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Newest Member: marierose913 (46009)

User Topic: I need help responding to this.
tryingagain74
♀ 33698
Member # 33698
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was hoping that XWH would be agreeable to letting me have the kids on Christmas morning like last year. The agreement does state that he gets them Christmas Eve until 11:00 am Christmas Day. He then requested having them on New Year's Eve, which is my day. I told him he could have New Year's Eve if I got all of Christmas Day (with the caveat that he's welcome to come over to my house). His response:

"I'd like to follow the terms the terms of our written agreement. I will pick up the kids at 11 AM on December 24th and return them to your house on December 25th at 11 AM.

As per the agreement, you can have the kids on New Year's Eve and New Year's Day."

I am so upset about this and am considering calling my lawyer to see if she can help me fix this. What should I say to him? Do I bother with an emotional appeal like, "Do you think the kids will like not waking up at my house and seeing me on Christmas morning?" or a more unpleasant approach like, "You'll be hearing from my attorney."

Or, do I suck it up and go crickets? I am so angry that I believed him and let the language stay the way it was written. I feel like a stooge.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.


FBS; now happily liberated!
Two DS and One DD
It matters not how strait the gate,/How charged with punishments the scroll./I am the master of my fate:/I am the captain of my soul.--"Invictus," William Ernest Henley

Posts: 3659 | Registered: Oct 2011
GabyBaby
♀ 26928
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Christmas is a big deal for me too, but I would stick to the agreement, since that's what you signed.

XWH and I alternate Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day every year. If he has them on Thanksgiving, I have them on Christmas, then we switch.
On the years that he has them on Christmas, we celebrate our holiday on either Christmas Eve or on Dec 26. The kids are used to it and enjoy two full days of celebrations.


Me - 42
SorryInSac (STBX WH#2) - 47. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - Done

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW) - Legally married 18yrs

I edit often for clarity/typos.


Posts: 6735 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
tryingagain74
♀ 33698
Member # 33698
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We don't do alternating years. We agreed to Christmas Eve for him because that was a big deal for his family, and Christmas Day for me since that was a big deal for my family. Unfortunately, we only verbally agreed about how he'd come over in the morning (before the Owife and stepfamily were on the scene). Now, that's coming back to haunt me.

The trouble is, I don't think that my kids are going to think that it's awesome to be with him in the morning. They don't care for regular visitation as it is, and he already set the precedent last year by dropping them off on Christmas Eve and then coming over to my place in the morning. My kids are not dumb; they will remember that.

Unfortunately, he has a distorted way of looking at things-- he thinks he's being a great dad and that everything is going well, and I see the reality-- that my kids get upset when they have to go to his place, and they aren't having as much fun in the blended family as they were at first.

I feel like I'm failing them if I just let this go.


FBS; now happily liberated!
Two DS and One DD
It matters not how strait the gate,/How charged with punishments the scroll./I am the master of my fate:/I am the captain of my soul.--"Invictus," William Ernest Henley

Posts: 3659 | Registered: Oct 2011
Sad in AZ
♀ 24239
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Take any passion that you feel out of the communication. As you know, it feeds their sense of self-importance, and it won't get you anywhere.

I think you're giving him too much. If he wants New Year's Eve, he gives you Christmas Eve-they're home in their beds by 11pm. You don't give a shit about his 'big deal' celebration. If he wants a trade, it's tit for tat.

Play hardball--with a smile on your face--and maybe you'll get what you want, depending on how badly he wants NYE.


Hallelujah! Holy shit! Where's the tylenol?

Posts: 20545 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
tryingagain74
♀ 33698
Member # 33698
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unfortunately, it looks like he no longer wants NYE because he'd rather have Christmas morning, so I can't use it as a bargaining chip.

I'm just wondering if my attorney can help me with this or if it's futile.


FBS; now happily liberated!
Two DS and One DD
It matters not how strait the gate,/How charged with punishments the scroll./I am the master of my fate:/I am the captain of my soul.--"Invictus," William Ernest Henley

Posts: 3659 | Registered: Oct 2011
EvenKeel
♀ 24210
Member # 24210
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If that was the agreement you signed (he gets Christmas Eve til 11:00am on Christmas day) then I do not think there is much your attorney can do unless he is in agreement of a change.

