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How much leeway with TT?

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TheAmazingWondertwin posted 11/20/2013 17:22 PM

My WH and I hit a serious roadblock last week and are gently picking up the pieces.
I am not sure wether to call it Dday number 2 or just TRickle Truth Tornado. There wasn't another A- just the truth about broken NC in the beginning and some real facts about their relationship that I had no idea about. Felt worse than D day.
In order to work on it, he started a timeline. We worked through pretty much each minute and I stopped to ask details along the way. I was very happy with the way he stepped up and didn't deflect or defend- he just answered and sai e wa sorry and has redoubled his efforts at reassurance and comfort. We have had a great two days.
But- we only got halfway through te timeline and I had to stop him. It was just too much. I have processed the new info and feel a new crash coming on. He knows- i told him we would need to talk again- to finish the "story" and to keep me from falling down the rabbit hole again. He made it clear that we would as soon as I am ready- all I have to say is "go"
So I'm at that point. The anxiety has crept back in- my hamster wheel is running full speed with new questions and I found myself yelling at my steering wheel again on my way home. All signs that it is time to talk again. Oh heavy sigh.
So here is the thing- I understand trickle truth an know it happens. The fog keeps them secretive, then the shame, then they try to protect us from more pain... Blah blah blah.
I learned first hand when I discovered phone records and confronted him.
So I know more is coming. He says there are no more major surprises- bit some of his story and the times just aren't adding up. Some of it just doesn't make sense. He has said he will talk an there may be some small things that are going to be hard- I'm ready. If I didn't want to know, if I thought everythiing was kosher- I wouldn't be asking him.
So- going into the conversation- I know I will get more tickle truths- how much should I except? And for how long? What are your experiences with trickle truth? Is ther like an open window of time were he should be able to divulge all or do I just say enough at some point?
I know these are all things I need to decide for myself- but hearing others experiences always helps give me a little strength and perspective.

sisoon posted 11/20/2013 18:19 PM

Remember - you can't get all the truth 'at once' simply because it takes time to tell the story. Also, and probably more important, your WS can't read your mind. At best he'll tell everything that is important to him and that he thinks is important to you. He won't be 100% right, so if you ask questions, you'll get new information.

Definitely more important is that you'll do OK with stuff that seems important to you now, but as time goes on, other things may grow in importance to you, but you never asked about them before. If you ask, you'll get new info.

This sort of slow rolling out of info may not be - probably isn't - TT. An example: doing the TL, which was pretty soon after D-Day, my W mentioned that one day she visited ow's apartment for dinner with her family and then adjourned to ow's bedroom for petting.

A year later, this hit me - she effed around with ow in her marital BR while ow's H and child were at home. I identified with owH and freaked. This was new info to me, and initially I thought it was TT. In fact, my W had told me all the facts much earlier - this was just the first time I put the facts together in this way. It wasn't TT.

TT is a slow revelation of important facts...

It was just and EA. Now you know the whole story ...(days/weeks/months pass) well, we kissed once and that's all ...(days/weeks/months pass) well, now I remember a bj ...(days/weeks/months pass) or 2 ...(days/weeks/months pass) oh, yeah, I forgot. we fucked nce ...(days/weeks/months pass) from Friday night through Monday morning... etc.

TheAmazingWondertwin posted 11/21/2013 05:20 AM

Thank you so much.
So I gues for me, the new info that hit hard was:

The A lasted much longer than I had realized- by more than a month. He told one month - it was more like three.

They didn't just have sex twice. Two occasions- multiple times.

He thought she might be his soulmate. That was new.

Broken NC all the way through August - and he lied repeatedly about it through September an October.

The huge one- their bond was created because he needed someone to vent to about me. That's what they did for the first month- dissected me and all of my faults. At the time- he said she listened and "understood" and comforted him.

Initially, he had made it seem as if he didn't really want her or like her. He made it sound like they had sex once and ha hated it and then once more because he felt threatened.
All of this turned out to not be the truth at all.

What you have said makes sense. I know what happened- but yes- getting the details and then processing through them has brought more questions. And, as you said, things that I thought I was okay with are starting to burn a hole in my brain.

There were other details- the make out sessions leading up to the sex- his thoughts while deceiving me and pursuing her. Plans for nights in the city and a work event for her( he didn't go to any, thankfully).

They argued quite a bit- which bothers me.
What kind of connection did they have that made it okay for them to argue so much? She actually got angry at him when he spoke highly of me or told her he couldn't see her because he was doing something with me. What gave her that right?

I'm not sure where I'm going with this reply- I guess I jut felt the need to work trough it. I'm a little lost right now- and I really don't like the feeling.

confused615 posted 11/21/2013 05:32 AM

That is a lot of new information to process. Im so sorry. I would consider all of that a new dday. It's good that he is willing to be so sucks that he couldn't do it immediately.

How much to accept? It's up to you.

We always tell new BS's that TT is is broken NC. I hate that we tell them it's normal. IMO, it's continued abuse. Only now the WS has seen exactly how their affair has hurt their BS..yet choose to lie and break NC anyway.

You don't have to accept any of it.

