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He "carpooled" with his former EA today - WS please help

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hpv50 posted 11/7/2013 22:02 PM

I just found out that my WS "carpooled" with his former EA today, to an all day seminar an hour away. He thought there was nothing wrong with it because another woman rode with them and he "sat in the back." He said he didn't sit near her at the seminar.

I found out by accident, when I suspected and asked him. He said he didn't tell me "because I didn't want a confrontation, like I'm getting right now." He is unrepentant, defensive, and resentful.

This is someone who FINALLY sent her a no contact email last week, 4 months after he originally said he would, and ONLY after the MC gave him a hard time about it. I think he's resentful because I caught him just as the EA was ramping up, and subsequently convinced himself that that nothing more would *really* have happened.

He could have easily driven separately. We have no financial constraints.

I told him he was just thinking about himself, that he behaved selfishly, and that it's still all about him. That if he wanted to earn back my trust, he could have told me in advance, and I would have told him that I felt insecure about it. That if he'd been transparent, I would trust him more; and that by hiding it and doing as he likes, he makes it even worse.

He refuses to tell me about any of his interactions with her, because he's convinced it will make things worse, and cites this as evidence he's right.

Is there any more advice you can give me, or do I wait yet again for the MC to explain it to him? Advice from WS's is especially appreciated, because I'm beginning to give up on our marriage.

ThoughtIKnewYa posted 11/7/2013 22:17 PM

(((hpv)))

I'm so sorry to say this, but it looks like he hasn't come clean about the extent of the A, he's continuing the A, and he's completely remorseless.

Normal people don't need to be told what is the right thing to do and what is wrong.

If he sent her a NC email last week, when did they plan to carpool?

I'm so sorry, but I think you need to contact a lawyer and 180- both to protect YOU.

Kelany posted 11/7/2013 22:40 PM

Oh my fucking god.

1. His affair is not over.
2. Stop explaining. He gets it, he doesn't care.
3. Stop MC, it isn't working with someone who isn't ready to R.
4. Hefty bag his shit onto the front lawn and call a lawyer. At the very least the hardest 180 ever.

20WrongsVs1 posted 11/7/2013 22:54 PM

I found out by accident, when I suspected and asked him. He said he didn't tell me "because I didn't want a confrontation, like I'm getting right now." He is unrepentant, defensive, and resentful.

((hpv50))

You asked, so (recovering) lying, cheating Wayward perspective here. He is lying his ass off! Pants. On. Fire. I'm so sorry you're dealing with his belligerence after all he's put you through. That is unfair and just downright evil.

How are you feeling? Your tone here is remarkably calm. Were I you, I'd be wondering how much other stuff he got away with, that I didn't accidentally catch. I would be livid.

do I wait yet again for the MC to explain it to him?

Cancel your MC appointment and see an attorney instead. Not saying D, but (if you haven't yet) just find out what D/S looks like for you. MC is for couples who are both "all in." He's clearly not.

knightsbff posted 11/7/2013 23:40 PM

WW here. I'm sorry, I agree. He's lying. I think it's very likely he hasn't admitted the extent of the A. If he's carpooling and seeing her at work and won't tell you about it the EA is NOT over (if it was just an EA).

180, talk to a lawyer, get your ducks in a row to move on without him. Protect yourself. Do it for you. There is a chance he might pull his head out of his ass but don't be fooled. Take care of you.

MC is pointless with him right now. IC to help you get through this nightmare, and IC for him if he wants to own his shit and fix himself so he can become a decent human being who may at some point prove to be worthy of love.

180, 180, 180!!!!!

Edit: to fix typos and say I'm so sorry you are going through this! You deserve so much better.

[This message edited by knightsbff at 11:42 PM, November 7th (Thursday)]

JustDesserts posted 11/8/2013 05:46 AM

WS here. Everyone has made the suggestions and observations that make sense in your sad situation (and which deep down you already know, too).

I'm "educated guessing" one more thing: that what you know right now in terms of the extent and nature of his cheating with this AP and likely other AP's is just the tip of the iceberg.

Don't know why I feel that but I do. I hope his fog will lift and the complete truth will surface.

JD

painfulpast posted 11/8/2013 06:00 AM

Oh my fucking god.
1. His affair is not over.
2. Stop explaining. He gets it, he doesn't care.
3. Stop MC, it isn't working with someone who isn't ready to R.
4. Hefty bag his shit onto the front lawn and call a lawyer. At the very least the hardest 180 ever.