He does not sound like he is in agreement of a modification so you would have to make it worth his while to do something like that. Is there any other time you can use as leverage? Extra vacation time? etc.

We alternate each year:
5:00 Christmas Eve til 2:00pm Christmas day

So if you get shorted on Christmas that year, then you get them:
5:00 New Years Eve to 2:00pm New Years day

The following year it reverses. It does suck not having my children wake up at my house every other Christmas but I thought this was fair at the time.

Maybe you can propose something like that?


Eyes are useless if the mind is blind.


Posts: 2268 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Pa
tryingagain74
♀ 33698
Member # 33698
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, I could bargain with him, but I'm wondering if it's best for me to do that through an attorney. The last time I got an attorney involved, he backed right down (though he was in violation of our agreement). I think he fears legal involvement because it means he'll have to spend more of his precious money. He's never asked me for other days that I've denied; we've been pretty flexible so far. But, he's got his Normal Rockwell idea about Christmas fixed in his head, so I don't think he'll budge on this unless I threaten.

Man, he just continues to disappoint. I can't wait to tell the kids that they'll be at Rotting Acres overnight for Christmas, probably with their charming stepsiblings. I won't put it that way, but I'm sure that they will still be upset.

[This message edited by tryingagain74 at 9:20 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


FBS; now happily liberated!
Two DS and One DD
It matters not how strait the gate,/How charged with punishments the scroll./I am the master of my fate:/I am the captain of my soul.--"Invictus," William Ernest Henley

Posts: 3659 | Registered: Oct 2011
Undefinabl3
♀ 36883
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am hesitant to tell you to choose this battle, but you said this:

We don't do alternating years. We agreed to Christmas Eve for him because that was a big deal for his family, and Christmas Day for me since that was a big deal for my family. Unfortunately, we only verbally agreed about how he'd come over in the morning (before the Owife and stepfamily were on the scene). Now, that's coming back to haunt me.

As it happens, life tends to change. Just like you can modify CS, you can return and modify visitation.

I am confused as to the part about what you verbally agreed on. Is it that they all come over to your house, or as to what time on Christmas Day they come home.

If it really is that important to you, then fight it.

Compromise by doing every other year. That's the fair thing to do. I think its really sad that he doesn't agree to this every other year as well.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
New online find 6/19/14 - shit
Phone Find 11/21/14 - I can't even right now.

Posts: 1831 | Registered: Sep 2012
Sad in AZ
♀ 24239
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Instead of fretting, contact your attorney. Get the facts and then see if it's possible to proceed.


Hallelujah! Holy shit! Where's the tylenol?

Posts: 20545 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
tryingagain74
♀ 33698
Member # 33698
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have contacted my attorney to see what can be done, and I'll wait to see what she says.

Thanks for your advice. This board really helps me to keep my cool!


FBS; now happily liberated!
Two DS and One DD
It matters not how strait the gate,/How charged with punishments the scroll./I am the master of my fate:/I am the captain of my soul.--"Invictus," William Ernest Henley

Posts: 3659 | Registered: Oct 2011
Lola2kids
♀ 32789
Member # 32789
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just have to say that I'm so sorry you are having a rough time with this.
Christmas eve AND Christmas morning are very important to me.
I can't imagine the kids not being with me.
This will be the 3rd Christmas coming up that ex has not been there.
I have been lucky that he goes off with OW and her son for Christmas.
This year he just may be getting married.

I think the other posters are right. It sounds like your kids are about to let their preferences be known to Disney Dad and super step mommy.

I hope your lawyer has some good advice for you.

Hugs TA.


BS: (Me) 47
Kids: twins DD(10)
D-Day April 18, 2011
Him:out Sept. 11, 2011
He moved to Europe June 27, 2014.
"They say that absence makes the heart grow fonder but I am growing more and more fond of his absence"

Posts: 1475 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Ontario, Canada
suckstobeme
♀ 30853
Member # 30853
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't deal with him. What you don't know at this point is Owife's Christmas visitation schedule with her ex. It may be that they flip flop the holidays so that could be why your ex is pushing to have his kids there this year if this is also her year with hers.

