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greengiant posted 11/10/2013 15:14 PM

Sorry for the long story, but I think it could help some people to answer me.

***Beginning of my story***

On November 2012, my wife just got back to work after taking care of our kids. For 2 months, she was acting strange, wandering around the house. One night, just after we made love, she said that she was sad because she never made love with anyone else (We met each other when we were young), she was ugly, all that kind of stuff. She said cruel things to me, which led me to ask her to see an IC and also an MC. She said it was for the weak, and did nothing. At the same time, our little girl had to go to the hospital. Shortly after Christmas, her mood got back to normal. One month later however, she did not felt sad, but really distant.

I had strong suspicion something was going on, but did not want to spy on her at that time. I told myself that I would betray her if she wasn't cheating on me. Then it stopped, and I learned the truth 6 months later (September 2013). She left her Hotmail account open, and I saw a tremendous amount of e-mails from one of her co-worker.

She said she did not want to tell me because she knew it would hurt me, and said that she already started IC to understand what made her do this. She said that it went on for end of January to the beginning of March, and went 4 times to his apartment. First time they just kissed, and she wasn't expecting that. Second time they had sex 2 times, and the last time she went she said she finally realized what she did. Every time they did it, she had no intention of doing it, but couldn't say no. The last time they did it is the saddest of them for me. She said "yes" to him only because she didn't want him to be sad. I told her this was sick, it was her coworker, she didn't want him sad, but didn't care about her husband and kids? That's totally messed up for me.

She asked him that they had to stop, it was a mistake, but he eventually continue to contact her. She had to ask him another time, then he almost stopped, and when I discovered the truth, he stopped everything. By herself, she sent him an e-mail telling him again to stop contact, she made a mistake and was trying to understand what happened. I was on that e-mail too, so it was clear for him that I was aware. Then I called him. I told him that he had to back off as we had 3 kids (6, 4 and 2 years old) and that my wife had to rebuild herself, and I didn't gave him the time to answer me as I just hung the phone. He stopped making contact after that. It is disgusting me, they had been doing it while they were supposed to be at work.

My wife is still saying that she would have kept it secret. She's saying that it is doing no good that I know it, that it is only hurting me, and that she had started to change her life so it would never happen again. But I think that at some point they would have do it again. They were still seeing each other at work, she even bought the kids at work so he would meet him. She was giving him my books and movies so he could read/watch them. The day I discovered it, she was asking me how she could work with him again after their boss made a reorganization. It appears to me that she had "compartments" in her head. Work was work, family was family, and the A was the A. While one thing was going on, she wasn't thinking about the others. It is turning out there was no love in this, and it was purely mechanical. There was no passion as they were also talking about their job before and after they did it, and except one or two emails they were sending mails about their jobs too.

I cannot talk to any of my friends, we have the same circle of friends and if I want to give her a chance, our friends can't know. I find it so hard when we are with our friends, they see her as a great mother, a good wife, if they only knew... When it happens, it is draining all my energy. Last saturday, we had over 20 friends at our house, and when the last one left, I just felt on the floor. I find it hard to look happy when it's not the case, and I find it hard that I know the truth and everyone find her so nice... When I think that Christmas is coming, I fear that I will have a hard time. My therapist said that maybe I should consider that we won't go anywhere together to make sure I can go through that.

I also have anxiety, especially on Monday. As they did this on lunch time, at his place, I am something freaking out around noon, even if I know it stopped months ago. As time is going over, I feel less and less anxious. She is sending me emails 2-3 times per day, and always calling me around noon and 13h00 so I can know she's not away from work. Since D-Day, she had been writing me a letter each day, writing about her feelings, how she was sorry, how this was a mistake, telling me the next steps of what she wanted to do towards R. Every now and then, I find hidden "love you letters" saying she's thinking of me. Each morning, she's also showing me a picture that really mean something to her (Our first Christmas, our trip to Europe, birth of our kids, etc.)

She's going through a hard time on IC, and the therapist said that she had to understand why she did that in order to rebuild herself. Right now, it appears that she did that because of a lack of self esteem which is going back from her childhood. She's trying really hard to rebuild our relationship, herself and she feels deeply sorry. Her IC said that what she did is so against her values, she probably erased things in her head. I tend to believe this as she can say very precise things about what she did (Precise day, what she was wearing, what they said, etc.), but do not remember others (She doesn't remember the cruel things she said one year ago, only a vague souvenir). She's crying a lot, and something I think that she is considering suicide.