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

If he sent an NC letter last week and then did this, I can only imagine the chuckles they had about that NC letter.

He is completely full of shit. What an ass. Get a box of hefty bags and start loading.

rachelc posted 11/8/2013 06:03 AM

if there's ever a thread that screams, "when people show you who they are, believe them." this one is it!

I'm so sorry hpv. I would be gone.

[This message edited by rachelc at 6:04 AM, November 8th (Friday)]

Sammy2013 posted 11/8/2013 07:03 AM

I am so sorry Hpv50, but everyone is right. The affair isn't over. He took way to long to write the NC. And keeping this from you to avoid a fight is a red flag. My WH did this. Said he had to go to Chicago to see his boss, but didn't tell me because he knew it would be an issue for me (at this point he had admitted an EA). Said he didn't see her and was just trying to protect me. A week later I found out he slept with her for the second time in that trip.

(((Hugs))). I recommend an attorney and 180.

hitbyatruck posted 11/8/2013 07:24 AM

Have MC explain what to him? That stabbing you with the knife hurts? Oh...then he'll get it because a third party spells it out for him.

Come on, he knew exactly what he was doing. He was hoping not to get caught but if he did it is your fault for being mad about it.

Lawyer. 180. get ducks in a row.

JKL Vikings posted 11/8/2013 09:52 AM

WH here..
To Mr Hpv 50, I quote my favorite tennis player of all time, John McEnroe:
YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!! Your affair has beaten your wife to an inch of her life.. And now you think it's OK to car-pool with her??
He's smoking something, and I'm not talking about Marlboros or Camels
(((((hpv50))))
Even if your H is no longer active in the affair, he's looking for a "fix". Any interaction with the OW should be business only. And he sure as hell has no reason to be in a car with her. Even if there was someone else present. At best, he's clueless. At worst, he flat-out doesn't care. scenario 1 is fixable with A LOT of work. The 2nd. Cut your losses and run. I'm usually a love conquers all romantic. That is, if the people are willing to put in the work. Your H doesn't seem to be. I am so sorry.

heartache101 posted 11/8/2013 10:01 AM

(((hpv)))

I agree with SamanthaBaker!! You either stop him now or he will continue to walk all over you and your marriage!

I am sooo sorry!

Dont pass stop go straight to a lawyer if it was me.. How evil of him..

painfulpast posted 11/8/2013 10:15 AM

Im a little confused about something. If you were diagnosed with HPV, why do you believe it was an EA and not a PA? It seems that he was definitely doing more that talking to someone.

Im sorry hes really not remorseful, or even regretful except for you knowing about it. There is no justification, at all, for any of this. He isnt invested in MC or the marriage right now and hes a complete liar. I wouldnt wait for MC for anything. I would start digging, hard, and I would contact an attorney, and yes, Id tell him to leave. Doing less is giving him permission to see her by way of lack of action. It screams that he can do what he wants, and other than you crying or getting upset, there are no consequences. Hell never stop.

Kick him out. If he changes, ok start the counseling again and take it from there. If not, well you saved yourself months or even years of heartache that will occur if you dont take action.

ThoughtIKnewYa posted 11/8/2013 10:54 AM

(((hpv)))

After I responded to your post last night, I read your profile. You are being emotionally abused. I know it's hard for you to see because it's been that way for a while, but your H's behavior is not normal. Stop talking to him about this because he's just using your emotions to twist you up even further.

Based on my experience and the experiences of many others (witnessed here), I think he's having a PA. I know, you're thinking, "but he passed a poly...", but I also know there a few people who CAN lie and pass a poly, and I believe he's one of them. I should probably tell you that, based on that same experience, I don't believe in EAs if the APs have ever been in physical proximity to each other. You can ask the WSs here, but As usually go really fast from talking to everything else. If I were you, I'd stop asking questions and hire a PI. It will hurt to see the evidence, but I think you need to see it/hear it from someone other than him because he's just lying.

I'm so sorry.

hpv50 posted 11/8/2013 10:55 AM

A few more details on the NC may be helpful:

The MC hadn't known that my WS had agreed to a NC 4 months ago; he then repeatedly gave my WS a hard time during the session. That afternoon, my WS went to work (the woman is in the office next to him) and told her that a. I had seen the two of them together 4 months ago in what could be construed as a "compromising" situation (where she was hanging into his body space); and b. I had subsequently read and misinterpreted some of his emails, and now thought there was something going on between them; c. he thought they should be more professional.

