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I feel sort of like hanging on by a thread lately with my husband. It’s just been such a long ugly road. The MC said Friday, "well you don’t have a good narrative."

Tonight he went to bed early, like 8:30. He sleeps in the basement and I sleep on the main floor. It’s because of his snoring. I went down to say good night at 9:00. I was feeling sweet at the time and thought it was good to share it with him. He was listening to an audiobook. I laid beside him and kissed him and said I just wanted to say good night.

The dog came down too and was looking like he wanted to get in the bed. He can get it when it’s anyone but my husband so he was confused. I admit that I thought it was kind of funny to tell the dog to jump in. And he did. Then I thought it was kind of funny how he left 3 paw prints at the foot of the mattress. So I was laughing. He just looked at me and said “you’re crazy”. At first I thought he meant it in a joking or sweet way. And I replied that I’m not really crazy. He looked a little serious and said “yeah, you kind of are” And then he said “you’re hard to live with”

I was floored and just said goodnight and headed upstairs. He asked why I was leaving. I just said “I don’t know what that means so I’m heading up”

He didn’t reply. He didn’t come talk about it. He didn’t text me. This is always how it is. He has never once been the one to come to talk through something. I always hold out as long as I can and then I’m the one to bring it up. Every time.

Am I over reacting? It’s just that there’s these things he says about how difficult I am or sometimes it’s something physical that he’ll freak out about and make me feel horribly self conscious about. One time it was the veins that show on my hands. One time it was something on my ear. I’m talking full recoiling in disgust.

My theme for being with this man is “I’m not that bad” I’ve been saying that to him, and then to myself, from the beginning. I’m so tired of it. I already feel like a fool for putting up with what I have. And now I feel like I’m married to someone who will always make me feel bad about myself.

You guys here don’t know me too well, but trust me when I say - I’m not that bad.

I’m sorry for the rant. I’m just so overwhelmed with it all right now. I have so little to go on to feel good about the marriage. I can’t believe this is how it is for me. Like my username, I truly deserve more.

Wow, what a douche he is for saying that to you, especially since he's the one who DESTROYED you by cheating already!

Honey, when he says something like that, perhaps you should consider pointing out that even tho he's got a small penis, you don't make fun of him for it! Or that you've never mentioned that he's not exactly winning the prize for longevity in the sack! Give him a taste of his own medicine for a change and see how he likes it!

Btw, are you in mc? Might need to bring this up and work on it!

[This message edited by ArkLaMiss at 11:32 PM, November 17th (Sunday)]

You don't sound bad at all.

And softly now

But are you staying with him to prove it to him or yourself?

You don't need his validation.

His way is a way of mental abuse. He keeps you wondering if what he says is true. That way you can't get strong enough to push him out of your life.

BTW "Vicks vapo rub" on the bottom of the feet, at night, covered by big ugly socks not only helps a bad cough but also helps snoring. At least it did for my H.

Not sure if it is available outside of Canada.

You are not over-reacting. His constant need to put you down is IMO, emotionally abusive.

But this got me...

I was floored and just said goodnight and headed upstairs. He asked why I was leaving. I just said “I don’t know what that means so I’m heading up”

He didn’t reply. He didn’t come talk about it. He didn’t text me. This is always how it is. He has never once been the one to come to talk through something. I always hold out as long as I can and then I’m the one to bring it up. Every time.

Why did you get up and walk away when he asked you what was wrong and then expect him to come after you to talk about it?

Next time call him on it. Let him know his words are hurtful.

I would get some IC for myself and hope he is getting some too.

It's very unhealthy :(

[This message edited by karmahappens at 11:38 PM, November 17th (Sunday)]

Haha love the penis part from ArkLaMiss.

Follow her instructions

She posted her reply while I was writing mine.

Love it!!!

That’s hilarious, his teeny penis. Actually it’s not teeny, but it has a half life of about 15 seconds so it may as well be. And I never make him feel bad about that or about the fact that he is balding.

So to answer your questions:

For a long time I was trying to prove myself to him. But it’s been years and my self esteem has slowly bounced back and I know I’m really ok. Plus, I have lots of friends and get invited to things. Basically, I get indications from the outside world that I’m ok.

I think I’m staying for the kids and because of just how hard splitting up is. But if I’m just plain honest with myself, it’s not because I want him.

Karmahappens, don’t worry at all about needing to be careful how you phrase something to me. I come from a mega blunt, confrontational family and I’m comfortable talking about just about anything. The reason I left after he asked me what was wrong is this: I’ve tried the pointing out that he’s hurt me thing before. He looks blankly, with no emotion and says “no, I didn’t mean anything by it” and it stops there. If I push further, then I’m difficult again and making a big deal out of it. That is how it goes.

So now I’m trying something I learned in the dog training class (works on kids too). When the dog does something wrong, you express it and then walk off. Remove all reinforcement. Like if a puppy bites you, you say “ouch” and literally turn on your heel. So I think that’s where I’m at now. Reduced to dog behavioral training to get my needs met from my husband.

Seriously, I wonder if I have the tendency to do this because I often feel there is something sadistic or hostile in his behavior. And I just don’t want to feed it any.

Oh, and yes we are in MC for about a year and a half. She is very good and respected in this city. She had a spiel she said at the beginning about how she has to have no interest in the outcome (staying together or not) but we’ve both gotten the feeling lately that she been rooting for us. I’m not sure I like it. It means she sometimes seems to be asking me to suck up a lot.

