======== Time Line ==========
H starts fantasizing about a coworker whom he mentors
H & OW - Due to joint projects spend more time in each other’s offices.
H buys a ton of new clothes and tells me it is what all the young kids wear. Later that night, I ask him while we are in bed, who is trying impress and is he having a mid-life crisis? He denies both. I tell him that I am concerned.
A week later he sends his first text to her congratulating her on how well she ran the meeting. (Obviously, fishing to see how she responds.) She responds with “I guess we have advanced to texting now!”
H said we were like roommates, I freeze. I asked him what was he doing to help our marriage? He shrugs and storms off. I know that isn’t good, so I called my mom and told her my H is stressed and we really need a weekend off from the kids. She agrees to watch them and I make massage appointments and get tickets for a show in town.
H & OW have what he calls the first personal conversation. He tells her that this weekend, I have made plans to help us reconnect, but he isn’t excited about it. She responds with “Well, let me know if you need someone to talk to, as my parents are divorced and I can give you my experience.”
We get massages, we have a nice dinner, & we go the show. That night I directly tell him, “I think you have a workplace crush, tell me about it.” He denies. I ask him “What is going on with you?” He answers that he is just stressed. I tell him that “I want to fight for our marriage and not let it fizzle. I am not afraid of divorce, but do not invite a third person into it. Do not make it messy. We have kids, I want to be able to sit next to you at their games and marriages. Talk to me.” I reword these phrases several times trying to get him to talk. Finally, he rambles on about work and that he just really busy. We attempt to have sex, but end up fighting. We end up having a really good sex.
At lunch, I ask him if he feels like fighting for us or not, he responds with “Yes, I want to fight for us.” HOURS LATER he sends a text to the OW, saying “Yeah, if it isn’t to strange, I would like to talk to you.” They text back and forth. In the texts, he basically calls the weekend a bust and that I am talking about a divorce and that we had really bad sex.
More texting about how checked out of the marriage he is. They feed each other’s egos and tell each other how hot they are and how much alike they are and basically, start talking about an affair. She wished that I approved of an open marriage, so no one would get hurt
She invites him to her apartment, he goes. He continues to talk bad about me and our marriage. They kiss and they determine that they are going to proceed and she wants to be his mistress.
June 12, 13
He heads out of town for work, they google chat each night. She invites him to her apartment for a quickie during their lunch on Friday. He accepts.
June 14 He flies home that morning to see us, to shower, and grab Viagra. They sleep together at lunch while I am buying his father’s day gift. I see the phone bill online that morning and wonder about the phone number. That night I notice a Viagra pill is missing and when I see his phone, oddly all texts from that number have been deleted. I realize have a WH, fear is all I can feel.
I confront and DDay happens. He immediately decides he is going to fight for our marriage and hands over emails and their chats. I restore all deleted text messages and know just about everything. He researches MC and writes me the first letter.
============End of Time Line ========
What I cannot let go is that I asked him BEFORE they even decided to pursue an affair. He told me that he was going to FIGHT. He KNEW that I was onto him and he still WENT FORWARD! I TOLD him not to bring a third person into the marriage. HE STILL DID IT?!!?!
I cannot let this go.....we had a CONVERSATION about this, he KNEW where I stood.
I feel like I was reaching out to him, trying to save our marriage before the affair, and he pushed me out of the way to get to her. He says that he was just so wrapped up in her because “she was willing to sleep with him” that he didn't want me to ruin it. He felt that he would resent it if he did not sleep with her. He said he was obsessed and had a one-track mind. He realizes now that was the wrong thing to do and feels remorseful. BUT HE STILL DID IT?!!?
Please help me understand. Did he do it out of selfishness, knowing he was stabbing me in the back? Was he already in the fog and it would not have mattered what I had said? Could he have been that obsessed? Or is this a special kind of evil?
Maybe if I hear it from someone different or if someone did the exact same thing it would help.
Please help me with this.
[This message edited by ILINIA at 10:30 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)]
Your DH has to figure out what he was trying to avoid through his little flirtation, or what boundaries he needs to set up. He was clealry open to this... Why? Why did he not turn to you? I'm glad he's agreed to MC, and don't let him shift blame to you. This is all on hm.
After I submitted this I walked away in tears to talk to WH. Last night and tonight I have decided to sleep in the guest room, so we chatted and I tried to keep it civil. I have been in a rage for a week, so we both need a break.
Infuriating is a good word. Tonight asked him again to tell me what was going through his head. He said that he thought there was a good chance that he would be rebuffed, so he sent the text on June 9th so he could supposedly put the obsession to rest. So when she encouraged the relationship he lost his head and delved in. God, I hate all of this.
I was hoping anyone would have responded and you guys did. My tears started again when I read your posts....thank you.
