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cantaccept posted 11/12/2013 06:10 AM

I know that many of you believe that my h is being manipulative. I understand that, without seeing for yourself, living with him for all these years and knowing his foo, it does appear that way. From the outside I would think so too. Sometimes I do think that myself, I doubt, I question, I look for the actions.

MC yesterday was very eye opening, I felt like I gained some understanding of him, of what he is doing internally.

He has lived this way his whole life. Pushing back the emotion and running away as soon as the feelings threatened to surface. Anger is his "go to" emotion, his protection. His defense against his fear. He is afraid. He created this mess with his choices. If he wants to continue this marriage with me he must change.

He is changing, this is all new to him. He is not running from it. He still has a long way to go and he knows this.

His statement of, "I know I have not done enough" does not mean "I am choosing not to", it means I am doing more than I have ever been able to before, I am trying, I want to give you what you need, I am still learning, I am not giving up.

He said to me yesterday, "please be patient, you have been so patient, don't give up yet". He is trying, maybe not in my way but in his.

He is learning to feel. He has never allowed himself to feel. It is overwhelming. He feels and then he doesn't know what to do with it, hasn't a
clue as to how to express it. He did well in MC with some help.

He says that he wants his actions to come from him, he wants them to be from his heart. When he says,"I will", he is not procrastinating, he just doesn't have the instinct, it does not come naturally. What comes naturally is to run.

The biggest change, when he runs, he does not keep running, he comes back. He is recognizing what he is doing and trying to change it. He is beginning to show empathy and compassion. He is trying. He is learning in his way.

In MC yesterday, having MC, confirm to me, it made sense to me, helped me to be able to see and understand what is happening inside him. Helped me to see what h has trouble expressing. Helped me to see the changes that are happening internally.

When he says, "what about me?", he is not asking for more from me as I believed. He is saying, I am trying to change, look I am doing something I have never done in my life, I am facing myself and trying to learn to let out my feelings. He is, I see it. He talks to me now in a way that he never could before. He talks when in the past if it made him uncomfortable, made him feel he would shut it down. He is bringing up events from our past, events that he always minimized or blamed me for. He is taking responsibility and apologizing for them. He is looking at his whole life and facing who he was.

He does not want to be that man anymore. He wants to change. He is afraid, the emotions that I am able to express to him terrify him. He is sticking with it, sometimes he runs, but he comes back, we are beginning to be able to work through it, it doesn't get buried any longer.

That is progress. Baby steps. Not where I want to be but maybe heading in that direction.

One new thing, a sign of progress. I have twitches, physical jerks when I get the "pictures" in my head. He has always avoided it, tried to just comfort with a touch. Now he wants to know what they are and what I feel. He told me that is what I need to heal. He wants me to tell him what I see and talk about how it makes me feel, he said, " I want to help you, I may not do a good job with the words but I want to try". It may seem small but he is asking for my pain, not running from it. He is being proactive and thinking about what I need, what might help me. That is a big change for him.

Forward motion, change, that is what I need right now.

sisoon posted 11/12/2013 15:53 PM

I'm glad your H is moving in a positive direction. I can't help believing that the work you're doing to heal for and by yourself enables you to work with your H. The corollary, IMO, is that you won't be able to work with your H unless you continue working for yourself.

Are you continuing to work on yourself? (I'm assuming 'yes' but want to check.)

Flourgirl posted 11/13/2013 00:20 AM

Can't accept I could have written this myself. I am just beginning to understand how hard emotions are for my WH. I had no idea how closed off he was or why. It is so touching that they are trying something that is so difficult for them. They are facing their greatest fear out of love. They are trying and it's not easy.

WH is seeing a individual counselor that specializes in substance abuse. He knew after a few minutes my H was a survivor of FOO issues. It is so hard for him to deal within his emotions but he knows its worth it. He just started reading last week. It stirred up emotions he couldn't shut off. I feel bad he is so broken. He has hurt me and our family badly and he sees that. He hates what he became and now he's doing something to change it. Thank you for sharing this.

cantaccept posted 11/13/2013 04:57 AM

sisson,

Your words echo my IC/MC. My work on myself has been a driving force in the change that h feels compelled to make.

I actually have some control, not over him but over me.

My changes in me have given h a choice. Remain the same and the marriage fails or make the necessary changes to improve our communication and our marriage. Just the changes in one person effects the dynamics of the marriage.

Most of my struggle in seeing the changes in h come from my own lack of trust in myself. Something I am still working on. I still don't trust my perceptions and look for concrete action.

I have been letting fear influence me still but in a slightly different way. Instead of fearing his reaction to me and backing down, I fear slipping back to the old me. I fear that I am accepting too little, being too soft, burying my head and not seeing reality.

Instead of recognizing what he is doing, I have been focusing on what he isn't doing. Part of the reason that I couldn't recognize the internal shift is that we still are working on communicating, lots of misunderstandings. The one thing that I see is that I need to question him more when something he says disturbs me and not take it at face value.

Yes, I continue to work on me, it seems that it is not even a choice but a driving force inside of me. Now that I see what the possibilities of life are there is no way that I will ever stop.

Started reading about the drama triangle again, thank you for that. Also, found some info on the brain and the primitive responses. Liked that very much. I like understanding the instinctive responses and how to overcome the irrational.

Thanks for checking.

flourgirl,

It was so hard for me to understand the disconnect from emotions for my h. We are so opposite.

