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lisaloo posted 11/11/2013 12:59 PM

for a fWH to have friends of the opposite sex that they hang out with and chat with online, or is this an absolute no go? I really need some opinions, because I am starting to doubt myself...I honestly think it's unacceptable for a man who has had an affair to have female friends that are outside the marriage, so to speak...am I being unreasonable?

nowiknow23 posted 11/11/2013 13:02 PM

This is a personal boundary issue - there's no right or wrong answer, lisa. If it isn't ok with you, that's your boundary, and you have every right to set it. Your fwh has the right to accept that or not. If he isn't accepting of that boundary, then it's your decision about whether that's a dealbreaker for you.

For what it's worth, this is not an unusual boundary based on what I've read here.

Josephine01 posted 11/11/2013 13:04 PM

I would say that is a personal choice between you and your WS. But. . . I told my WH, that he was to make no more friends of the opposite sex. he really has no idea where the line is so he can't even come close.

lisaloo posted 11/11/2013 13:10 PM

he really has no idea where the line is so he can't even come close.

THIS!! This is exactly what I feel, WH has no idea how to have an appropriate relationship with a member of the opposite sex. I also cant see why he finds this to be such a point of contention with me (I mean, I really DO know...it's because he wants to keep doing whatever wrong thing it is that he's doing, or at least leave the option on the table)...sigh...reconciliation had been going SO WELL for so long, and now this...again.

RippedSoul posted 11/11/2013 13:12 PM

My answer, I think, would have to be "it depends." My SAWH is unsafe with just about any woman. So far, the part in our married life, though, is that women WE know are safe. My sisters-in-law, my best friends, friends from church, etc. There's no fantasy there: he knows the woman, knows her children, knows her husband. Before he stepped "our" issues up a notch with the A and the prostitutes and the escorts and the hook-up sites, his SA acting out involved only porn, an inappropriately personal (not sexual) relationship with an old fling here and there, and mind fantasies. Those never seemed to happen with women WE knew--just with ones HE knew or HE saw (strangers). So there might be (I make few absolute statements any more) safe female relationships EVEN for a sex addict.

If so, then there may reasonably be some women your FWH could be friends with--but only if they're friends of the marriage. Chat with online? Nope. Too personal and isolating. Hang out with without me? Nope. Too dangerous. But I have women friends my SAWH could text without my feeling threatened--as long as it was occasional and for a specific purpose (helping their kids with a homework assignment, planning a getaway for us, contacting them about pet-sitting, hiding a b-day surprise for me).

I, personally, don't think mine could ever safely handle a long-term relationship with another woman minus one. There's a girl (now a woman) he dated 25+ years ago and with whom he keeps in contact each year on holidays and birthdays. I've met her and she has powerfully strong morals and boundaries. She usually sends just post cards (so I can read them, too). She only sends holiday cards (to the whole family) and birthday cards (to him). Even then, they're usually b-day e-mails that are short, sweet, and to the point. HE could do more, but I don't believe SHE could.

OldCow18 posted 11/11/2013 13:19 PM

I'm dealing with this issue as well as WH gravitates towards women (fabulous) and makes friends with them easily, he converses with them on FB, private messages, he texts with them, etc. He is coach for our DD's team so all the moms just LOVE him!

Since OW was also a "friend" and WH has proven that he has NO IDEA what boundaries are in a marriage (he feels that boundaries in a marriage will suck the life out of him, poor guy), this is a big problem. Even with the platonic friends he is flirty and doesn't even see it because it is just "how he is".

I was having a HUGE problem with one woman (an assistant coach) in particular since she came into his life in JULY - after d-day. We fought about her at least 20 times until he begrudingly and very angrily deleted her from FB just yesterday, and let me tell you, he's not happy about it. Ass. Like having this woman as a friend after what he's done is so much more important than making his wife feel safe.

Will be watching this post for adivce.

lisaloo posted 11/11/2013 13:30 PM

Even with the platonic friends he is flirty and doesn't even see it because it is just "how he is".

AND THIS!! WH is a big flirt, and thinks everything can be turned into a dirty joke...occasionally it's funny, but it's inappropriate to be this way with women-especially if I am not around. He's told me that he's going to be friends with whoever the hell he wants to be friends with because he's already lost enough friends because of me (referring to an inappropriate friendship I nixed several years back), and basically I can like it or lump it...I'm feeling rather lumpy.

Lovedyoumore posted 11/11/2013 13:31 PM

No female friends, ever, in our marriage. He f**ked a friend. She started as an acquaintance, moved up to friend, and then besties without my knowledge. I just thought she was a pathetic never married 35 year old who could not keep a job and needed to do something in her life. I never imagined she was doing my H. She wanted a new career, an executive position, a husband, a child, security and credibility. She got almost all of those from my H before the plug was pulled. And she was just a friend.

We read the "Not Just Friends" book and jointly decided no female friends, ever. Not even church friends. In his professional career there will be no communication unless it is strictly business. If anyone adds chit chat he is to change it back to business, ignore it, or move on. So, not only no female friends, he is to not even engage in friendly banter with any women, anywhere. Not next to one on airplane, in restaurants, in lobbies, in line at the bank, you get the picture.

We do not care if he comes across as strange, arrogant, or just backwards.

OldCow18 posted 11/11/2013 13:36 PM

So, not only no female friends, he is to not even engage in friendly banter with any women, anywhere. Not next to one on airplane, in restaurants, in lobbies, in line at the bank, you get the picture.

