she agrees, make all the arrangements, even the babysitter. Make it all about her, something fun, so you guys can lighten up and maybe laugh a bit.

kroma posted 10/27/2013 18:56 PM

I'd love to ask her out on a date. She's not there yet. Not sure if she will be. Today was such a hard day for me. She said she wanted to hang out with the kids so I've basically been alone all day.
I just don't get it. I look at everything we've done over the years and everything I've done since last year but she would rather start over than work through it. Just makes no sense to me. It's probably just me and my denial.
This is by far the hardest experience I've ever had. Anyone who's out there reading this....don't ever do it. Unless your marriage is over don't ever do it. It's the single most biggest mistake of my life and I feel like I may pay for it forever.

HurtsButImOK posted 10/27/2013 19:19 PM

I know this will be cold comfort to you with your situation but it is WS' like yourself that give me hope in people actually wanting to be better and able to acknowledge their shortcomings/grievous choices.

Keep working on you, be the best dad you can and the most authentic and honest person. Only time will tell if this is truly the end or not for your BS.

Unless your marriage is over don't ever do it.

^^ this is bad advice, under no circumstance is it okay to cheat. Being the recipient of a final 'exit' affair - all I can say is the damage is enormous to me.

It is never okay to cheat, ever!

jstbreathe posted 10/27/2013 19:19 PM

I'm so so sorry kroma. I hope and pray she will one day give you a chance to prove to her how much you love her. It's so sad because the chance of her really finding someone better for her is very unlikely.

Bigger posted 10/27/2013 20:53 PM


I usually terrorize the guys in JFO and have a reputation there on being a bit hard on the BS posting there. I think recovering from infidelity is hard all-round. It’s not something the BS or the WS can do alone and it’s not something that one can do for the other.
I also think one of the biggest mistakes people make after d-day is not dealing with the issues in a clear and final way. Yes – I realize it takes time but within a reasonable timeframe one or both has to be heading out of infidelity. Possibly the most common “solution” is that people learn to live with the infidelity while never really resolving it. People learn to be semi-decent, live a reasonably good family life, have sex, dinner with friends and in all aspects “look” normal… but never deal with that big white elephant called infidelity. I think its way too common that people stay IN infidelity even if the affair is long over. And I fear your wife is remaining in infidelity…

Now I haven’t’ read up on your story other than your profile, but it seems you two spent time after d-day trying to reconcile before deciding to separate.
What I don’t know is what professional help you and your wife got. Did you do IC? What about her? MC?

Kroma – I want to put out a theory of sorts:
Your wife acts the way she does because she feels she can control the situation this way. She doesn’t really want to lose you but she is afraid of moving back in with you. She feels that this is OK – After all you seem to spend a lot of time in your home and with your kids. Not sure how your finances are – how much of the joint family income you provide and she provides; how much of the family income she spends and how much you do. But I have a feeling she’s OK with the present situation because she manages to keep a sense of semi-normality and family life without having to seem “weak” by forgiving you or take the risk of being hurt again by letting you close.

I think you have to think real hard about reality… Kroma – fact is that this present situation isn’t sustainable. It can be maintained on the short run but 6-8-10-12-18 months from now… nah… not realistic.
Three years from now you two won’t be content with still being separated and still being so heavily entwined in each other’s lives. You won’t be happy with living in a crappy house because your income goes into supporting your wife. She won’t be happy in having you in the house all the time. Neither of you will be able to develop a normal adult life.

Look around you. Probably know people that have divorced. See that they tend to move on with life and the contact with ex is minimal if any at all. Normal consequence of the big D is minimal contact – not managing contact. It’s not an alternative form of marriage.

OK – I totally get you don’t want to D and honestly – I’m trying to find ways to prevent D and get you back into a REAL marriage. But fact is right now your wife isn’t offering a marriage. When I advise spouses that have recently had their d-day I often tell them that what they want isn’t really relevant. I might WANT to win the lottery but wanting won’t make it happen. You might WANT to reconcile but if your wife isn’t on board… well you can want all you can but it won’t happen. I tell the BS that they have to face reality…

Part of that is making the WS see reality. That they can’t opt to keep the affair ongoing and remain in a marriage. That divorce has financial consequences. That both parties will move on and establish separate, independent lives.

