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OldCow18 posted 11/20/2013 11:01 AM

What does your day to day or even week to week look like? How often do you talk about the A/the marriage? How often do you fight? How often do you go days without speaking at all? What is your WS doing daily/weekly to help you heal? How often does your WS get defensive and angry? What were some of your conditions? Did they fight you on them, drag their feet or were they more than happy to do whatever it takes? If they are doing all the right things, did that start immediately or did it take some time for the fog to lift? If they work/worked together, what did WS do to alleviate the fears associated with seeign AP every day?

I find I'm going insane wondering if this is just the normal rocky road of post A life, if I am asking way too much re: help in healing, or if what I feel is really true, that there is a severe lack of remorse/understanding and effort. I'm fairly certain I know the answer, but I want to be sure while staring into the eyes of that reality.

[This message edited by OldCow18 at 11:12 AM, November 20th (Wednesday)]

ascian posted 11/20/2013 11:40 AM

Mine looks pretty good compared to many. I caught the affair early, my wife has been fully remorseful, no TT or other avoidance behaviors, and we're both committed to reconciliation.

So, no big blowup fights. We've had disagreements and conflicts, but for the first time in years we're both making an effort to listen and be honest with each other. Our MC helped us find some strategies that work with both of our personalities for this.

No days without speaking, we're both very conscious of that. She uses that behavior as punishment, and my wife has had trouble allowing herself to get angry with me over legitimate things let alone punishing me since D-Day (and yes, we're working on that). For me, following the birth of my second child I withdrew from the relationship with my wife and focused solely on being a dad (There's reasons for that, but not pertinent to your question), so I'm making every effort I can to stay engaged in our relationship as well.

What we're doing is talking, a lot. That communication has really made my healing and our marriage's healing possible. It's not a one-way street, we're both putting in the work and building new habits. Pre-affair we both thought our marriage was a good and healthy one. Now, though, we can see what was broken and how that contributed to my wife's affair. I'm not saying that I take any ownership of the affair, mind you, just that I recognize my own failings as well as my wife's.

As for conditions: Immediate NC with the OM. Marriage counseling. Transparency, though I agreed that there would be transparency for both of us. While I needed to see her online activities, I wanted her to know that IMHO she has the same right to know my own simply by being a partner in the marriage. We have our private areas, but not our secret ones (ie. I have passwords and info for all of her online accounts, and she mine, but some we know have private thoughts and journals and we've agreed not to bring things we find there into general discussion unless we feel it's absolutely necessary.)

Lunch now with coworkers, so I'll address the rest in an hour or so.

ILINIA posted 11/20/2013 11:51 AM

His actions make me feel guilty for my lack of action.

Dday was five months ago.

Fromday one He follows my lead. If I want to talk the entire night, he will. If I want to scream at him for two hours, he will take it. If I want to ignore him, he will give me space. In generally, we talk every night. It sometimes evolves into me raging at him. If we have a lot of tough nights he will ask if we can have a night off soon. He does not get defensive. If I push him, he can get angry, but realizes it quickly and lets it dissapate.

He sends me texts and almost a letter a day. He tells me his schedule and if he has any meetings with women alone. He changes his hours so we can eat together as a family. hes reduced his travel schedule. At home, he is helping around the house and after the kids go to bed he wait to see how I want to approach the night.

They used to work together, but he has switched teams. That was a requirement for R. He switched mid-august and we began R in October. Only rarely is he on an email that they both are on. He will forward me any communicants that they are included on. This is about once a week. He hasn't seen her for over a month, but knows NC mand he must let me know as soon as he can. their supervisors know, so i dont think she is eager to make contact either. There are two caferterias. normally she isnt in his, but one day she was and he ignored her and took his lunch back to his desk. He has transition to the thought that it was the worst choice of his life, so he hates being reminded of it. He wants her to leave.

He's never fought me on any of my requests. One night I made him type out everything he was sorry for because I was tired of hearing him say "I'm sorry about everything" I said type what "everything" is. He did, I have pages of apologies of even the little stuff he did, like walk out of his way to go past her office.

