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Can you still have sex with WS while going 180?

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trudi42 posted 11/4/2013 06:10 AM

Hi - I am working on 180 and feeling so much better. We are neither S or R at the moment in my opinion as I am not prepared to R until he starts to meet my needs/terms and stop wallowing in his own self pity. However sex is still good...and I don't feel its damaging my 180 in that I don't feel used or needy. If anything it empowers me but I kind of assumed sex should be off the menu with 180? Opinions gratefully received. thx!

painfulpast posted 11/4/2013 06:21 AM

The purpose of the 180 is to detach from the WS. I'm not sure how you do that if you're having sex with him.

Generally, sex is definitely off the table.

I have a question - if you're barely speaking to someone other than to politely answer questions, and you aren't in the same room or area as them unless necessary, how do you end up in bed with them? I've seen this question before, and always wondered that.

solus sto posted 11/4/2013 06:25 AM


What is your understanding of the 180? What are you doing that you believe is part of the healthy detachment the 180 represents?

I'm not asking to be snarky. I'm asking because it will help me answer your question.

In general, no--sex is not part of the 180.

trudi42 posted 11/4/2013 06:43 AM

painfulpast/solus sto - Thank you, totally get where you are coming from but I don't see the 180 as detaching myself from him but focusing on my needs only. I didn't read anywhere that you have to not be alone in the room together or necessarily not talk to each other. I am currently: not discussing our future,asking questions about the A, not initiating any conversations about "us", pleading, crying, checking the OW facebook, sitting home wondering what he is doing. I am however taking care of the kids, getting out with friends, making the most of me time, focusing on work, making plans in my head that dont necessarily involve him... maybe I am cherry picking....Also how long should the 180 last? It cant last forever if it involves no talking, at some stage you need to R or S......

painfulpast posted 11/4/2013 06:57 AM

#14 - When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!

#17 Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

It's about moving on and being strong. It's about becoming whole without the spouse. It isn't just not talking about the affair or where they were.

Regardless, if you aren't in R, then why would you have sex with him? How is he seeing that you're missing if you're having sex?

Basically, isn't what you're doing just giving him the best of you without bringing up the A or his actions? How is that going to achieve anything that you want?

painfulpast posted 11/4/2013 07:00 AM

The 180 doesn't involve no talking. It involves basic discussions that the spouse initiates. You answer, pleasantly and happily, and in as few words as possible, as if you could care less about any discussion with him. You then move on with your business.

Your spouse either wakes up and starts acting like he wants his marriage and begins giving what you need, or he doesn't and you begin the plan of separation by asking him to leave since there is no forward movement in the M. How long that lasts is up to you, but the 180 is designed to get you to the point of not caring if he is around. That doesn't happen by cheery conversations and sex.

Heartbroken2013 posted 11/4/2013 07:05 AM

Im sorry, but I don't understand the 180! I really don't!

From what I read, its basically telling us not to talk about A - don't come across as needy, don't search for OW etc etc and basically carry on as you would normally before the dam A.

Can you not do 180 if you are in R.

Because if your in R ... then I couldnt attempt 180 cos that's not gonna work either.

I just don't get it, sorry ... but that's just my humble opinion. maybe ive read it totally wrong ..

Heartbroken2013 posted 11/4/2013 07:09 AM

It involves basic discussions that the spouse initiates.

Are you not allowed to even initiate a conversation??? At all!!!

You answer, pleasantly and happily, and in as few words as possible, as if you could care less about any discussion with him.

This sounds just like playing hard to get!

So, are you in R during the 180 or just living in the same house, because to me, if your living in the same house together, your in R so what is the point of 180!

painfulpast posted 11/4/2013 07:10 AM

No, if you are in R, you wouldn't do the 180, because you are reconciling. The 180 is about preparing yourself for life after the WS. Detaching, becoming stronger for you, not them. Mentally breaking from them. Moving on with your life. You practice it until if feels right. You're used to being with your spouse. You need to get unused to that. The 180 is in preparation for that.

It's been known to make more than a few WSs realize what they are losing. A strong, confident spouse is attractive. A needy, pleading spouse is not, particularly when OW is waiting in the wings to be fun, smiling, and adoring. When you 180, YOU become confident, strong and pleasant - even if only on the outside. You do things for you, not the marriage or the spouse. You do things with friends. You don't do things with the spouse or for the spouse. You focus on you, your life, your mental state. Again, you are practicing for a life without them.

If you are in R, why would you do this? It wouldn't make sense and it would tell your spouse you aren't really reconciling because you'd be pulling away from them, in a big way.

The 180 is for you. Can it turn a WS around? Yes, but that is not the goal. The goal is a stronger, more confident, less reliant you.

painfulpast posted 11/4/2013 07:12 AM

if your living in the same house together, your in R so what is the point of 180!

There are so so so many cases where the M is over (or so it seems) but neither spouse has moved out, for a variety of reasons. Just because you share space does not mean the plan is R.

LivingALie posted 11/4/2013 07:27 AM

I remember wondering what the 180 was all about too. I tried it but failed because I wasn’t “there” yet. I was still trying to “nice him back”. Well, all that got me was more lies and more broken NCs. It seemed to me that the WS was getting the best deal out of that scenario. But when he broke NC again THEN I understood what it meant – and I didn’t even have to try – it came naturally.

I was so disgusted with him and myself that I didn’t want to talk about ANYTHING. I didn’t want to be in a room with him and I had no desire to talk about the affair – what was the point, he was still lying to me. Suddenly, it was easy not to cook dinner for him, do his laundry or go anywhere with him. I stopped the “asking to talk about us”, I stopped the questions about the affair – because I was sick of him and sick of the whole situation.