Your attorney is going to tell you that the standard for modifying visitation is generally a "change in circumstances". I would hammer home the idea that he made you believe that Christmas morning would be flexible and that you adhered to that idea last year. I would also point out to her that he is now refusing to be flexible so you are left with children as young as 5 who will apparently never wake up in their mother's home on Christmas. I don't know anyone who would have signed that agreement without an outside factor making it seem not so drastic, ie, his assurances. I would also ask if this is the standard for visitation. I don't believe it is. From what I know, it's either like mine where he gets them every Christmas eve and I get them every Christmas morning and day, or, you flip flop those days every other year. The father having them for all of Christmas eve and until almost the afternoon every Christmas every year is not fair.

Talk to your lawyer and see if there is something that can be done.

In the alternative, have your lawyer write him a letter advising that you will show up at his house on Christmas morning to watch the gift opening and then take the kids back home with you. Remind him of your favorite coffee creamer and Christmas carol so he can have it ready when you show up. Remind him that he came to your place last year, so this is only fair given what you all discussed during the negotiations.

He might crumble at that one. I know OWife would shit a brick.


BW - me
ExWH - "that one"
D - 2011
You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.
Hard as it may be, try to never give the OP any of your power or head space.

Posts: 2905 | Registered: Jan 2011
sparkysable
♀ 3703
Member # 3703
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The agreement does state that he gets them Christmas Eve until 11:00 am Christmas Day.
I know what's done is done, but I NEVER would have signed this. Over my dead body would my kids be waking up at his house on Christmas Day.
I am so upset about this and am considering calling my lawyer to see if she can help me fix this.
How can you fix this? I am no lawyer, but I think it might be difficult to change. Maybe not. Might at least be worth a phone call.

What should I say to him? Do I bother with an emotional appeal like, "Do you think the kids will like not waking up at my house and seeing me on Christmas morning?" or a more unpleasant approach like, "You'll be hearing from my attorney."
Neither. What can you say? He's right, and unfortunately, you signed it that way. I really hope you can change it.

I am so angry that I believed him and let the language stay the way it was written. I feel like a stooge.
I know, I know. For now, worst case scenario, you sleep in and they come over at 11am for Christmas with you. Think of it this way: the whole time they are at Mr. and Mrs. Madison's house, they will be counting down the time till they can come home to you.

[This message edited by sparkysable at 12:28 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


D-day OW#1 2/2004; R for 6 years; D-day OW#2 5/2010

Marriages that start this way, stepping over the bodies of loved ones as the giddy couple walks down the aisle, are not likely to last.


Posts: 3556 | Registered: Mar 2004 | From: NY
sparkysable
♀ 3703
Member # 3703
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In the alternative, have your lawyer write him a letter advising that you will show up at his house on Christmas morning to watch the gift opening and then take the kids back home with you. Remind him of your favorite coffee creamer and Christmas carol so he can have it ready when you show up. Remind him that he came to your place last year, so this is only fair given what you all discussed during the negotiations.

OMG I'm dying!

[This message edited by sparkysable at 12:17 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


D-day OW#1 2/2004; R for 6 years; D-day OW#2 5/2010

Marriages that start this way, stepping over the bodies of loved ones as the giddy couple walks down the aisle, are not likely to last.


Posts: 3556 | Registered: Mar 2004 | From: NY
tryingagain74
♀ 33698
Member # 33698
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In the alternative, have your lawyer write him a letter advising that you will show up at his house on Christmas morning to watch the gift opening and then take the kids back home with you. Remind him of your favorite coffee creamer and Christmas carol so he can have it ready when you show up. Remind him that he came to your place last year, so this is only fair given what you all discussed during the negotiations.

STBM: Could I really do this, or would they take a restraining order out against me?