But you will. So did I. *sigh*

No real advice this morning. Just understanding. Im so sorry he keeps dropping bombs on you.


KatieG posted 11/21/2013 05:41 AM

The good news is he is coming clean and is willing to tell you all.

A similar thing happened to me, I was worried that it would be a one off discussion and as he said "we'll put it all behind us". However the process of him confessing, unburdened him and now we can talk it about it whenever if I have any questions.

You have a chance now to write down ALL your questions and things that don't make sense to you. Then you can do it again, if there are more.

Once I had the full story and was satisfied he would tell me stuff, I realised I didn't need to know every single minute of every day. I knew I could ask if there was something - and then it fitted. The more that fits and makes sense to you the more reassured you will be he is committed to R.

This is a good step forward, painful but positive.

TheAmazingWondertwin posted 11/21/2013 06:06 AM

Thank you so much confused and KatieG-
It helps to hear that this is all part of the process. We are going to talk again tonight. He is really being understanding and supportive and let me know that we can talk anytime.
And the timeline we went through last week has answered some questions an filled in some blanks.
I am terrified if our discussion tonight but he has told me that it will not be the same as last week. I believe that because last week I presented phone records and busted him for NC and for lying about the time frame.
Now- I feel he is being honest and we just need to get through the rest of the story.
I wih I could just curl up in a ball and wait to feel better- physically and emotionally. I will get there.

Thank you all so much for reaching out and holding me up. I am so grateful that people here are generous enough to hare their pain in order to help others. It restores my faith in humanity.
Hugs to all of you and wishes for peace.

confused615 posted 11/21/2013 07:32 AM

I know it's really painful right now. And it will be for some time. You will have to reprocess everything. but,the good news is, it won't take you as long as it did after dday#1. Things will make sense now. The puzzle pieces will fit,and will come together to give you more clarity and insight into his mindset at the time..and his willingness to talk so openly about it will not only help you because,obviously, you need the truth in order to understand and move forward..but his willingness to give you what you need will help you heal at a faster pace. It will still hurt. You will be angry..very angry. Once the shock wears off and the reality sets *in* you will most likely be more angry than sad for awhile. And that is OK. Make sure you share your feelings with him. The good and the bad. He needs to be fully aware of exactly how his actions have affected you. Not because you want to hurt him, but because he needs to understand what he has done..and so he can help you when you need him. He can't help if he doesn't know what is going on in your head and your heart. As long as he is remorseful, and patient, the bad times won't last as long..and eventually there will be more good than bad.

R is a process. It's long and painful. But you can be happy again. I think the two of you are on the right path to a very successful R.

Hugs to you. Be kind to yourself today.

ETA: Maybe I missed it,but has he sent another NC email to OW? Has he changed his number yet?

[This message edited by confused615 at 7:34 AM, November 21st (Thursday)]

niaveone posted 11/21/2013 07:43 AM

After DDay#2, my WS gave me half-truths and lied about several things. I think at the time, he knew he was SO wrong he couldn't bring himself to tell me the truth to his part of it. Like, he told me he started talking to her again through work related things then in a conversation she said "I miss you" and it lead to getting back together. That never happened. In fact, he found out she was seeing an ex-BF and he called her livid about it.

Then he didn't tell me about a secret phone and the fact that he had a key to her house. Two things I found out through her. And he didn't tell me about taking a day off to be with her...and it turned out it was his BIRTHDAY. And when I *did* find out about the day off, he lied about what day it was, because he knew I would be SO upset it was his b-day. I took that day off of work, cleaned the whole house, made his favorite dinner, made a cake with the kids, wrapped presents with them, etc....all while he was ordering take out, renting movies, and screwing his whore. ggggrrrr....

It was only when I had an inkling it was his birthday, and I demanded I see his punch cards...did he come clean. And actually he didn't even come clean then, because he tried to change his punch card date. !! I freaked. Told him I promised him I would leave him if he lied again, and I gave him *multiple* times to come clean. And like a coward, he didn't. Again. I really was done. And he knew it. I 180'd (I didn't know at the time that's what I did, but I knew I couldn't deal with him anymore, and needed to clear my own head). He was SCARED.

We had a really, really difficult MC session the next day. She hit on a lot of things that gave him and I "ah ha" moments. I realized he obviously wasn't a strong man, and had to work on the fact that he had to be stronger. Give him a learning curse, as it may be. He, in turn, realized that lying has been a coping mechanism from FOO reasons and it doesn't work anymore like it did when he was a child. It makes things worse, and in the meantime, hurts me even more. Might as well come clean and deal with those consequences than have a wife that is always going to wonder if what's going out of your mouth is a lie or not.

ReunitePangea posted 11/21/2013 07:44 AM

Wondertwin - sorry you are having to deal with this new information.

I think sisoon is spot on. It takes time to tell the story and just because you now have new information it doesnt really mean it is TT. The new information can still hurt because you have to now process it though.

I am not sure if I understood your last post but if he is breaking NC - that is a BIG issue. For me that would be worse than TT in that a line was drawn in the sand going forward and it was just crossed.