I said to her that I was considering R, but she had to be truly committed to this in order .

***End of story***

First question : I think it would help me to talk to one of my friends, but considering that we have mutual friends, would it help me, but mess our R?

Second question : Did any of you had a hard time going through Christmas time? Sometimes I think we should lock ourselves with the kids, or just go away.

Third questions : Sometimes, I think that I should call the OP one last time, only to warn him that if he ever make another contact, HR would know and that it would break his career. What do you think?

Fourth questions : My wife says that she doesn't think about suicide, but suddenly she feels that there are many ways to die. She said that she won't talk to her IC about this. What should I do?

brkn_heartd posted 11/10/2013 18:23 PM

It is slow on the weekends here. I am sorry you are dealing with this.

First question : I think it would help me to talk to one of my friends, but considering that we have mutual friends, would it help me, but mess our R?

Just remember is you talk to someone they cannot "unknow" what you tell them. Make sure it is someone that you can truly confide in, they will not tell others and that they will be able to accept her if you decide to R. It is difficult to bring others in, but is can be done successfully.

Second question : Did any of you had a hard time going through Christmas time? Sometimes I think we should lock ourselves with the kids, or just go away. Christmas was very hard...he made a big production about going to shop for my gift...told everyone...then took her to the hotel later that morning...Christmas was and still is painful. Do what ever you feel comfortable with. If you do not feel like doing to parties, don't. Remember your kids do not understand. Try to keep some traditions for them.

Third questions : Sometimes, I think that I should call the OP one last time, only to warn him that if he ever make another contact, HR would know and that it would break his career. What do you think?

DO not contact the OP. If he is married, make sure his wife knows. Is your wife changing jobs an option? What is the consequence to your wife if HR is contacted. Make sure you are ready for that aspect.

Fourth questions : My wife says that she doesn't think about suicide, but suddenly she feels that there are many ways to die. She said that she won't talk to her IC about this. What should I do?

Personally, I thought about it and still think about dying because of the A. As did my WH. I believe it is thoughts to escape the pain and believe for some it is normal. The key is if you believe she might act on it. Is she demonstrating behaviors that are characteristic of planned suicide? You could also insist that she talks to the IC as part of her treatment or you can share that with her. Not everyone lays out their plan's so it is wise to be aware and vigilent. If you are afraid an attempt is imminent you can also contact a suicide hot line or notify the police.

Deanna posted 11/10/2013 18:34 PM

Hello. Sorry you are here.
1. I wouldn't tell any of your friends if you want it kept a secret. If you don't care if it gets out then you can speak with your friends. You might want to go into IC yourself.

2. The holidays were hard for me. I think getting g out of your old traditions is a splendid idea!

3. I don't think you shod contact him. NC means NC, even for you.

4. I would take what your wife says about dying very seriously. If she mentions anything to do with suicide you need to get her admitted.

It seems like you are both doing well considering the circumstances!

GotMyLifeBck2013 posted 11/10/2013 18:57 PM

Hard as it is to resist, do nothing related to the pig OM. Remember as sick as he is for his behavior you have to remember he didnt make the commitment to you, she did. She sought it out, wanted it, and took action. Could have been anyone. I would contact his wife one time only, tell her you have concrete evidence and your wifes admission...if she asks for evidence give it to her, then never contact them again.

Tell your wife she must get another job. Period. If she is depressed, keep in mind she did do this to herself. Part of the issue has to be some give by her. So if she doesnt want to leave the job, how serious is she about R? You must draw boundaries...reconciliation also has to mean redefining that relationship permanently.

As for holidays, yep they are rough, but keep in mind they are just days. Only days. The significance is what you make them out to be. It is actually harder because you face your pain in the person of your wife daily. So understand your triggers and tell her why you are sad and hurt. But do not be a victim, just tell her why.
Keep in mind her lack of regard for you, your kids, and your relationship had nothing to do with you. It was her choice. It is also your choice to R or not, so since you are trying, you will have to stop yourself short of being too harsh. She is obviously full of issues, what most people who do the hard work of reconciling and are waywards will tell you is they have a ton of problems. Do not, however confuse that with taking responsibility, the wayward will blow it off as the affair is a result of x or y or z problem within me. That cheapens the hurt they have caused, and it becomes an excuse for future affairs.