SS: I know... I was a complete idiot for agreeing to that language and believing what he said. We wrote this up back in early 2012 when I was still faintly optimistic that he would do the right thing (okay, totally naive). I didn't even think about it because last Christmas went so smoothly, and I just stupidly assumed that we'd do the same thing (or something approximate) this year. Believe me, the person I am today would NEVER have agreed to that Christmas visitation in writing. Never.


FBS; now happily liberated!
Two DS and One DD
It matters not how strait the gate,/How charged with punishments the scroll./I am the master of my fate:/I am the captain of my soul.--"Invictus," William Ernest Henley

Posts: 3659 | Registered: Oct 2011
StillLivin
♀ 40229
Member # 40229
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Having had to deal with numerous hand offs to the ex wife with the step kids, we finally implemented 2 Christmas Days. If it was our turn to celebrate Christmas with both DSSs, then it was a normal Christmas. When it was her turn, we just switched the Christmas date to when they came back. We did the whole thing, gifts, big Christmas dinner, relatives coming, the whole shibang. The boys LOVED it. It made them feel special that they got to have two Christmas celebrations. The often bragged to friends how great it was to have two families celebrating Christmas "just for them!"
I hope this helps.


I don't need further confirmation of what a fuckwit he is. I already have plenty, thanks very much. -SBB
D: 7/2/2014

Posts: 2556 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: AZ
Tearsoflove
♀ 8271
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If this were me, my new Christmas tradition would be that my kids had their Christmas at my house on Christmas Eve morning and all festivities we normally had would occur all day until they went to their father. Let him have 2nd, leftover Christmas.

If they ask why Santa came early you can tell them that Santa makes exceptions when the children have to be somewhere else on Christmas morning.

FTG.


"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson


Posts: 4306 | Registered: Sep 2005
Tearsoflove
♀ 8271
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The advantage to StillLivin's plan is that you can hit the after Christmas sales...

Either way, kids don't care about the date. They care about the fun. Make it fun for you and them and set up some new traditions that aren't centered on the date.


"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson


Posts: 4306 | Registered: Sep 2005
ruinedandbroken
♀ 29250
Member # 29250
Default  Posted: 10:22 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think there is anything your lawyer can do for you. If that is the agreement you signed, that is what you are obligated to follow.

My divorce was so bitter and horrible that we were not able to negotiate much of anything so most of the visitation has been set to the state default which is one parent gets kids until 3:00 Chrimstmas day and then the next year the other parent does. Waking up Christmas morning was a HUGE deal to me. HUUUGE! And I was completely sick about it. But I really didn't have a choice in the matter. That is the default and I knew it was futile trying to get anywhere with this.


So last year was the first year that I didn't get them on Christmas morning and I was downright beside myself...like deep depression sick about it. And then I thought, "I'll just make Christmas at a more convenient time for us." So when the kids arrived home at 3:00 on Christmas day there were no gifts under the tree. I told them Santa had to make anther trip and would be coming that night instead. So on December 26th we woke up to "our" Christmas morning. Santa came. They were super excited. We had a big breakfast.......you would have never known the difference. I'm so glad I did that and it showed me that it doesn't really matter about the actual date. I know it's a hard concept to grasp but it helped me cope last Christmas and it actually turned out better than I expected it to.

If I were you I'd give him nothing but crickets. Fuck him. Stick to the decree and make Christmas when it works for you. You'd be surprised at how much the "date" doesn't really matter.

[This message edited by ruinedandbroken at 10:25 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


“People who cheat feel that life is for the taking, and that everyone deserves happiness no matter what the cost. I must remember these tricks if I ever have my soul surgically removed."
Me: BS 42. Him: WH 41 2 Kids 6&9
Married 14 yrs Together 21

Posts: 1575 | Registered: Aug 2010
SBB
♀ 35229
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

See what your L says. I hope you can change this to every other Christmas.

I think it will cost you legal fees if he is an arse about it but surely you have a good chance of changing it. It is very unusual for one parent to get Christmas morning every.single.year.

I can't think of anything worse. Sharing Christmas morning with the sad clown in my home or in his home is a very close second. I could not stand that. No way.


I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5733 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
Topic Posts: 25
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