[This message edited by ReunitePangea at 7:47 AM, November 21st (Thursday)]

TheAmazingWondertwin posted 11/21/2013 11:44 AM

R is a process. It's long and painful. But you can be happy again. I think the two of you are on the right path to a very successful R.

thank you for this. :)

ETA: Maybe I missed it,but has he sent another NC email to OW? Has he changed his number yet?

They didn't communicate through emails but yes, he sent two "do not attempt to contact me" texts- which she refers to each time she texts "I know you said not to contact you" or "I promise this is the last time I try...but..." or "Its obvious you are not going to respond soo...."
We didn't change his number- we are on a family plan that expires in a few months, but we DID finally figure out how to block her number. He hands me his phone at the end of the day and there are no locks or passwords. Even lets me carry it when we are together and read all of his texts first and listen to his voicemails before he does, etc.

naiveone- I so understand your reply as well. He KNEW he was lying about the NC being broken but was too scared too tell the truth and each time I asked and he lied, it just got worse and worse. The best thing I ever did was check the phone records and just hand them over. No words. Just...busted.

Pangea- first off...LOVE your username. LOVE IT.
Okay- to business...

I am not sure if I understood your last post but if he is breaking NC - that is a BIG issue. For me that would be worse than TT in that a line was drawn in the sand going forward and it was just crossed.

to sum it up- last contact was on 8/24. Our NC agreement was made on 7/29.
We have been doing SO WELL in R- and then...I wanted to help with his timeline and I thought having the date that they first started texting would help jump start it for him. That was when I saw the extra almost two months AND the multitude of phone calls in August. She would text and text and text and he would call her back and talk for 30-40 minutes. He walked through and shared the content of each conversation as best he could, and I am satisfied. I am also pretty satisfied that there has been no other contact since August 24th- this I know from phone records, having contriol of his phone, be honest, just a change in him. I noticed he started changing in early september. Not that he wasn't always comforting and remorseful, but for awhile it just felt...false. come to find out, it was.
There is a lengthy story about how she is one of those lure you in with sugar, get angry with you, then call back all sugary again to apologize- makes me sick to think about.

Anyway-finding out about NC was my dealbreaker. That was what I told myself. So now we are in the process of working through what that meant and whether it really was. He knows now. I told him- 100 %honesty or get the hell out of my way.
That second "D day" was harder than the first and I barely escaped with my sanity- I was seriously terrified because he let me down....AGAIN.
Now we are just trying to work through it and see what happens.
so far- everything he has done has been exactly what I needed to see- even if I didn't realize it.

bobf posted 11/21/2013 11:57 AM

I am new to these forums. I had no idea what trickle truth (TT) was until I read through this thread.

I am so sorry wondertwin that you have to go through this. I truly hope your WH holds up his end of the marriage from now on and you live happily ever after.

My wife did the TT thing with me (recently posted elsewhere) and it really hurt. I just wish I had been flooded with the truth and either burned up in the conflagration or survived and had it over with.

TheAmazingWondertwin posted 11/21/2013 15:10 PM

Bobf- funny thing is- I read your other post right before reading your reply. Welcome to the greatest club you never wanted to join.
I know you are in a really bad place right now- but I encourage you to stay and read all that you can. Many many wonderful people live here and will share all of their stories and words of encouragement- as you can see above.
This Is a horrible roller coaste ride and this site has helped keep me somewhat sane and on track. Thank you for your kind words - it means a lot to know you will reach out to help others even though you are struggling. Stay strong and reach out when you need some support.
I wish you nothing but peace.

ReunitePangea posted 11/22/2013 08:04 AM

Pangea- first off...LOVE your username. LOVE IT.

Thanks!! I'm a geologist who wanted R.

I had a similar first 6 weeks after DDay or not really NC. Before I knew of this website I said all contact was to stop immediately on Dday but didnt formalize it to OM. OM was contacting and my WW was trying to avoid but didn't do a great job of that. As soon as I got my evidence that she was still in contact, I put my foot down big time. I found this website by then so that helped as well.

Formal NC was sent after finding out. I also put a condition down - my WW has exactly 1 hour to tell me if he contacts her in any way. I told her I do not care if I am in a meeting and she can not get a hold of me on the phone, she has to get in her car and go to my work within an hour and still tell me. If I am asleep, she has to wake me up. I didn't want to leave any time for thinking if this message is important or not to tell me. Any contact, just 1 hour to tell me about it.

DWBH posted 11/22/2013 12:58 PM

Like you say, only you can decide your course of action. I have dealt with a horrible amount of TT... 222 days, in fact, before she decided to start being 100% truthful. And even then, it still took several weeks to get all the relevant facts out. What I learned really was like a 2nd DDay...

Like Sissoon said, what is relevant means something different to each of you.

It's so frustrating, and discouraging, and sets you back every single time something new is revealed, but unfortunately it's just par for this course.

Take as much time as you need to hear all of it. I know personally I couldn't handle too much at once. In fact, early on, I felt convinced I didn't want to know the whole truth... whether that was out of fear, or what, I really don't know.

[This message edited by DWBH at 1:00 PM, November 22nd (Friday)]

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