Snowy posted 11/10/2013 19:13 PM


Sorry you are here.

My response is similar to the others.

1. If you need to talk to someone, choice that person carefully. They cannot unknow and if you do R with your wife will that affect your relationship. One thing I hated about the A was the affair started to define my relationship with other people. I didn't want that to happen. An alternative is to read & write here. I always found that helpful.

2. For me Christmas was hard because the AP was still in the picture, divorce was on the cards and so it would have been our last Christmas together as a family. If there is NC, just try and treasure the moments you have together as a family this Christmas. Don't do anything you don't want to do. Make the kids the centre of Christmas.

3. I wouldn't contact the OP. Don't give them an opportunity to engage in your life

4. This is only a problem if you believe some one is going to act on this. In which case seek professional advice

greengiant posted 11/10/2013 19:36 PM


First, reading you is helping me, thank you. it helps talking to people who lived similar situations, I often feel that I'm alone, but it's not the case anymore.

I think you're right, if I tell a friend, it may not help our R. I have an IC myself, she's helping me putting words on what I'm living. I have always been the one my friends will talk to whenever they had problems, I always knew what to say. But now, I'm so broken the same thoughts are always going over and over in my head... I think I'll stick with my IC. There's also one coworker that know my story, she don't know my wife, and this is helping me. I think I'll just try to hang around with my friends, to change my mind for a minute. I'll continue posting here also, it helps.

It helps knowing that it is normal having fear when thinking about Christmas. With the words you're saying, I think we should already plan not going out too much as it will be too hard for me. I think I will think of the kids first. As you said, they don't deserve what is happening and should have a happy Christmas. If their dad is devastated, they will see it.

I also understand I shouldn't contact the OM. It will show him that we are still thinking about him. He met my kids, I'm pretty sure he was thinking about taking my place. My wife keeps telling me that she did not want to replace me, but I'm pretty sure that the OM was thinking about it. I won't contact him, I'll try to tell me that I am better than him.

I don't think she will commit suicide in a short period. She said that she didn't want to talk about this with her IC, but I'll try to convince her. It was her not talking about her emotions that got her into her A, I think she should have learned the hard way that it is not good keeping everything inside. I hope she'll talk.

@ Deanna
Thank you about saying that we're doing well, considering the circumstances. It gives me hope that one day it will get better.

@ GotMyLifeBck2013
I smiled when I read "pig OM". Didn't knew we could use such words, but now that you said it, yes, I think he is a pig, and even worse. He got into my life. I know my wife made the decision to see him, but hey, he's still a pig! And I also believed it could have been anyone, as you said. I also told her to change her job. She's currently looking, but at her last meeting with the IC, the IC told her she should "pause". As her world is falling apart (Big lack of self esteem after what she did, fear of losing me, the house, the kids, her friends), her IC thinks that if she change her jobs, everything may fall, even our R. I don't know what to do with this... I think I will double check with my IC to see what she thinks about that. If everyone else has thoughts about that, I'll consider what you'll say.

As for feeling responsible for the A, it is not the case. I know I've always been a loving husband, and a good father. I've always helped for the house chores, sent her flowers, called her to say I loved her... She told me there's nothing I could have done that would have prevented her of not doing this. When he asked her to go at his place, she put herself on "automatic", not thinking about anything else...

Once again, thank to all of you!

GotMyLifeBck2013 posted 11/10/2013 22:38 PM

So this isnt her IC. You tell her you will gladly go to her counseling session with her and make it clear what your expectations are. It is a job. Not her world, not her family. You are betrayed and do not believe your spouse working with this man is safe. Then tell your wife R will fall apart if she continues t not respect your wishes. It is a must. Start clarifying what is and is not a dealbreaker for her. And the compartmentalizing thing is bull. Tell her she needs to tell her IC that this compartmentalizing is an excuse not to own her problems. If an IC really told a wayward to keep working with an affair partner, then i would insist on her getting a new counselor. That one is awful, but my gut says you WW is lying or stretching this a bit. No one tells a cheater to stay working with the OM.

courageous posted 11/10/2013 23:22 PM

Hi. Welcome and I'm sorry you are here.