How on earth did you get him to agree to this?? My WH says I'm turning him into a eunich because I don't want him texting so much (ASS), he would laugh heartily in my face if I suggested he behave this way. Wow.

cl131716 posted 11/11/2013 13:44 PM

In some relationships I'd say it would be fine. For mine it is an absolute no go because WS has shown he can't respect boundaries. He seeks validation and will get it from wherever. So what may start out as just a "friend" could much too easily slip into something inappropriate.

whiteflower99 posted 11/11/2013 14:08 PM

How on earth did you get him to agree to this?? My WH says I'm turning him into a eunich because I don't want him texting so much (ASS), he would laugh heartily in my face if I suggested he behave this way. Wow.

A remorseful WS would do anything to earn your trust back and help you heal.
Did he say he would do anything?
Will you accept anything less?

Lovedyoumore posted 11/11/2013 14:24 PM

Because he knew he has had poor boundaries in the past and that got him in trouble. After reading the book, talking at great length about the A, his ability to compartmentalize, and my fears, we agreed and that is the line we drew. If any woman sends him a text or email, he sends me a copy. We decide if he needs to answer and what the answer will be. I have complete "administrator" rights over his Facebook. He dropped LinkedIn, but the email attached to it was a shared email account. I have all passwords, find a phone, FaceTime, etc.

I drew a line and if he wants to stay married to me, this is now his life. He should have stayed faithful. And yes it may look like I have his balls in my pocket, but the package is still intact. Now, the ring in his nostrils is another matter.

tushnurse posted 11/11/2013 14:25 PM

(((Lisaloo))))

Your boundaries, and requirements for R are yours. You can make them whatever they need to be for you to feel safe, secure, and at ease.

If that means he needs to hang the Christmas lights on the house in June, he better be jumping at the chance to do it, and show you just how much he does love you. Same goes for your comfort level with a friend on line. If he feels the need to hide any of it, or not share it, or gets angry because you want to read it, or demand to see conversations, then you better bet your hat something inappriopriate is going on.

((((and strength))))

BeyondBreaking posted 11/11/2013 14:58 PM

I know H has some female friends, and those are people I have met and am comfortable with. I do, however, set boundaries as to what I am comfortable as far as female friends go. No long, drawn out texting conversations or pictures back and forth. No talking about anything sexual, or relationship problems. He needs to be upfront with me about any in person meetings (coffee, etc... I want to know about beforehand, not find out about after it has already happened).

If I don't know the woman, and he is not speaking to her for something work related- I qould prefer to meet and get to know her.

H used to be the same way- flirty with women and then refusing to be less friendly, insisting that he is "just a nice person." There was one female friend I had a huge issue with- she was from Arizona, his home town, and she would call or skype him and they would talk for hours on end. She was single, and after he had told me he would never dream of anything beyond friendship with her, I found out that they had hooked up one time in college. I told him he could continue his friendship with her, but I would be leaving. He promptly fazed her out and does not speak to her anymore.

You have every right to decide where your boundaries are, and set limits. If he doesn't agree to your boundaries, you need to decide if they are deal breakers or not.

lisaloo posted 11/11/2013 15:07 PM

WH JUST sent me a text message telling me that he was going walking with the woman he had been lying about to me and some other person I have never heard of...and now I am just sitting here fucking crying...I cant do this. I cant. He's putting her above reconciling with me...I think I need to get out of this house. I am seriously considering packing up my daughter and I and going to stay at my parents house...

whiteflower99 posted 11/11/2013 21:09 PM

OMG... are you ok?

cantgetup posted 11/12/2013 06:25 AM

My H offered to give up all female friends and chatiness with all females strangers and aquaintences. I'm glad, because if would have had to 'make ' him, that would have been a bad sign for him getting it.

EaglesWings posted 11/12/2013 16:26 PM

They really DON'T get it. WH A started with suggestive words played on "Words with Friends" with one of our employees. Escalated from there-texting, calling, private messaging etc. After D-day he continued "just friends". I forced her to cut him off electronically (I am her boss OMG). Now he thinks it's OK to text etc with another employee but "she's just a friend, I would never...."

We had major argument about her a few months ago, he promised to show me texts when they appeared. He "forgot." I truly don't think there's anything going on but that's not my point. Last week noted 31 texts between them over about 2 hours. They hadn't been texting for about 6 weeks prior. S*** hit the fan. He deleted her contact info just to shut me up.

I know there's lots of ways for him to communicate if he wants to that I could never find ( technology is a bitch). My point is he doesn't seem to realize (care?) that he plays loose with boundaries. That he lacks self-awareness. Just can't fix stupid!!

StillLivin posted 11/12/2013 16:38 PM

for a fWH to have friends of the opposite sex that they hang out with and chat with online, or is this an absolute no go?

Ummm, I'm sorry, but ANY H should not engage in this kind of toxic behavior even if he has never cheated, takes his penis off at the door and hands it to you, and has a GPS embedded in his head like a pet chip.
It's called boundaries.
I drew a line and if he wants to stay married to me, this is now his life. He should have stayed faithful. And yes it may look like I have his balls in my pocket, but the package is still intact. Now, the ring in his nostrils is another matter.

Lovedyoumore has the right idea.

In a nutshell, lisaloo, your husband is acting like a spoiled, entitled ass. Sorry, no offense meant, but he is.
Recover is about you, not him. Later, when he has helped you heal from the A, you can both work on the marital issues that may have existed.
If he is not onboard with YOUR full recovery and R, then you may need to NC and 180 his entitled ass. Just tell him to knock it off his shoulders first cuz you can't roundhouse him that high.


bionicgal posted 11/12/2013 16:38 PM

Nope.

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