Ilinia, only you can only figure out what happened not why it did. Only your husband can decode himself. As your time line already spells out exactly what happened, what you now have to do is accept what you already know happened and that is what is hurting you so badly. You have to try to accept that he wanted to do it enough that nothing you could have said or done was going to stop him. I think what your husband told you in the first place was the 100% unvarnished truth (of that time).
He says that he was just so wrapped up in her because “she was willing to sleep with him” that he didn't want me to ruin it. He felt that he would resent it if he did not sleep with her. He said he was obsessed and had a one-track mind.
I think you have all of the what happened right there. He did it in spite of what you said. At the time, he was selfish enough that he didn't want you to ruin it for him no matter the cost to either of you. In his own words he said he 'knew that she was willing to sleep with him' and it appears that what you said actually helped him lay more groundwork to do that. He used what you said so he could say to her 'my wife actually wants a divorce anyway' and justify it all to her and himself. To me he has been very honest in admitting this to you and I do think it speaks of his genuine remorse for it, in that he was being honest with you now.
All he can give you now is that genuine remorse because he's already done it. He can't change it and neither can you. All he can do is help you to heal, offer his remorse, and try to understand why he was prepared to betray you and risk everything to get what he wanted at the time. It is all on him to figure this out ILINIA - not you. In my opinion him now saying that;
he thought there was a good chance that he would be rebuffed, so he sent the text on June 9th so he could supposedly put the obsession to rest. So when she encouraged the relationship he lost his head and delved in.
...is damage control and his fear talking - and that, once again, is a sign that he now knows just how wrong what he did was. I really do think what he said first is probably more true of what happened. The fact that he knew she would was probably a big part of why he continued on despite all you said and why he couldn't resist it - and now he is the one that has to figure out why he prepared to risk everything for that. You can't do it ILINIA, only he can decode himself.
I really hope he's doing that work in IC and showing you that he's just as determined now to do right by you, as he was to do wrong in the past. If he is, try to focus on that if you can. (((hugs)))
Your experience proves that wayward thinking defies all logic. I know I have driven myself crazy trying to make sense of the mess I find myself in! I'm trying to accept that I will never understand.
...he didn't want me to ruin it.
This speaks volumes to me. Just like my WH, I think your H had a sense of entitlement. He deserved this experience. It is totally an act of selfishness. They were not considering us at all, not listening to us.
See how easily your H rewrote your marital history. Just goes to show it didn't matter how invested you were, how fabulous you were. You were open, honest and accommodating. It really had nothing to do with you at all.
Our OW is a total nut job and a good friend told me this when they realised we knew her and she was friendly with H. I told him. The opinion of someone he respects and he doesn't even remember the conversation. Why didn't he listen?
This affair fog is very powerful stuff even when your and my FWHs were just at the EA stage
We just have to hope they sort out their boundaries and their brokenness so any future opportunities are headed off at the pass. Because that's what has to happen. I've never been propositioned in 17 years of M. Not because I'm unattractive (which was my first thought) but because I am not giving out an available/vulnerable message.
Much love ILINIA
"We're not broken, just bent. We can learn to love again."
I have read about what some call the "reptile brain", that part of our brain that operates at a very basic emotional and hormonal level. It appears to me your H was acting from that place. He got caught up in that hormonal place and all his higher instincts were drowned out. It's extremely immature and selfish, but not necessarily an indication of his true feelings or true self. In other words, he was behaving like a horny teenager--we all know how unreliable they are!
I also have observed that people have a very strong impulse to rationalize what they want at any given time. They lie to themselves more than anyone. However, if a person really does the work to become selfaware and honest with themselves I believe that they can change.
You showed amazing insight and nipped the A quickly in the bud. Frankly I don't think your H is any worse than any other WS because he went ahead after you spoke with him. People on here have WSs that met with their AP while they were in the hospital, having their baby, sick with cancer, in the other room. They all managed to justify outrageous behavior, while operating on their bases impulses.
People are flawed. Now, once they are forced to look at themselves, what do they do? That's the true measure of a person, IMHO.
Best of luck to you.
Your words have helped me tremendously. It was comforting because you knew my WH. Words like entitled, selfish, not having an honest relationship in his life were all true. I just don't know HOW to accept or get past this. My IC will ask, "But is he that guy now?" And I answer, "He has been that guy for 40 years. He's only shown me a few months that he COULD be someone different. How would you place your bet? Heck, isn't safer to take my cards off the table and be done."
Sinsofthefather & Catlover - I am trying to see it as "the past", but holy crap that is hard! He has let me in his head completely and honestly, which is good, but hard to hear. Even harder to accept. Thank you again for making me feel like there wasn't anything I could do and that his lies are on track with most WH and wasn't a "special kind of evil". I have the book about the reptile brain on my iPad. I think it is "Getting the love you want" I may have to read it more closely the second time.
I still hate all of this.