I’d leave work and go do whatever the hell I wanted to – without calling him. I didn’t care if he was wondering what I was doing or when I was coming home. Talk about the affair? I’d tell him to go ahead and make plans with OW for after work because I wouldn’t be home.

And sex? Are you kidding me – that was a no-brainer – I wasn’t even considering going there!

Everyone is right – once you begin “not caring” and really meaning it inside – you’ll do the 180 naturally – and most times the WS comes around with ACTIONS instead of words, which mean nothing.

trudi42 posted 11/4/2013 07:36 AM

Thank you everyone, guess maybe I have misinterpreted the 180 a little. My problem is I don't know if we are R or not! Which is why the full 180 seems unrealistic. I think I need to see if he can give me what I need and if he cant, try the 180 again (this time without the sex)!!

atsenaotie posted 11/4/2013 07:53 AM

Hi trudi42,

My problem is I don't know if we are R or not!

Let me offer you a third option; Not Divorcing. You are unsure about separation and D, so you are not going the D route, at least not yet. To be in R you both must be committed to healing the M. The BS must be healed enough to again accept the WS as a full member of the M relationship. The WS must be healed, or on the way to healed, of wayward thoughts and behaviors. In your posts and in your profile you express uncertainty; so I would say that you are not in R. From my experience, 4 months out from dday is probably a little early to be jumping into R with both feet. I wanted to see some sustained change in my WS before I committed to R.

When Not Divorcing you can watch to look for sustained change in your WS. You can work on your healing and getting to acceptance. Not Divorcing is a sort of intentional limbo while you decide which path you wish to take. Not Divorcing also works longer term if you decide that there are not enough positive changes in your WS that you want to work on R and get back to an emotionally intimate relationship, but that you are willing to accept the status quo as opposed to D.

As for the sex, you may be hurting the possibility of R if that is what you want, because I believe that you are sending your WS the message that you forgive and forget. While not me, I know some married men who would consider a M where their W regularly had great sex with them and then left them alone to be Heaven. I would think about what it means for you that you find pleasure in having sex with a man who betrayed you, and is not meeting your needs and is wallowing in self-pity.

--Ats

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 7:54 AM, November 4th (Monday)]

trudi42 posted 11/4/2013 08:12 AM

I would think about what it means for you that you find pleasure in having sex with a man who betrayed you, and is not meeting your needs and is wallowing in self-pity.
Because I love him...... now I sound pathetic :(

I am struggling with not being in S or R and now not "not divorcing". I suppose its just being in limbo which I hate but I just don't fit into any of the other categories....

2oldforthis posted 11/4/2013 08:27 AM

As for the sex, you may be hurting the possibility of R if that is what you want, because I believe that you are sending your WS the message that you forgive and forget

Ditto

I was HB right in the beginning. WS took that as a free pass.

I was angry with him but yet having sex. What a mixed message.

That was before I found SI and did not know what I was doing. Big mistake.

atsenaotie posted 11/4/2013 08:36 AM

trudi42,

In the first weeks and months after dday I felt I loved my WW. This was my crap, and a part of my healing, working through why I felt love for a woman ho had betrayed me, abused me emotionally, and not been a supportive partner for most of the M. Part of my answer was valuing myself based on how others felt about me, and another part was that I was in love with who I thought FWW was, and not who she really was.

FWIW, I was in R with FWW 3 different times before I realized I was not. I was in R with the M, with my dreams for us as a couple, with what I thought was “right”, but not with FWW.

Give yourself some time and learn to enjoy, or at least tolerate, the uncertainty.

--Ats

mchercheur posted 11/4/2013 08:40 AM

Thank you for starting this post. I am trying to figure this out too.
I thought we were in R, but my WH is still not getting it, after almost 2 1/2 yrs. I have made so many mistakes by not doing the 180 from the beginning.

cuppacoffee posted 11/4/2013 08:45 AM

Is the sex about your physical needs or getting close to the WS?

If it's just physical, use him and toss him a $20 when you are done but you make sure you get full service.


Okay probably not good advice. I sporidcally use the 180 when I need it. Then he realizes he's a jerkface and fixes his behaviour.

wert posted 11/4/2013 08:48 AM

I did. It was a requirement of my W for us to stay M'd. I had little interested in intimacy with her at that point, but she had some hoops to jump though or I was gone. Basically if you are will to perform for OM, well, welcome to the stage and lets have a little fun for a while....

My question for you is this: Do you want to? For me the 180 was ALL ABOUT ME. Detachment is not just about separation from your S. It's about deciding what you want and making that a priority.

I do think the white or black thinking about being in R or not, doing the 180 or not is not terribly helpful. If your H really is wallowing in self pity, the 180 seems appropriate. IMO, you can separate from your S without leaving. Just do you own thing. If you want to get some from him great. Take it for yourself and not for him.

It's important to point out that this is not a long term relationship builder. It's an I'm in trauma and you still aren't with me response. If he turns towards you and you really decide to R, put your whole heart into it.

take care...

[This message edited by wert at 8:50 AM, November 4th (Monday)]

trudi42 posted 11/4/2013 08:58 AM

Basically if you are will to perform for OM, well, welcome to the stage and lets have a little fun for a while....
I love that :) That's kind of how I feel especially as he is putting on a good show at the moment! I feel I should make the most of it and why the hell should I go without. I realise it wont resolve anything long term. Trusting is the tough part. I think the 180 used when needed is the only thing I can do right now until I know exactly what my road will be....

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