I don’t think your wife sees this. I think she might be in some sort of BS fog.

Now – I AM NOT going to suggest you make her realize this. Don’t shove this half-assed theory of mine into her face. At least not now. But I do think you should carry on trying to show her that you are a different man that can be trusted. I think you can do some work beforehand to increase your chances of R before starting your journey out of infidelity. But I want you to chew on this theory and get used to its taste. Or dispel it.

What I do suggest you do is start serious work on YOU.
No social life? Sit in front of TV?
Kroma – I want you off the couch and doing activities. Join a gym. Start taking long walks. Load an iPod with podcasts and learn French while doing those two hour walks. Start jogging. Do 10 then 20 then 100 push-ups. Read up on eating healthy. Get a haircut. Dress up a notch. Wax your car. Cut the hairs sticking out of your ears. Whatever. Start working on improving yourself FOR YOUR OWN SAKE.

No hobby? Try golf. How about fly-fishing? Done any hill-climbing? How about taking up cycling…
I really don’t care if you enjoy it just stick at it. Anything that’s more constructive than watching reruns of Survival or CSI and moping around feeling blue.

(edited for spelling)

[This message edited by Bigger at 8:55 PM, October 27th (Sunday)]

kroma posted 10/27/2013 20:54 PM

That statement was not what I meant. You're 100% right. It's never ok to cheat. Ever. What I meant was that if you feel the need to cheat than maybe there's something else wrong with your marriage. If it can't be fixed then leave. Don't cheat. It's not an option. My apologies.

Justbreathe - thanks. A few kind words now and then helps. I mentioned those exact words and all she could say was at least that person won't have done that to her.....clean slate I guess. It's heartbreaking to hear those words. Guilt, shame, anger,'s all on me....

kroma posted 10/27/2013 21:51 PM

When this first happened a year ago Kate put both my kids in therapy. Lasted about 4 sessions. They are doing great considering. She's been in IC for almost a year. I've been in IC every week for a year. We did some MC but not a lot.
There is something I realized that we did wrong during our R process. We spent more time with that elephant in the room than trying to move forward working on us. Don't get me wrong the therapy helped me in finding out a lot of who I was before, during, and after the A. It changed my life 180 degrees in such a positive direction. I know more about a marriage than I ever knew before. I feel like I'm becoming this expert on infidelity sometimes. That all being said I told Kate yesterday that if we ever got back together we both should end all therapy, meds, this site, anything and everything that had to do with what happened. Stop having reminders out there about what happened. We all know what happened. We know the why's and the should haves. What needs to be done is focus on us and our future. When a trigger comes up we both handle it and move on. She agreed with me 100%.
Your theory is right on. She is a control person. She says to me she will never put herself out there for someone to hurt her. She told me that she was mine 100% forever until I hurt her to the core. The hurt is so deep she may forgive me someday but will never accept what I did.
She is definately not in a BS fog. At least I don't think so. She says as soon as I moved out she felt alive again. Her head became clear and she's determined to move on. She feels happier than she has in a year. She says she's not in love with me anymore. That what I did changed her. All these are heartbreaking words to hear.
As for taking care of me your advice is right on. I hear it over and over but I feel like I'm not ready yet. When I get up and go and try to do things I end up right back where I started. At some point I know I have to. I'm hoping it happens soon. I hate being depressed 24/7. It's tiring. Stressful. Draining.

SlowUptake posted 10/28/2013 06:33 AM

I have a condensed but not as eloquent version of Bigger's theory.

I think your BS doesn't want you. She just wants you around.
And she's perfectly content with that arrangement. Are you?

Bigger posted 10/28/2013 09:02 AM

SlowUptake has a way with words!

She is definately not in a BS fog. At least I don't think so.

So she has told you how she sees your relationship 12 months down the line?
So you two have addressed financial issues and how the “business” aspect of a divorce will look like?
So her view on the future is clear and realistic?

