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NoReGrets posted 11/8/2013 06:59 AM

I heard some things about OP earlier which didn't make me feel good. WSO is out of town, and I called him to ask him about it. He wasn't very happy to have been woken up just to be asked about what I had heard about OP and the A. The conversation was very civilized, and it lasted for a couple hours, but again, he made it clear that he wasn't happy about it.

He has said on a couple different occasions that these conversations are not positive conversations, but he understands these are things that need to be talked about. He has acknowledged that his actions have caused all of this, but I don't think he feels these conversations are conducive to R. I, on the other hand, think that it is. I feel that these issues need to be discussed, even if they are not at the most opportune times. Seriously though, when is a good time? There's never a good time to talk about it! You don't like it? Tough shit...I didn't ask to be a part of this.

I mean, I don't necessarily want to deal with it either, but I refuse to rugsweep or minimize. To be fair, he has never said "get over it" or anything like that, and he's acknowledged that there are things I need to talk about or get off my chest. He says that I may feel better about things after I talk about it, but he doesn't feel that way after.

I don't yell, scream, cuss, name-call, or anything like that; I don't even have an accusatory attitude when I'm talking about it. Sometimes I want to, but I have this scary ability to control emotions where I don't want to say anything I will regret or have to apologize for later. Even my friends are amazed at my ability at self-control. Is that a bad thing?

He shoulders all the blame for everything, and he's pretty patient during these conversations, but I know he's not happy having these conversations. I don't even know what I feel at the moment, nor do I know how I'm supposed to feel. I feel I've handled myself with as much grace and class as any person can, but should I be doing something different? Am I supposed to be acting and feeling differently? Am I being selfish and unreasonable?

Please help with some feedback and advice.

rachelc posted 11/8/2013 07:03 AM

wow... read my threat below yours!

Is this a gender thing? A WS thing?

you know, comign from a WS perspective as I was one, any time is a good time for me to talk about it.
I like your comment about not asking for this to be part of your life so why do you have to tiptoe around him?

others will give more advice but I want you to know you've been heard. And understood.

hugs!

[This message edited by rachelc at 7:04 AM, November 8th (Friday)]

Blobette posted 11/8/2013 08:11 AM

You are not being selfish and unreasonable. OF COURSE he doesn't like having these conversations. He did something crappy, and having these conversations reminds him of what an asshole he's been -- and hopefully, the enormous pain he's put someone he loves (you) through. Who's going to enjoy that? It's a perfectly normal and reasonable response. My WH HATES these conversations as well, and feels totally drained after them.

Well, they just have to suck it up. Consequences, consequences. I'm not really clear from your post whether he's making you feel this way or whether you're picking up on his discomfort and feeling bad about it. If it's the latter, stop it. You need to do what you need to do to start feeling safe again. You need to hash it out. And it's over when it's over -- you decide.

However, if he's making you feel bad about it, that's a problem. I think we can overlook a few negative comments about how these conversations make them feel -- because, as I said, it's true that they make them feel like shit. They SHOULD make them feel like shit. However, such statements should be following by an acknowledgement that they are necessary and the WS is willing to do what it takes to make the BS feel better. And, ideally, an expression of remorse.

It worries me that you're asking whether you're doing something wrong. There's something a bit co-dependent/submissive about that. You should be able to feel good about doing what you need to do to recover. And you shouldn't need permission to do that. I wonder, have you ever gotten properly angry at your WH? Maybe a little lack of control might be good for you? If nothing else, punching a pillow?

I relate to what you wrote a lot, because it's important to me that I "behave properly" throughout this whole thing. I sometimes wonder who it is I'm trying to please, where these standards came from. I think we have to let go a bit.

badnewsbears posted 11/8/2013 08:19 AM

noregreats- my situation reflects you in many ways. the conversation are hard to have bc you feel as if you should have more closure with them- when 1/2 the time the conversations end up vague or repeating the same stuff youve talked about before. I feel as if i should be learning something new from him- when in reality i know what happened and knows its not going to change( WH has made it very clear its over, states he doesnt want to hurt me anymore by making me think he wants to reconcile) .

i dont feel its wrong to ask more questions. my WH too is civil with our talks. he will often listed to my rants and hurt/pissed off hateful texts i send him- and then not answer when he knows it will upset me more.

none of this is fun- we have ot take it one day at a time !

tushnurse posted 11/8/2013 08:31 AM

NoReGrets - I wonder if he feels these conversations are counterproductive because of the time and place that you are having them? Of just that he finds it hard to talk about it.

I found that after Dday I would get some question, or issue in my head, and frequently I would escalate it to something I felt I needed to know now. Often this created an adviserial conversation, with me almost attacking the issue, and H feeling like I was attacking him, or starting off pissed off, so he was on the defensive. It was not an effective communication method.

What I did find that worked for me was to realize any questions or concerns that I suddenly had that were A related were not going to change the circumstance of it happening, and therefore, even though I felt I needed answers now, I really didn't. I would often write out my concerns, questions, or thoughts. Then I would let H know I had something I needed to discuss and could we set aside some time that evening, or go to lunch or whatever to discuss it. This worked much better. It gave him a chance get his mindset where it needed to be, and didn't feel like an attack, but a conversation that was going to get us to healing. It was much more productive, and H didn't dread these conversations. Whereas prior to instilling this technique he was gunshy about answering his phone when I called because he never knew what was coming.