[This message edited by ILINIA at 6:28 AM, November 20th (Wednesday)]
One of the hardest things to accept for me is just how totally unfair this is and how I had absolutely no control over it. In some ways it would be easier if I could look and say--there, if I had done this or not done that it would have been different. But no. I did all I could. Nothing mattered until HE was ready to look deep inside and do the work. And to do that he first had to destroy part of me and see the results.
I am further out and for me, 14 months is much better than 5. Hang in there!
After DD, I found out all those things that gave me a gut feeling over the years, things that H dismissed, actually WERE dangers to our marriage. I don't have good advice, but maybe it helps to know others are struggling with the same frustrations. I don't think there's any way to explain how people can be so selfish. It almost seems like in order to successfully R, the BS has to have a measure of maturity and generousity that is equal to the amount of immaturity and selfishness the WS had. There is no fairness in the equation at all.
Latest DD - April 2013, PA
My h was having an ea, I found out, begged him to please, let's go for counseling.
He was telling me how terrible he had always been and how I deserved more. I pleaded with him, don't you see, now that you are acknowledging the need for change it is our chance to get it right? To get real help?
No, he was already gone, only admitting to his bad behavior a a justification for leaving me. He was doing me a favor by leaving in his mind.
He didn't leave me because he cared about me, he left because he wanted to f her and i was irrelevant.
He was only trying to ease his guilt.
Sorry for th t/j tough morning...
dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
I attempted R, he was a lie
Ilinia, I don't think your H is evil. He just showed strong powers of denial and justification. Does he have a history of twisting the facts to make himself look good, refusing to face unpleasant things, or being stubborn when he's wrong? He's willing to work on being brutally honest with himself, right? It's like learning to give yourself two-by-fours.
My situation is different, but I also could tell something was wrong right away. From the moment he crossed the EA line with OW, my H became angry, blaming and incapable of rational thought. In the real world, he's brilliant and emotionally insightful, but in affair-land, he's dumb as mud.
For three months between their first kiss and sex, I repeatedly asked him what was wrong and he told me it was me. He said we weren't having as much sex as he wanted. I discussed this with him openly--how we could make more time, what would put me in the mood, etc. I proceeded to work on it (initiate every other day, focus on him, new lingerie etc.). He was still miserable and now blamed it on me being too critical. I worked on more affection, more compliments. He continued to either withdraw or lash out.
I got him a recommendation for a counselor, who he didn't call (until d-day). I suggested he see his doctor about potential depression. I checked out books about "Irritable Male Syndrome" and mid-life-crisis. At one point, he told me, "We fight all the time." I said, "We aren't fighting. You are venting about my faults and dumping on the marriage. I am trying to help you. That's not a fight."
I asked him whether he was cheating, he said no. I was available, understanding--everything. He could have just told me that he had kissed this COW and now she was pressuring him for sex. He did not admit the stress he was under at work at that time or the panic he was feeling due to a FOO situation. Instead, he had to make it all my fault. He couldn't stand to admit that he was being a jerk so it had to be me. He wouldn't have gotten into this A unless our marriage was awful etc.
For three months of scrambled thinking and blame shifting, I tried my damnedest to pull H's head out of his ass and failed. He went and had sex with OW anyway.
Your spouse's infidelity: You didn't cause it, you can't prevent it, you can't fix it. The wayward has all the responsibility.
He walked into it wide-eyed. He is deeply remorseful now, but he was definitely in that crazy fog. He told me he was absolutely selfish, that he felt entitled, blah blah, and that there was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that I could have done to prevent the A from happening. It was not because I neglected him, or that I was a bad wife. It was because he was a bad husband.
What I was realizing last night is that the A for him was about validation... classic MLC. But it was not because I didn't validate him as a man. I adored him and I told him so every day. I told everyone we knew how he was the greatest man who ever lived. I was devoted to him. I knew something was 'off', but I trusted him, because I believed he was trustworthy.
What he wanted validated was that part of him that was tired of living up to what everyone expected him to be. He wanted to be free of responsibility, free of obligation, free of promises, free of having to think of anyone but himself. The OW puffed up and validated all of those feelings in him, and told him they were GOOD. She drew out the very worst parts of him - a cheater, a liar, a person who would humiliate the woman who trusted and loved him and would put his wife's life in danger, a person who would jeopardize his children's security and stability - and then told him he was amazing.
I think when they get to the point that they are able to see what they have done, they are often dreadfully sorry. But they go into it because they want to, and they don't tell us because they don't want to be stopped. It is a special kind of cruelty, that is for sure.
It makes R hard, because I feel like I communicated the deal breaker and drew the line in the sand BEFORE he did this. He knew where the line was and crossed it, so is that it? If I say, "Oops, you were in a fog, let's redraw the line and give you a second chance." Am I being weak and being taken advantage of?
[This message edited by ILINIA at 1:22 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)]
Oops, you were in a fog, let's redraw the line and give you a second chance." Am I being weak and being taken advantage of?