He surrendered immediately and started working with me, but since they worked together he couldn't step back and see how it was killing me. Once he switched roles, I would say it took about two weeks for him to really get it. That was about 2.5 months in. After seeing the switch in him, IMHO I cannot see how anyone could move forward if the are still working together. If they are on a team, it cannot be stricly professional 24/7 anything can be said like "is it still raining?" and short conversation would start. Hell no. But how can you prevent everyday statements? He said it would be torture to have to see her and be reminded of how pathetic they both were.

He's perfect now, just I can't unsee him.

(On ipad so lots of typos)

Eta. Fully transparent. I have all password and access to everything. I required it, but I can't say I even look at it anymore unless I am bored. I haven't had any suspicions or gut feelings that he is doing anything other than what he is saying.

[This message edited by ILINIA at 12:18 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)]

marlie2014 posted 11/20/2013 11:54 AM

I have found since telling my family and coworkers (just the ones in my immediate dept.) about it, it has lifted some of the pressure from me. I'm about 2.5 months post D-Day, so it has taken me up until now to be able to get all the way through a whole day without crying (although I still do most days). Until about a week or two ago, I would go to work and go home and have absolutely no idea what I had done at work all day or how I had even gotten home. Just a blur.

My WS, however, is not helping me heal, so this post may not help you. He has moved out and we will likely be divorcing in the spring. He did not want to meet my conditions...which were not unreasonable.

Also, there was not an "AP," but rather a long series of one-night stands. No "fog" in this case.

You're not going insane. But it will take time.

Peaches2013 posted 11/20/2013 11:55 AM

Mine is probably different because it involved alcoholism. D-Day was in June, it was a ONS, short EA, I found out and confronted him, he came clean. A couple of months later, I sent him an e-mail with a list of all of the questions in my mind and asked for honest answers. He answered every lingering doubt and question, fully, no holds barred.

It's also a bit different because I've had a fairly rough year, and the months since the ONS have just been even more stressful - we had to find new daycare, my parents agreed to fill the gap and then my dad got sick, we worked around the gap time until both kids were full time, and then last month my dad died...so not only have I been dealing with the roller coaster of my husband's alcoholism, ONS, EA...it's been really really rough.

How often do we talk about the A - rarely at this point. We talk about our marriage often.

How often do we fight - squabble...eh...once a week? Fight - once a month?

What does he do to help me heal? He's completely stepped up to the plate. I set conditions for staying in the marriage when I found out - he had to stay sober and active in recovery, and that has helped our marriage out because one of the biggest problems in our marriage is that I had checked out because he was an alcoholic. A selfish, self centered, needy, narcissistic, self absorbed alcoholic. So yep, I checked out when I was the only parent to our two children, the full time maid and chef, and he still expected me to worship at his feet on how wonderful he was when he took out the trash.

His actions started immediately, even before I confronted him, because the fall out of his at least drunken actions had already started - he had a friend tell him he was no longer welcome to his house because he acted inappropriately. But he was still in a fog when I confronted him because he wanted to text the OW to tell her that I knew and he couldn't talk to her any more. He quickly saw the lack of sense involved in that...

They don't work together but they share a hobby. He stopped attending their weekly and monthly meetings and events. He had some out of town activities, not involving her at all but the hobby, that he had planned that were removed from the calendar. He's trying to determine if he can ever return or if his actions completely ruined it for him - he's very remorseful and disgusted with his actions and her.

When I asked him if he wanted to move forward married or not, I told him things were going to change. Honesty is important. Communicating feelings is important. Being involved in the marriage is important. We've both committed to it - it isn't easy.

OldCow18 posted 11/20/2013 12:10 PM

Thank you everyone, you are all confirming that I am not, in fact, crazy.

Ilinia,

their supervisors know,

How did their supervisors find out and how did they react?