I have to keep reminding myself that it is a struggle for him to acknowledge his emotions, to express them, to even admit to them.

He sees this now and is trying. He has the desire and that is the most important element. His desire for change.

blakesteele posted 11/13/2013 05:44 AM

Yep....Sisoon rocks!

Hate to follow his lead...but here I go.

I know that many of you believe that my h is being manipulative. I understand that, without seeing for yourself, living with him for all these years and knowing his foo, it does appear that way. From the outside I would think so too. Sometimes I do think that myself, I doubt, I question, I look for the actions.

This is the danger to all SI members...we post from our vantage point. Other SI members only see our fWS through our words. Words make up less than 30% of our communication....so we see 70% more communication then our posts can reflect.

I can also attest to picking out only parts of what my wife is telling me (through words, body language, tones, cantor). Sometimes it takes me multiple passes through the same topic of conversation with my wife until I fully understand what she is trying to convey.

This is where Sisoon is nudging you....to keep working on yourself. It is a good reminder for me to keep working on myself.

I am anxious to work on US....but made the mistake of trying to work on us too early on and at the expense of hurting myself. I vowed never to do that again. But I do miss being in a safe loving relationship with my wife.....my own FOO issues play into this....a fact that I just discovered over the past 14 months and am growing through those issues.

I am very pleased your MC is a quality one. Our MC was good at IC sessions, but simply was not equipped to handle infidelity situations....we are limited in our selection due to the rural part of the state we live in. We are progressing even without a counselor....but do feel a bit of envy for those who actually found a MC that does more than ask......Okay, she said this, how does that make you feel? and He said this, what did you hear?

Keep posting!

God be with us all.

blakesteele posted 11/13/2013 05:50 AM

I have been letting fear influence me still but in a slightly different way. Instead of fearing his reaction to me and backing down, I fear slipping back to the old me. I fear that I am accepting too little, being too soft, burying my head and not seeing reality.

This deserved its own post. I share this same fear. I now look back on my M and wonder why I was so willing, so grateful to settle for what I had. It is helping in a couple of ways.

First, it is helping me process through the pain of having our original M slaughtered by my wifes adulterous activities. I no longer view our pre-A M as a healthy one that was fully satisfying. It had its flaws and was not meeting some of my needs.

Second, it is helping me expect more from MYSELF. I now know better and can do better. I see how my own actions hurt intimacy and did not meet the unspoken needs of my wife in our pre-A M either.

I have faith these two items will grow together and nurture a healthy, evolving, growing intimacy with my wife.

Fear is payment on a debt you don't currently have and may never incur. That quote helps me daily. Making decisions in a fearful state has real merit....if a tiger is running at you it is fear that triggers your response to run and escape. Thing is, much of our reality is NOT a tiger chasing us. Our perception may be that a tiger is chasing us but, really, most days fear of this nature is unwarranted. It feels good to be making decisions in the absence of fear....something that is relatively new to me. I have been one of those guys that plans for the worst...I am recognizing where I picked this up, how it has its place, how it can be unhealthy, and how to process past this singular mode of operation. AND IT FEELS GREAT!!!!!

Thanks for this post cantaccept.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 5:57 AM, November 13th (Wednesday)]

boots5050 posted 11/14/2013 08:35 AM

my dear wife
just came home from therapy and have to share my feelings with you
you've always asked me why songs do not bring up feelings in me, well, that changed this morning
on the way home I heard " I Will Always Love Your " by Whitney Houston, its about leaving
tears poured out of me, my only thought was, " what if I had lost you ", couldn't bear thinking about that, so I cried, I used to feel that you were better off without me, that you deserved more, this cuts deep inside of me, I want to be the one you love, nobody else, I want to be there for you in each and every way, I am typing very slowly so I do not lose this post, do not lose these feelings,
I want you to know how deeply sorry I am, I left you, I am so ashamed about the person I was, in so many ways this pain is mine as well as yours, my heart is broken, my head is fucked up
today I FEEL my love for you in such a tender way, and I don't deny it, I wish you were here right now with me, I miss you

StillStanding1 posted 11/14/2013 13:44 PM

Hey there, cantaccept....

Once again, your post is one that I can totally relate to. I am so glad that you seem to be on a productive path to healing (for both of you).

We've been making some similar baby steps forward. Have also taken some major backslides again, especially because of issues and interactions with our teenagers. (R is really hard when there are 5 people deeply involved, all with different feelings, motivations, and expected outcomes.)

Like you, I am trying to understand him better. Your post helped me clarify some of the wandering thoughts in my own head. Thank you!

Boots, very sweet. Keep on this good path. I am happy to hear of your progress and changes.

(((cantaccept)))

cantaccept posted 11/14/2013 19:20 PM

Dear husband,

These feelings that you have expressed here touched me so deeply and mean so much to me I feel I must respond publicly here.

Thank you. Your words have mended a piece of my heart.

I have come realize how hard it is for you to speak your emotions and also see how hard you are trying for us.

I love you and I am so proud of you for the strength it takes to face this.

I hope it's okay to put this here and not against any rules but it is a huge step for us.

I want to share the good too.

can

cantaccept posted 11/14/2013 19:25 PM

Stillstanding1,

I am happy that my thoughts have helped you. This is such a hard journey.

I cannot imagine how hard it must be with 3 teenagers. It's hard enough for us to understand each other without teenage opinions.

It really was sweet. It made me cry happy tears.

It felt like a gift.