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You might think just like WS and not realize.

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Offhispedestal posted 11/7/2013 10:45 AM

Not all BS will cheat ever. Please hear me out. This was an AHA moment for me!!

We've all asked " why did you do it? How could you!?"
This may not be 100% but this is what happened to me this week.

I was chopping up ingredients for a salad side dish.
I tell my H " I love salads so much even though I regret it later" or something along those lines....
He asks me " then why do you eat it if you know you'll be sick later??" I giggled and responded:
" oh I knowwww it kills my stomach later but at the moment I'm savoring it and enjoying it, it tastes awesome! The last thing on my mind is the pain it will cause later"

Later that night this just hit me like a brick. I did it because it's there, because I love the taste at the moment and it gave satisfaction at the moment. I only think of the consequences when I start to feel the little cramps that turn into hovering over in a fetal position from the pain. That lasts 1-3 hrs sometimes.

LET ME SAY, I don't compare cheating to having a salad that causes me stomach cramps!!! What my H did to me devastated, crushed my soul, erased my happily ever after view, made me sarcastic, now I make fun of romantic movies, I'm cynical.
I'm just saying that many many times a WS has an A because they can, because it was an opportunity to jump into knowingly it might devastate their spouse but it just feels good at the moment. I don't know how many BS are satisfied with the answer " I did it because I could" all of us are capable of an A, of murder, of stealing but most of us don't do it. It's a choice we make just like a WS chooses.

losingmyground posted 11/7/2013 11:01 AM

Sorry but I am of the camp that not everyone can cheat. I know a lot of people that WILL NOT.

That being said, you wanting to eat the salad even though it gives you digestive issues is making a choice that will hurt only you. I have no issue with people doing this. It is a whole different issue when the inability to control your actions leads to the devastation of other people...just for that sake of that one moments satisfaction.

I can see how it relates to the WS though. A lack of self control and being just plain selfish is a major component of the affair. Add to that the lack of empathy for the other people it will effect and it is a recipe for disaster.

OldCow18 posted 11/7/2013 11:11 AM

Thing is eating the salad doesn't affect anyone else but yourself. Your Wh doesn't suffer, your kids don't suffer, friends and family go completely unharmed, kwim? I get what you're saying, but eh, not feeling it

What if eating the salad meant 2-5 years of intense pain for all of the above? I doubt you'd eat the salad.

[This message edited by OldCow18 at 11:12 AM, November 7th (Thursday)]

Offhispedestal posted 11/7/2013 11:50 AM

Losingmyground, I agree. I'm saying we are capable. What is to physically stop you? Nothing physically stops us from doing this. My mind and heart is what puts a complete STOP.

Oldcow18 trust me I'm not saying eating a salad is like cheating. I have an immense sympathy toward all BS. I'm one.
I know eating something that hurts me doesn't affect others.
Or if it would cause harm for 2-5 yrs...I wouldn't do it.
It's the fact that "in the moment" the person does not care. It's a ridiculously stupid ---->choice<----

Simple posted 11/7/2013 12:55 PM

I get what you're saying.

EVERYONE IS CAPABLE OF CHEATING. Given the right time, motivation, circumstances, mental well-being at the time, etc. Ask the majority of cheaters and they will tell you they NEVER thought that they would cheat, ever. Ever heard of the people in the news that say "I never thought it will happen to me"?

Most people who cheat are those that think there is no way they CAN. Most of the people who are afraid they will cheat, usually end up not cheating. Difference in my opinion is the person who is afraid they will cheat will prepare and become more aware of situations. Basically learns what their boundaries are and are aware of making sure NOT to cross it. Whereas people who don't think they ever would may or may not have boundaries set up in the first place making them more vulnerable.

One of the boundaries we set up for BOTH of us during R is kind of "affair-proofing" our marriage. Awareness of certain situations that may compromise us. For example, for my FWH his boundaries are that there should be absolutely no porn, or not being alone with the opposite sex. Mine is when I'm traveling for work that I contact him every night, etc. Situations and things that both parties can agree on and that will make both parties feel secure. The more both follow the boundaries, the stronger the marriage becomes cause it shows mental awareness and is proof that you're choosing to love your partner everyday.

I'm 6 years in R and it's difficult but worth it. Realizations like what you had Offhispedastal are wonderful cause they help you build a better foundation and helps us understand not just our FWS but ourselves and what we're capable of. Many Madhatters didn't realize this until it's too late. I feel for anyone in those situations. It's not easy.

Blobette posted 11/7/2013 13:22 PM

I dunno, Simple. I had opportunity, motive, and weapon -- and I didn't pull the trigger. I worked with this guy for THREE years. He made my toes curl, and I could tell he was equally attracted to me. I was very careful never to be alone with him -- and this when I was younger and childless, and used to go out a lot with my group of fellow workers, so there were many opportunities and alcohol was definitely a risk factor.

The point is that I was conscious of the risk and I took concrete steps to avoid it. And this was long before I heard any talk of "boundaries".

WH and I have discussed this quite a lot. Part of it is that when I was younger I got a lot of attention from men and learned how to send off signals that I was unavailable. I had a strong sense that it was unethical to lead guys on.

Of course, you never know. Maybe there IS a situation where I'd cheat. Maybe if I'd traveled as much as my WH, I might have used that opportunity. But I really don't think so.