To answer your questions:

1. I think it will be very beneficial to you to have some support from friends as you will most definitely be riding a roller coaster. You might not feel it yet but once the shock wears off the anger, disbelief, and the pain hit. I told my friends, heck I told a lot of people.. I was very angry anyways..... My friends were very supportive and helpful. I had a shoulder to cry on and someone to talk it out with. I would be very careful of discussing your marriage with your female coworker. Even though you might have strong boundaries it is never a good idea to talk too much about marital issues with the opposite sex... That's how the slippery slope of an A happens.

Just think carefully about who you tell and if they are trustworthy. Some people who have never experienced infidelity can do more damage than help. If they say you need to get over it or it wasn't a big deal... Run! They are not helpful.

2. Yes and no. When my exwh cheated, it was with a married coworker. Every holiday was hard because it was so hard to do anything. I couldn't think, plan, or act like I was okay. I had false R (that's reconciliation) for over 8 months and we ended up separating around October. So Christmas that year was the first time not being "whole" was very apparent to me. I still struggle with depression and PTSD from the A so some situations like big crowds get me anxious. I can't tell you what it was like at Christmas as a couple because we didn't last that long. I cried a lot! I even left the cabin my family was renting and went back to the house by myself. I couldn't be around anyone... And that's okay. Only do what YOU are comfortable with. Don't try to do more than you can tolerate. Be honest with yourself and your wife.

3. While the guy is a piece of shit not worthy to be in your presence I would leave it alone. You have already told him to stay away and it sounds like he has. If you feel the need to say something about him or to him write it here instead. No contact is for both of you. I admit that I contacted the whore several times and I probably shouldn't have. I think it encouraged her to try to "win" and it just gave exwh and COW excuses to talk... After all I was "harassing" her. By the way in this forum you can call him all the dirty names you want... It really feels good to let some of the anger out in name calling. I developed a real big potty mouth after DDay.

4. I think it's great that your wife felt safe in sharing it with you. I too have thought of ways to die. I'm not suicidal but I'm severely depressed. If she's afraid the IC will have her committed .. they won't. I have told my IC my suicidal thoughts and I'm still free! I think it is something to take very seriously.

This is slightly different but it seems to fit.... After the birth of my first child, I thought of the different ways he could die. I felt that I wasn't going to try to kill him those way but I was afraid of the harm to him. When I finally told my doctor she explained that I was suffering from a post particular depression, which can be very serious. So what I'm trying to say is that even though it sounds harmless, this is a cry for help. She might need some ADs or something else.

I want to point out that your WW is doing a lot of work on herself and that is huge! A lot of waywards don't do that much work so quickly. There is a great chance of R succeeding

CallMeRed1 posted 11/11/2013 04:34 AM

I see lots of other people have answered your specific questions. I just want to say it sounds like your wife is full of remorse, and for what it's worth I get the feeling that you two have a very good chance of working this out if you both carry on the way you are.

You're already doing a good thing seeing an IC. I would be very wary of talking to a friend who is a mutual friend of your wife or all your other friends, in case they let it slip to someone else. It could do more harm than good. I'd try and talk to the IC more if you can.

With Christmas, I'm wondering whether you should think about doing something completely different, even if it's just a distraction.

Definitely do not call the OM. Try and wipe him from your mind if you can. But if she can, she really should be thinking about getting a job elsewhere.

I really hope you guys can work this out.


greengiant posted 11/13/2013 06:48 AM

*** Update ***

I am seeing one of my friend next week. I don't think I will tell him what happened as it is one of our common friends, but for sure I'll ask him to go out and change my mind.

We saw our MC last Monday. I told her about my wife's dark thoughts, and she was really concerned. She gave her her personal number in case of need, and told her she HAD to talk to her IC about that. She's seeing her IC tonight, I hope she'll talk.

Also, my wife have 2 sisters and one brother. She talked to them, and turns out that one of her sister has cheated many, many time, and is going through therapy right now. And her brother is an alcoholic, and also doing therapy... As for her other sister, she said nothing... Hell this is hard, I thought they were an happy family, but turns out they are all a mess...