It’s a BS fog if she assumes you two will divorce and you will stick around to pay the bills, maintain the house and wax her car.

I am NOT pressing for divorce but I have always said that recovery must always be based on the truth. I have a feeling she wants to divorce but maybe she’s not too clear on the real consequences.

Why? Well… because she doesn’t really like what she sees when she looks at you.
You NEED to get back whatever it was that made her love you.
So… Go do work on you.
All you need to do is get out into fresh air and move. Go out and walk for an hour today. Or jog a mile. Whatever. Just start breaking out of the rut you are in.

I can’t emphasize enough the benefits of trying to woo your wife back. My bout with infidelity was in a former relationship. My present (and hopefully only) wife of over 25 years gave me the ILYBNILWY speech some years ago. Although there were issues in our marriage it wasn’t infidelity. But I set off trying to woo her back and I did it more or less completely without addressing her directly. Some of the things I did:
I got into a regular work-out routine. I am a big guy and if I don’t lift weights and move then I get flabby (and grumpy). So I got back to weight-lifting and regular cardio workouts. Dropped a few pounds but mainly just felt so much better.
I wear a suit and tie to work but at home I would get into my old jeans and the Frankie goes to Hollywood t-shirt. I would shower and shave on weekdays but grow stubble on weekends. I changed that. I started dressing that slight bit better at home and made sure I was clean and tidy.

I had never used cologne but I got a mild one I really liked and used VERY sparingly.

I spent time with our kids without her. I made sure that when they got home they were happy and tired from doing something constructive. No – not stuffed with candy and a movie but rather worn from a bicycle ride or a hike.

I cleaned up things I knew she hated. My personal finances were disorganized so I got them in order.

I snuck in music that connected us. When she walked in to my home-office Roxy Music or Johnny Cash would be quietly wooing her in the background…

Get the picture? I did all sorts of subtle things that improved ME personally, tilted the environment towards R and basically made her see what she was missing.

kroma posted 10/28/2013 10:57 AM

Kate has told me that she doesn't see herself with me in the future. She's made it clear that this is where she's at. She may forgive me but will never accept it. That she will never get past what I did no matter how much I have changed. No matter how great our life was prior. She still loves me but she's not in love with me.
A month ago she hired a separation mediator. We've seen her a few times regarding financials and visitation. Kate is a very organized and efficient person. Crosses her T's and dots her I's. She tells me she's been disconnected for almost a year even during the R. So she's ready to move on. For me this is all new. She's moving way too fast and has mentioned D. I keep asking her to slow down. Back in late July when talks of me leaving came up it was originally discussed of her just getting space and possibly dating. Where did that theory go?
As for me at the house it's mostly my fault. I find myself going there as much as I can bc it makes me feel good. I only go there when she's not and when she is it's bc she needs something from me or wants to talk about the kids. I also go there to help when I can even though she doesn't ask. I mow the lawn. Clean the house. Prepare dinner. Leave her flowers. Help the kids with homework. Do laundry. Whatever I can do so that when she comes home from work she can relax. And FYI I was doing this anyway when we were together so this isn't a short lived gesture or two. I enjoyed doing things for her.
It's funny you mentioned shaving, hair and cologne. Before this happened I never cared what I looked like. Never shaved on the weekends or vacation. Never wore cologne. 2 months ago she wanted me to try a new HC so I did and she loved it. I hated it (still do) but I've been getting it ever since whether she sees me or not. I also make sure I shave if I know she'll see me bc she likes that too. And yes I put a little cologne on too around her bc she said she liked it. Dude I'm trying everything and nothing seems to be working. I know what you and everyone else is thinking. Time for me to move on. Accept my fate and consequences. I know everyone's situation is different and mine certainly is no different. I lost Kate. I lost my family unit. My friends are hers so that means they have sided with her. I have no family in the area. My job is very much affected by this so I'm having major issues there. I live in a small basement apt and the only person I talk to is my therapist. My hobbies were my family and Kate for 16 years. I'm not looking for sympathy but I am holding on by my fingertips.
I'm not giving up on her but I'm losing faith.

kroma posted 10/28/2013 11:05 AM

2 things.