I'm pretty snarky so I think I couldn't have helped myself and responded with something like "yes, I am a hard person to live with when you lie, cheat and deceive me".

(((IDeserveMore))) can I share a secret? It's one I wish I'd known long ago: it's easier to leave a marriage than to endure ongoing marginalization and abuse. Sure, the logistics take some doing. But it's empowering.

Read your screen name. Take it to heart. (Or do what I did--really!!-- and get a message to yourself tattooed on your wrist to remind you :))

The things you mentioned--your veins on your hands and...your ear. Sounds like he has a true perception problem and it sounds automatically emotionally abusive. I bet he's been doing this in your relationship and you didn't notice nor pay attention. I think my xwf did the same thing to me, his father who traveled alot, did to xwf's (he travels alot too) mother. I didn't see it for a few years at all. I thought xwf was my HERO. Ugh.

Now that you see it, it's some type of thinking/behavior of his he developed years ago in FOO. Lots and lots of IC he'd need and I don't guarantee the outcome.

When I met swf I had also met and dated a guy who started "picking on me" on our 2nd date. What?! Our 2nd date?? I also noted it in our next phone conversation. Since I wasn't that young at the time(54) and it wasn't my first time with bad potential dates I called it for what it was. I also found out he hadn't talked to his mother in years and was proud of it. He was 60. It's my experience he has a problem with women (misogynist). His mother hadn't stopped his father from hitting him. He blamed his mother. So, I didn't want to have him take out his old problems on me as another woman. Maybe that's why he got divorced? I put a fair amount of thought into my decision, but fear of my sanity made me pay attention to my gut and act on it.

Of course, then xwf proved to be a jerk too, so that about sums it up for me... I could write a book about the men I've dated in my 50's...

Hugs. And listen to your gut. You absolutely are NOT hard to live with. WS is making up stories IMO to fit his agenda and it would be a hard one to crack.

[This message edited by Thinkingtoomuch at 9:51 AM, November 18th (Monday)]

IDeserveMore

I don't know you, but your most recent incident was so similar to many of mine with STBXH.

He has told me that I'm crazy, that I'm hard to live with, etc. etc.

I am NOT crazy, and I blasted him. I am NOT hard to live with, and I blasted him on that too.

He told me I was crazy, because HE was the one that had something wrong with him. He told me I was hard to live with because his first two wives both had some majorly serious self esteem issues and catered to his every whim. He still D his poor, pathetic first wife. She was blindsided. His second wife's self esteem was so badly damaged, that SHE had the affair and left. Then she begged him to take her back.

I didn't know any of this when I married him. He was the perfect man while I dated him and for the first year we were married.

I digress. Your H is the one with the problem. Not you.

I have learned from experience that leaving his stupid butt is the healthiest thing that I ever did. My only regret isn't not leaving him sooner but marrying him in the first damn place.

Men like these, who refuse to get help for themselves and acknowledge that they are the one with the problem, really the only thing you can do is run fast and hard.

If your H won't get help, nothing will change. Do you want to look back in another 10 years and have regret?

Or, is he getting the help that he needs?

[This message edited by StillLivin at 2:04 PM, November 18th (Monday)]

Thank you all so much. You all have great advice. And it helps to hear how this happened to other people. How it’s possible to be treated poorly and let it happen for a while with our realizing it. I’m sad it’s that way but hearing other perspectives is great, and easy to hear from people who aren’t involved in my day to day life.

His judgment started the instant we were married. He was complaining that I wasn’t making good enough meals and keeping the apartment just right. (He is a German neat freak). No amount of me explaining led him to understand that I was - in a foreign country, not speaking the language at all, having zero friends and having a new born and my dog. I would tell him that I sometimes made mistakes buying ingredients if I didn’t understand the label or went by the picture only. He never understood, He always said that if it were him, he could do it. That is how he feels about anything I don’t do well or struggle with. Deep down,he thinks he can do better.

Our MC got us to the point one day where I got him to admit that for all of our marriage he thought he was better than me. He admitted it. Lately he’s been backing off from that, maybe only in what he says, because his actions don’t show it.

His has just a ton of FOO issues. Just some highlights:

- Incredibly selfish mom - he admits this and talks about it a lot

- Emotional neglect growing up

- Parents were swingers and stayed in a loveless marriage from when he was a kid until he was 18, they switched off partners without hiding it from the kids

- Uninvolved dad with anger problems and explosive/physical outbursts

- 1 brother that he was never ever close to and they literally beat each other up

- Family so non confrontational that you can be calm and clear as day, but if what you are saying is uncomfortable, they will actually act like you didn’t speak, or just cry and end the conversation

So it’s been an uphill battle and I feel like I’ve had the patience of a saint and I’ve spent years teaching him about empathy. He admits it was never taught to him and he admits he just doesn’t know how to have it.

Blech, I think I just typed-vomited. I must have a ton of resentment. It’s raining outside but maybe I should get out for a run. All this processing is busting my chops.

Hi, IDeserveMore

I read your profile. Interesting. It sounds like you have some real choices to make. Your WS sounds like he has some deeply entrenched confusing FOO issues. So now that you see more, you must take care of you. I don't see where he's been monogamous for long. And he's quite critical. Has/will he do IC? Have you done MC together? His is a firmly set character issue and this would be a long road for you.

Good luck.