HurtButHopeful? posted 11/7/2013 13:43 PM

Oh how I wish my WH had eaten a gigantic salad that he knew would give him a stomach ache later, instead of talking with OW, FIL with her, and asking me for a D, planning to leave and break up our family, etc.

Life would have been soooooooo much simpler had he just made himself sick on a salad.

HurtButHopeful? posted 11/7/2013 13:52 PM

Blobette's response reminds me of the time, after H and I were M, that he had a friend who my subconscious and mind reacted to...I was incredibly attracted to the guy. Any time he was in the room, my heart began racing, and my breathing changed. I never let on that something was happening on my side, I stayed away from the guy. I made sure I was never alone with him, and I kept any conversation to a minimum: "Hello. H is not home yet. He'll be here soon. You can wait for him there. I have work to do, so I have to leave." I have no idea if he had the same chemical reaction to me as I did to him, because we kept our interactions to a minimum.

2married2quit posted 11/7/2013 15:13 PM

I get what you're saying. We are all capable. If you were in the WS/WH's shoes, perhaps, just maybe you could make the same exact choice. Not saying it's okay or anything to excuse the whole thing, but I think at some point we do have to recognize that a WS is human and we could have done the same perhaps. If you were that broken maybe? IDK...there's so many variables.

Itstoohard posted 11/7/2013 17:13 PM

I think being broken has a lot to do with it. I was young when my H was overseas in the service. Girlfriends were making sure I kept busy by having me go out with them but this one time I was left alone with one of their friends...that was the last time I went out with friends. I found a job for weekends. Young but I knew about boundaries....without knowing of boundaries. It's more than just opportunity...

Simple posted 11/7/2013 17:40 PM

The point is that I was conscious of the risk and I took concrete steps to avoid it.

So you have an awareness and control that some waywards don't have which led them to that path to cheat. I had similar situations but I learned to give off the right "unavailable" signal as you say. But I am fully coherent that one wrong step and I probably could've ended up in the wayward forum. Unfortunately for my FWH he was not aware and have no control of himself. He was too engrossed in himself at the time and "broken" to understand that he was taking the wrong step. Deep down, I truly believed he is a decent guy who never wanted to cheat. He just had bad coping mechanism. Once he learned the proper ways and became more aware, he'd proven to me he is a decent human being and worth all the trouble of R. He now gives off the right "unavailable" signals, just like we do.

I think at some point we do have to recognize that a WS is human and we could have done the same perhaps

Thank you, I think that's pretty much what I was trying to say which I think is what Offhispedastal is really trying to say too.

Good discussion guys. Again honestly to each their own. Whatever A-ha moment makes R successful I'm all for it!

bionicgal posted 11/7/2013 22:59 PM

I think too, that waywards can have strong boundaries and miss an area of vulnerability. My h had great boundaries with women at work, women at the gym, and women in public.

He/we got bit by a friend of the family, thinking it was "safe," which quickly turned into "this isn't a typical affair because we had an underlying friendship".

Yeah, spare me.

RidingHealingRd posted 11/7/2013 23:32 PM

Most people who cheat are those that think there is no way they CAN. Most of the people who are afraid they will cheat, usually end up not cheating.

^^^I am interested to know how you arrived at this statement of fact???

I know two people who are definitely NOT in the "MOST people" category you talk about:

1) My WH. He cheated and I am 100% convinced that he knew he had it in him.

2) Myself...I firmly believe that there is no way I CAN cheat and over the course of 53 years I have NEVER cheated, not on a BF or H.
I was presented with the opportunity to cheat with a married man when I was 22 and again at age 47 ~ I let them both know EXACTLY how I felt about that.

pointofnoreturn posted 11/8/2013 16:32 PM

As a wayward, I never thought I'd be here.

I am still broken, but I'm starting to understand boundaries and how my words can be interpreted by others.

I'm no saint, but cheating was the last thing I thought I'd come to. I'm not a horrible person, I just did horrible things. I just think certain people are more prone to cheating than others. Doesn't make it right, it just makes it a human thing.

Roughly about 25% of relationships have dealt with or are dealing with infidelity. I take comfort in knowing I'm not the only one, but I wish I was never in this club to begin with.

Sproket posted 11/8/2013 21:11 PM

I'm sorry but I am one that of those that won't cheat. I was approached before declined all advance Period.
I been cheated on before and it painful and screws you up. I would rather be shot than cheated on. I know it very painful so why would I subject anyone I love and care for to that type of pain that takes so long to recover from.
I know myself I could be stranded on a island with 10 play boy bunnies and wouldn't cheat on my W period.

Tearsoflove posted 11/9/2013 03:03 AM

I think I get what you were trying to say, Offhispedestal. We're living in an instant gratification society now. We have to have the latest gadgets even if that means going into debt to the point that we lose everything. We have to have the biggest meals, even if that means we gain weight and sacrifice our health. We just don't live in a world where very much is done in moderation and with forethought anymore.

In a world where so few people actually consider the long term consequences of many of their actions, it's not surprising that cheating is so rampant. I know that if my husband had truly considered what he might lose, he wouldn't have done it. To me, it's unfathomable that getting laid would be worth losing our marriage but, then again, I tend to consider long term consequences of most decisions pretty carefully. The fact that my husband didn't consider what he stood to lose until it was too late doesn't let him off the hook but it does help me understand how he could do something so damaging.

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