In a nutshell: my crazy wife misconstrued this and it's not my fault. That night I threw his clothes into the front yard, and the next morning, he sent the woman a true NC owning the situation. Last week, at our next MC session, he said that he had approached the OW after he sent the NC email, and asked her if she had any questions about it; then he told our MC (in an indignant voice): "now she's (OW) giving me the cold shoulder!" Both the MC and I let that pass (it was a the very end of the session),, and now this "carpool."

Yes, I am very calm about the whole situation after 4 months of great IC, antidepressants, and time. I'm beginning to detach and see it for what it is: at best, I'm trying to squeeze water from a rock. I dont think he values me, really, rather, he values the "marital assets" of kids, house, and convenience. My therapist is convinced he's a low level narcissist, which I'm slowly beginning to agree with.

I spoke with WS a few minutes ago, and he said he's "sorry you feel hurt" . He also siad it didn't occur to him that carpooling would be a problem because "she's no longer a threat." He also said he didn't think about me at all when he decided to carpool. And it's possible that's true, because really, it's all about him.

As for my hpv: my profile is long-winded, but I was diagnosed with it in April, and that's how I found out about this EA deal.

It's not what he did, it's what he's doing right now that's killing our marriage.

hpv50 posted 11/8/2013 11:10 AM

JKL Vikings: thanks. I think you are spot-on. I think he's still looking for a fix of sorts; my therapist says he needs the OWs approval, likes to be the hero. He also is partially clueless and, I think, weird about being controlled (dismissive avoidant, I believe it's called). He wants to do what he wants to do, and resents my interference. Boundaries are control, period.

He says he loves me often (and he too says "love will conquer all), but he seems to have a block of sorts - no real empathy towards me. Regret, anger and defensiveness, not remorse. Occasionally says he's sorry but not often. Goes to MC but doesn't work terribly hard at it outside the sessions.

My IC thinks I should give it more time because she's utterly convinced he's depressed, and depressed people have trouble empathizing. She says he's doing the best he can and thinks I will regret it if I leave too soon. She's in direct touch weekly with my MC, who in turn is in direct contact with WS's IC.

Aubrie posted 11/8/2013 11:47 AM

he had approached the OW after he sent the NC email, and asked her if she had any questions about it;
Excuse me, but was he dropped on his head??? What part of NO CONTACT does he not understand??? He sent the letter, then turned right around and broke it.

He also siad it didn't occur to him that carpooling would be a problem because "she's no longer a threat."
She most certainly is. Actually, any woman is. Because your husband doesn't have a clue. He does not "get it".

karmahappens posted 11/8/2013 11:53 AM

I am sorry


Oh my fucking god.
1. His affair is not over.
2. Stop explaining. He gets it, he doesn't care.
3. Stop MC, it isn't working with someone who isn't ready to R.
4. Hefty bag his shit onto the front lawn and call a lawyer. At the very least the hardest 180 ever.


^^^^yeah, no excuses for him. Save yourself and find a lawyer asap.

TXMommy posted 11/8/2013 12:11 PM

I'm confused as to how this is an emotional affair if you got HPV from him?

Honestly, I don't think you know the whole truth. This situation just SCREAMS lies to me. Is he possibly NPD (narcissistic personality disorder)?
All AP's are to a point, but all this blameshifting, and only thinking of himself... you throw his clothes on the lawn and THEN he makes a move to NC. Small, insignificant, and blaming you the entire time.
I really do agree that if you can hire a PI, do it. And, you definitely need to 180 and talk to a lawyer.

BeyondBreaking posted 11/8/2013 12:13 PM

It sends very mixed messaged to you AND the OW if he sends a NC letter, and then carpools with her a week later. NC means NC. Period.

He said he didn't tell me "because I didn't want a confrontation, like I'm getting right now."

He refuses to tell me about any of his interactions with her, because he's convinced it will make things worse, and cites this as evidence he's right.

I think that these two sentances tell it all. He is:
-Not willing to be upfront with you and open
-Not considering or caring about your feelings
-Not willing to break contact with her right now
-Not willing to be honest with you and tell you the truth

The fact that he won't be honest with you about his interactions with her and his reasoning is that you will get mad and things will get worse tell me that he is continuing to be inappropriate and continuing the EA.

I would stop MC, and 180. There is no need to waste anymore time or money on trying to fix a relationship he has not committed to.

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