@ GotMyLifeBck2013
I went over her job again yesterday, telling her how uncomfortable I was that she was still at the same job. She said again that he is not in the same building anymore, she asked her boss never to work with his department again, which they did since D-Day. She also said that she will think again about changing her job. She also said that I could come see her anytime without notice if it would make me comfortable. She keeps e-mailing and calling me throughout the day, but you're right, it is hard for me and I told her that she had to change her job at some point.

@ courageous
Thank you for your words. Sometime I think I'm heading toward a depression myself, this is why I'm seeking for help.
As for talking with my female coworker, I'm not worried, she has a daughter of my age and she's the age of my mother. I see her as the mother I never had. She also went through infidelity when she was my age, and she's telling me that time will heal...
I'm also seeing that she's doing a lot of effort in order to fix things, but right now I don't know how to feel about this. I think I'm still at the stage where I'm seeing devastation, and not the effort she's doing. I was starting to see this last week, but I had a big trigger on friday and went back...

@ courageous and callmered1
Thank you again for your kind words, it gives me hope that when I'll move to the next phase, we'll be able to start R.

Gman1 posted 11/13/2013 07:42 AM

I found that holding the secret was very difficult for me as well. It is not fair to be put in this position as it is not your secret and carrying around the burden troubled me greatly as well. I ended up having to tell a few people and it was very comforting to get it out and hear their words of encouragement. Remember it is not your secret and not of your doing so it should not be your burden to bear. Also, I am a little different in my thoughts about the OM. Maybe I view it a little differently that many others do but my opinion is that this man knowingly entered into an A with a married woman and knew that he could potentially harm or destroy another family. I am a firm believer that actions have consequences. He created much pain for you and is basically getting off with no consequences for his actions. I would definitely let all his family know what he did and expose this full bore on his side. I would not hesitate to contact his workplace and let them know either. If he loses his job, then that is his problem and he is responsible for that not you. Again, actions have consequences. Personally, I would wage a campaign of sorts against him which would only be based on the truth and facts about his inappropriate behavior. He deserves to be held accountable. Just my opinion...

greengiant posted 11/14/2013 19:31 PM

Thank you Gman1.
At one point, I was just about calling the boss of the OM, and was thinking about breaking everything at his job. I almost did it. Then I thought that I would break everything at his job for him, but it would do the same to my WF at the same time... If I want her to change her job, she have to get good references at her job so they will pick her at the new place. But oh god I'd like to destroy the job of the OM pig!

greengiant posted 11/14/2013 19:41 PM

Thank you all, you're helping me a lot.
With what I read on the forum, I told my wife that she should get STD test, and she got those full test this morning. She said that she was sure she had nothing, but would go through this in order to make sure she's ok, and in order to minimize my anxiety.

If you're ok with it, I'd like to have your opinion. I'm thinking about telling my wife what I need in order for us to head through R. Do you think it's a good idea, or I should let her find this by herself? What I'd like to ask her are the following :

- She should never, ever have contact with the OM again. If she ever had to talk to him, whatever the reason it would be, she should tell mi immediately.
- If she can't change her job now, she will have to change her job soon in order to make me more secure.
- Never, ever lie to me again
- Go through everything with her IC, and continue her meetings even if it would mean having regular session for the rest of her life.
- Make a timeline of what happened. She said that she told me everything, the problem is that I had to ask a lot of questions to know everything. I want her to tell everything by herself. It will be hard to hear that again, but after that I think I'll be able to move forward a little bit.
- Never ever take me for granted, and give me the place I should always had
- Keep communicating
- Telling me why she chose to stay with me, and why she loves me

What do you think? Do you think it could help, or should I let her time so she finds that by herself?

nuance posted 11/14/2013 22:54 PM

Access to all accounts, full transparency, no minimizing, no blame shifting. Also set a deadline for changing her job. For me it'd be yesterday.

ETA: no TT. Full disclosure.

[This message edited by nuance at 10:57 PM, November 14th (Thursday)]

5454real posted 11/14/2013 23:14 PM

Be prepared for the answers. They will likely cause a lot of pain. I think it's a good list with the additions from nuance.

BUT....what are the consequences for non-compliance? What are you prepared to do when(not if) she fails to meet your list? I say when because some things on your list would be difficult for anyone to meet. For example: never ever taking you for granted. What if she does? At least in your eyes? She may think a specific action wasn't taking you for granted, but you feel otherwise? What would you do?