1-For some reason I have this feeling that she's pushing me to move forward. She has brought up doing things for myself like seeing other people and getting on with my life. Is she testing me? Is she trying to get me to give in so that it makes her decision easier? It's not that you guys have the answers but this is what goes through my head.

2-I know my wife. I honestly feel that she's having a really hard time with this even though she shows me no signs of it. She says "I never asked for this. I hate that you put our family into this position. I loved you and would've stayed with you forever. I wish this never happened." I have this feeling that she'll come around some day. Just don't know when. And not sure if this is all wishful thinking.....

jstbreathe posted 10/28/2013 14:24 PM

Has she started dating other people? Nothing helps a person move on faster than a nice new shiny relationship. Just a thought.

Either way, I think to work on you is great advise.

I guess it all comes down to the butterfly theory. If you love someone, set them free. If they come back to you, then they're yours.

kroma posted 10/28/2013 16:51 PM

She has not. That's not her thing if that makes any sense. She's crushed by what I did and she's being very cautious with her future. If she was I'd know. We made a promise that we'd tell each other even if we're separated or divorced. That was her idea.

That being said she's a beautiful, amazing, ambitious, hard working person with an unbelievable personality. She won't be single for long I fear. It'll break my heart more than it is now. Something I'm just not prepared for.

jstbreathe posted 10/28/2013 17:26 PM

I truly hope she comes back to you.

wincings_sparkle posted 10/28/2013 18:59 PM

I find myself going there as much as I can bc it makes me feel good. I only go there when she's not and when she is it's bc she needs something from me or wants to talk about the kids. I also go there to help when I can even though she doesn't ask. I mow the lawn. Clean the house. Prepare dinner. Leave her flowers. Help the kids with homework. Do laundry. Whatever I can do so that when she comes home from work she can relax.

So she's getting the milk for free. Dude, she's not going to buy the cow while she's getting the milk for free.

Stop it. Really. If she wants to be separated, then be separated. Don't do her chores. Don't help her out. If she doesn't want you as a husband, stop it. Why shouldn't she be all sweetness and light. You are giving her everything that a husband would without any benefit to yourself.

*I get that you like helping but it's not helping you. It is just prolonging your pain. Go NC except for kids and finances. Tell her if she changes her mind that you would love to try again and then let her go.

All you can do is take her at her word, she said she is done, let it be done. If she changes her mind let it be a pleasant surprise but don't count on it. Take care of you so that you can take care of your kids and job. That is all you can do. NC will help you prepare yourself if the divorce does happen and NC will allow her to see the reality of you not taking care of all of her responsibilities.

Good luck.

TheAmazingWondertwin posted 10/29/2013 05:32 AM

I'm so sorry for your pain right now. I am the BS- so take my thoughts with that in mind.
I think working on yourself is great advice. Here is my thought- you are truly feelin the pain of what you have lost. She has felt the pain of betrayal.

What she doesn't feel is the pain if not having you around. Right now ts good for her- and that's good because you hurt her and are trying to show her how you have changed.
You have talked about the legal aspects- crossing ts and dotting i's- but she doesn't know what it's like to not have you around.
Maybe by separating a little- working on yourself- after telling her you are always willing to try again when she's ready- it will help her see. Right now she has you and she has her independence- maybe it's dragging on so long because she doesn't realize what really giving you up would mean.
Let her know that you are willing if she is and all she has to do is tell you what she needs from you, but for now, you are going to give her space and let her be on her own. Let it be her call to reach out to you.
You may find that she moves on and does well (I'm sorry) - or you may fin that the distance gives her time to really process.
As an aside- I don't think you can ever just " remove" all things A related and move on. While it sounds like a great idea- it can't happen. There is an elephant in the room and until you acknowledge it and deal with ALL of the things t effects, you are just pretending. I hate taking about the A with my fWH, but if it comes up, we do. Because it happened and it CHANGED our lives. There is no covering that up.

Work on you, give her space. Let her know you are there is she's willing but distance yourself to help yourself heal.

I wish you strength and peace. I hope only the best for you.

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