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SoVerySadNow posted 11/3/2013 11:33 AM

It's been a struggle to continue this relationship with WH lately. Maybe it's just the whole second year thing, but I don't think so. 

I've had some revelations/realizations recently. And WH slipped and lied to me. Not a lie of omission- a deliberate lie. Lying is on the boundary list we agreed on a year ago. 

I've believed for some time that WH is a pathological liar. No proof or diagnosis, just my thought after living with someone who lies about stupid things as well as important things and destroys us in the process-time and time again. Oh, he always makes promises to never do it again. Then I catch him. 
So revelation one is that WH will always lie to me. 

At this point I realize I can't ever have a true relationship with him as it would be dangerous to me. He says he's working on lying and that he's better. He's working on it in therapy, this is true. If you can't trust someone, you can't believe in the relationship and look towards a future, right? There can't be respect either. 

When we have talks, WH says I am not looking at the positive- that everything is a negative. He says I live in a "black and white world".  I say I live in the world of morality. 

I've had a couple of days of "downtime" due to an injury, and haven't been able to get out and switch gears and distract my depressed thinking. 
So here goes: 
WH would love me to look toward the future and less at the past. I've thought a lot about the difference between how a Wayward is encouraged to move on and improve their deficiencies and learn skills to become a "safe person" for their Betrayed. It seems as though they look into the 'whys' of their cheating and yet put emphasis on improvement of the current and future self (id) -becoming the spouse their Betrayed deserves, if you will. Actually I'd love to know the "why?" of how he threw everything away so easily. 

Meanwhile, as a Betrayed, I am processing the lies, facts, semi truths (depending on what the Betrayed is given) of the past first. So, while WH is working on future behavior improvement, and some present, I am working on processing what the facts of my past are, and some of the present. The future, for me, is not of consequence yet since I haven't even decided if it will include WH. Plus, I can't even see the future due to dealing with the crap I have on my plate, served up by WH. 

It seems like these two very different techniques only overlap a bit in the present dealings of the BS and the WS. Unfortunately, that's where the pain lives. The doubts, the fear, the blows to self esteem. Not just for the BS, but for the WS as well. Not all WS have these, but I think the remorseful ones who are doing the work feel them. 

This is rambling, but I wanted to ask if anyone else was feeling this way? That the difference in how Waywards and Betrayeds process may also cause each to point to the other and say, "You aren't dealing with what has been done to me adequately and want me to forget and just move on!" versus, "You aren't noticing that I'm improving myself, and becoming a safe person for you and you only want to rehash the past and blame me!" 

Too much time on the couch maybe. 

twokids posted 11/3/2013 12:30 PM

Wow, SoVerySad, I think you are on to something here about the natural orientation of the WS and BS being very different. As you say, the WS trying to build a new way of interacting with the world that doesn't include the OP. And the BS trying to make sense of what just happened.

Which may explain why so many BSs on SI don't feel their WS make sufficient efforts to repair all the damage that has been done. The WS is trying to look forward and forget the past.

If only it were that easy for the BS. Experience has taught me that the BS who moves forward without adequate reparations from their WS does so at their own peril. The WS that doesn't demonstrate by word or deed that they really understand the magnitude of the hurt they've caused isn't worthy of R, plain and simple.

SoVerySadNow posted 11/3/2013 12:43 PM

Yes, twokids, exactly!
Do the two techniques inadvertently make it either more difficult or doomed?
There must be some way to come together.
While WH is "working on himself" so diligently (and will, BTW, be addressing his backslide into a lie for a second session with therapist in the three days since) I often ask, "where's the working on us?"- yes, that's necessary too. MC can often takes a backseat while WS's work on themselves in IC and can only deal with so much. And there is not usually infinite cash available for both, nor hours available.
A conundrum.

Kelany posted 11/3/2013 12:53 PM

While the thought processes are different, I think the WS can help the BS by providing as much insight as possible while changing. My husband has been trying to do this for me as much as he can. Yes, he's in the here and now and future, but allows me to discuss the then to understand as best I can, if that makes sense.

I don't think one can change without understanding the past.

SoVerySadNow posted 11/3/2013 13:42 PM

That must be the link, SamanthaBaker.
My WH says he has given as much insight as he can, but I wish here was more. Gradually, maybe. And he periodically becomes frustrated and feels I'm not noticing the changes in him. Or remarking (positive reinforcement) on them enough. I'm still so wounded that I find it difficult.

It sounds like your H is being helpful in your healing. I believe that makes the difference.

kayak posted 11/3/2013 18:15 PM

soverysadnow.....thank you so much.....seeing this in writing is an eye opener...I have been dealing with this struggle since 2006 1st DD.....didn't realize the two very different paths we were walking on the same road to recovery....

hope someone here can give some advice as I am tired of walking what seems like alone....

Will I ever be able to move forward without 100% support from WS.....

SoVerySadNow posted 11/4/2013 11:37 AM

I agree, kayak. I need 100%.

Ostrich80 posted 11/4/2013 13:26 PM

I think your right. I've not looked at it from that angle before. Another reason why SI members are so awesome!!!

Arais posted 11/4/2013 17:48 PM

Its so strange that just when I need something, clarity, I come on here and someone has put into words what I have been trying to figure out.
SoVerySadNow - this is exactly what is happening with me. WS has done a lot of work on himself but falls short when it comes to US. He can't handle the discussions about what he has done. He is all for the future and our MC told me that that is what I needed to do. She kept saying there is no point in dwelling in the past. ReallY? Needless to say she is no longer our MC. I find it hard when he looks for reinforcement of his work and efforts. I can't give it. I gave it for years and it wasn't good enough. Now that the tables have turned and he needs to step up and be the one to do the hard work he can't do it. I do get that he is dealing with years and years of FOO issues. He believes he has dealt with the issues that caused him to cheat and he is 100% positive he will never do anything like that again. Good for him. Do I know that? No. Do I believe him? No. So what is more important right now? Him or me? I think this is the time, given to him as a gift, to show me that he has changed by now making everything about him. The future cannot be without dealing with the past and I think that it is a cop out to look forward while the BS is still suffering in the past.

Patchy posted 11/4/2013 19:22 PM

Just last night my WS expressed, again, how we should "move forward", blah, blah, blah.

Pshhh!

I'm so trying to do that, but I still struggle with trying to figure out if he's really "owned up" to what he did, why he did it, how it devastates me, etc. Still wondering if he thinks it was my fault for not loving him enough. And yet these days the shoe is on the other foot. I lie awake less and less crying about the affair and more more crying about not feeling loved by him. I know he loves me, but the "honeymoon" period we went through upon him finally coming out of the fog, where he was crazy romantic and head over heels in love with me . . . is gone.

Well, at least he's willing to try counseling again with a new counselor.

But yeah, I think what you are describing is pretty typical. The BS can't move forward until he/she has processed and dealt with the past, and the WS, while they NEED to process and heal from the past, just wants to run away from it and move forward.