Just be careful of drawing lines in the sand that you need to change later.


KatieG posted 11/15/2013 02:55 AM

Yes agree, might be better to say that you want the 100% truth and then you will decide what YOU will do. Otherwise you may have to go back on some of these and that will dilute you.

NC and full disclosure, THEN you'll decide what's best for your life.

jb3199 posted 11/15/2013 05:18 AM

As brutal as all of this is, know that you are heading in the right direction.

The biggest thing for you to understand at this point, is that recovering from infidelity is a process, and can't be circumvented. You have to go through all the emotions.

Your wife is apparently doing the work on herself, so that puts you ahead of many, many members here. I'm sure that it doesn't make you feel great inside, but believe me---it is huge that she is doing this.

If I was to pinpoint a couple of areas of concern regarding your WW, it would be this:

My wife is still saying that she would have kept it secret. She's saying that it is doing no good that I know it, that it is only hurting me, and that she had started to change her life so it would never happen again.

That lacks empathy, which is a key element of remorse. She unilaterally is deciding what is best for you...when in reality, she is feeling this way to avoid the consequences of her actions, and:

I went over her job again yesterday, telling her how uncomfortable I was that she was still at the same job. She said again that he is not in the same building anymore, she asked her boss never to work with his department again, which they did since D-Day. She also said that she will think again about changing her job.

Again, she is not recognizing your pain. Not to take away from her progress, just some focal points for her to work on.

As for your list, there is nothing wrong, in my opinion, for you to state your non-negotiables...particularly the ones centered around the affair. I agree with 5454 that the taking for granted, communication, etc., type of demands are not black and white, and are topics in a normal marriage. But there is nothing wrong with not only stating, but demanding, things such as no contact(or notification if she was contacted), timeline, job change....all the items that were uninvitingly brought into your marriage by her. If these are bare minimums that you need, then so be it. It is devastating that we even have to address things like this in our marriage, but yet here we are--trying to pick up the shattered pieces around what was once our happy lives. Don't be afraid to ask for these things.

I am sure that I missed it, but it seems like the OM is single. Is this true?

Shockleader posted 11/15/2013 06:03 AM

Job change is absolutely paramount! There is no way in my experience and opinion that attempted R can happen if she keeps that job, and it pisses you off/feels threatening EVERY DAY... NONE! Yeah, I know some folks say they can do it, but feeling secure with the situation is critical, and her not very willingly and actively looking for other work is a big red flag to me.

She willingly fucked up her job situation, and if she truly wants to be married to you, and *attempt* R, she quits... With no guarantees that D might not also happen too.

Good luck GG!

jjct posted 11/15/2013 06:20 AM

Adding to jb's point - not only does it lack empathy, it's simply not true.

"Doing the deed" is what hurt you.
"Not telling you about it" also hurts, because it means she was 'ok' with you living a lie.

If pig is married, or even in a relationship, his wife or SO needs to know. Chances are, they're living a lie right now too, and you know how much that hurts.

OK now posted 11/15/2013 06:52 AM

You have to ask yourself why did your wife have this affair and why does she say hurtful things to you; was going to keep the affair a secret; unwilling to change her job, lack of empathy etc.
The short answer a total lack of respect for you. You don't turn her on anymore; takes you for granted, old reliable boring husband.

Thats what you need to change. Your wife will have a tendency to rugsweep and you will end up just where you were before the affair started. She began the affair for excitement and spicy sex not lack of self-esteem and the driving force behind the cheating was her not respecting and valuing you.

Stop being so loving and available. A model husband so considerate, romantic and thoughtful. Didn't get you anywhere did it? Try being a bit selfish and put your own needs first; concentrate on your kids and your career, and start protecting yourself from your WW's lack of regard and open disrespect for you.

If you go back to the same marriage you had before, where she was your world, then nothing will change except wifey will be more careful next time.

I also noticed that you WW said it was sad she had never made love to any other man. Well, she then cold-bloodily went out and realized that ambition; now she is not exclusively yours anymore. How utterly romantic. How can you tolerate such contempt.

[This message edited by OK now at 7:36 AM, November 15th (Friday)]

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