I get what your H is saying, that he was awakened by a conversation that he was totally unprepared for. This would never work for us, as my H is a bear for the first 30 minutes he is awake, unless he is going fishing, and even then he is not pleasant.lol

Remeber this whole R thing is about healing, and communication and learning better ways of doing it.

(((((and strength))))

NoReGrets posted 11/8/2013 10:22 AM

Thank you, all. I can relate, and I will take all the suggestions into consideration.

I know at some point in the relationship previously, I had somehow become co-dependant. The 10 months away from him helped me see that, and when he suddenly contacted me and came back into my life, I let him know that I was happy by myself and that I didn't need him or any guy to make me happy.

I have raised my voice maybe 3-4 times in the past and gotten really upset, but I've never really "lost it." I don't like the way anger makes me feel, and I feel like I'm going crazy when I do get angry, so I try my best not to reach that point, especially if I can already feel myself getting to that point.

tushnurse, you're totally correct when you say that there are times that I want the answer NOW. However, I will often sit on the questions for some time before I ask them because I want to make sure those are answers I'm ready for and also make sure that the questions are even worth asking. Sometimes I choose to surprise him with questions he doesn't expect because he doesn't get the opportunity to fabricate stories or try to remember the TT he told me in the past. If there are inconsistencies, I'm more likely to catch them.

As far as feeling as if I might be doing something wrong, I wasn't sure if I should have been handling things differently or feeling differently. I'm not even sure what it is that I'm supposed to feel and/or why. It's like a combination of

and sometimes .

sisoon posted 11/8/2013 10:59 AM

The thing is that being betrayed has nothing classy about it, so why keep yourself from expressing your anger, grief, fear? Sometime you have to let loose - anything less is unhealthy for you, and if you have to hold your feelings in, its probably unhealthy for your M, too. You say you don't like feeling angry - it sounds to me like you bury anger rather than let it dissipate or push it out. Anger is a feeling in your body - if you don't let it out, your muscles seem to store it, and it'll make itself felt in the future.

Are you in MC? IC? Is your H in IC? One or more of these may help.

It might also help for your H to not say 'this isn't conducive....' In fact, it's necessary, which includes 'conducive'. It would be a lot better for him to say, ' I feel shame/sad/angry/scared when we talk about this.'

numb&dumb posted 11/8/2013 15:19 PM

He says that I may feel better about things after I talk about it, but he doesn't feel that way after.

This is placing the burden on the one that brought it to the relationship. In other words this is one of the things your WS can do to help you heal.

For lack of better words, he is being given a chance to fix things that he broke. A chance at redemption, who wouldn't want that ?

Healing is painful, Consequences are hard to deal with, but they are there and will not go away on their own.

I don't think you are being unreasonable. If anything, maybe set some limits on the discussions that you are comfortable with. I know it seems hard when something is burning in your head. It is fair and healthy to give each of you a rest from the hurt once and awhile.

R is about communication and compromise sometimes too.

NoReGrets posted 11/8/2013 16:26 PM

I think it's a great idea to set a time to talk about things. I will suggest it when he gets back. Oftentimes, I don't bring things up because sometimes things are going so well that I don't want to bring up the negativity of the A and ruin a good time or good day. As a matter of fact, I just wish it would all go away, but I know that rugsweeping is not a solution or option.

We are not in CC at the moment. I think that would be good later on down the line, but I don't think we are ready for that yet. Neither of us are in IC, and it's not something I'm really too interested in. I don't think it's something he's interested in either. I am, however, doing lots of reading: SI and books.

I've been wondering, though, when I will eventually just stop talking about the A and asking questions. I've been thinking quite a bit about this today. In the past, I've made mistakes (nothing colossal like cheating), and I've either hurt and/or upset him. We would talk about it and then get over it. I wouldn't have wanted him to keep bringing it up over and over, even if it is once every week or two. Will there come a time when that happens? We've spent many, many hours discussing it. Shouldn't I just accept it and move on? I don't want to be stuck here anymore. This friggin BLOWS...

meplusfour posted 11/8/2013 23:58 PM

Thank you for sharing and to all of the responders. I have been struggling with this issue for the past few days. I have tried to conduct myself with grace, dignity and courage throughout this process and I was wondering if I was doing something "wrong".

Dreamland posted 11/9/2013 00:35 AM

My WH never wanted to talk about it. He would tell me the same thing... Blah blah blah. It's not productive to R.. What does it matter.. Those are just details.. He will say" isn't it bad that I cheated so why does it matter how when where.." I finally got seriously upset and yelling telling him that yes every detail does matter and if I ask the same things over and over and I want to talk about it at 4 am he better do his best to tell me what I want to know or he can just leave. He has left a couple of times because he can't stand to talk about what he did. He prefers that I am quiet and have no confrontation about the A. So I will keep quiet and just try to hold back feelings and thought and after a while things seem better.. For him. I still can't sleep still get sick and throw up. So yes on the surface he thinks we are recovering but I'm just coasting. Not sure when he will get it. He has gotten better but now suffered from memory loss. His illness makes it worse too.
So I call bullshit on your WS.. He is rugsweepin IMO. Good luck I hope he starts being more helpful in your healing
Hugs