And Marlie, your post DOES help as it helps me to understand what happens when a WS doesn't step up to the plate. I'm sorry for your situation

[This message edited by OldCow18 at 12:12 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)]

marlie2014 posted 11/20/2013 12:25 PM

Thanks oldcow, glad I could help a little.

I will try to clarify that it's not necessarily that my WS is completely unremorseful and wants to continue being a WS. His problem is that he is clearly a sex addict and perhaps has not yet hit 'rock bottom' in order to see the need to wake up and get help.

Odd though it may sound, it was he who decided to move out so that he 'can't hurt me anymore,' as he fears he will be unable to stop this compulsive behavior. At first I doubted this and felt he had an ulterior motive, but I believe now that his fear is very real. He fears revealing shameful secrets to a therapist and also fears that after years of battling it in secret, he will cause me more pain and misery in the future now that I would be watching for signs that he'd had yet another ONS.

Right now he's trying to make up for it in a backwards sort of way by doing tons of repairs to the house and making it 'safe' for me to live in alone. He's painting this week, which will probably be the final bit of work on the house. He's also agreed to have my name only on the title. He has bent over backwards to make the separation easier on me so far. So maybe I shouldn't say he's 'not doing anything to help me heal,' but we're not working towards R either.

ILINIA posted 11/20/2013 12:26 PM

Part of my condition to R if he was going to stay at that company was that WH had to come clean to his superiors...all the way to the top. That is four levels and five people. I wanted to make sure he owned it and that he would be held accountable. Perk is that she is now accountable as well, because HR knows. I do a little dance when I think of that.

He told them individually. It was a humbling experience to own up to ones mistakes, especially since he was pretty high in the company. Two of them weren't surprised and noticed that they spent a lot of time together. (I was miffed because for guys to notice this, it must have been a lot of time they were together. Why couldn't one of them tell him to "knock it off"? He felt like and idiot that it was obvious, since he thought no one would have guessed, because they were SOO secretive and professional. (puke) It also woke him up how immature he was. He was a mentor to her, so he felt stupid and very unprofessional. Finally!)

Anyway out of the people that he told, two of them must have had similar pasts, a one said "That is a mistake I can understand." and the other said "Do what you can to reconcile. It will be worth it." It is sad how often it happens and people just let it.

Anyway, after he told them, he was on a new team within 48 hours. I don't think the company wants to be involved either, so they supported the change enthusiastically. Between HR and the leadership, some of them were at our wedding, so it makes me mad that he was an idiot, but I feel it is a good trade. It puts another layer of protection on our marriage and they will keep a eye on the OW, she has to walk a straight line now.

[This message edited by ILINIA at 12:30 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)]

OldCow18 posted 11/20/2013 12:31 PM

Yes, yes yes, now I remember, we discussed this before...

Was he afraid of losing his job over it? I've been wanting WH to fess to his (their) boss but he keeps hiding behind the whole career suicide BS. I don't buy it. He's just a coward who isn't willing to be even slightly uncomfortable over his actions.

ascian posted 11/20/2013 12:47 PM

I find I'm going insane wondering if this is just the normal rocky road of post A life

I don't know that there's a tight range of "post A life." I think there are generalities, but people are different enough that I think it's hard to generalize what you "should" be feeling or seeing from your partner.

I don't know if anything I posted helps or hurts.

OldCow18 posted 11/20/2013 12:48 PM

It helps immensely ascian. Thank you.

OldCow18 posted 11/20/2013 12:55 PM

I'm grasping at straws, I know the truth of what is going here. Just extra needy of some reassurances these days, go figure. Thanks everyone, I can feel myself getting stronger each day.

ILINIA posted 11/20/2013 13:08 PM

He wasn't afraid of losing his job because there was no ethics clause more his reputation. I borrowed wise words from an SIer:. You choose to shit where you eat, now it's time to own it and clean it up.

I also said, well, heck, if we D I'm not going to be shy and protect you. Hell, everyone will know, so by you telling IS damage control.

I'm sure they are already aware, so it will be taken as some one who wised up and matured.