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TheAgonyOfIt posted 11/21/2013 09:31 AM

Hi. So i'm thinking my WS is definitely a narcissist, not necessarily full blown NPD but on the spectrum, as they say. He REALLY fits the checklist. On the other hand, I have to wonder, since i understand a bit about psychology and defense mechanisms, that his lying to me might be IN PART because he's actually afraid of my reaction AND afraid of dealing with his shame and guilt about the agony his actions caused me.

Just wondering if anyone out there hit a brick wall with someone who seemed sooooo narcissistic only to finally break through that wall and find the hurt, scared, vulnerable person that is there (and inside all of us to some degree!)

Thanks
No longer in agony, but seriously aggravated and confused.

heartbroken2012 posted 11/21/2013 10:13 AM

I recently posted on this...I found a website that tells about narcissists and my WH fits it like a glove, but a lot of the responses were that a lot of WS exhibit narcissistic qualities when they arent actually a narcissist.

I am still on the fense about mine.

painfulpast posted 11/21/2013 11:10 AM

The checklist for a narc and the checklist for a cheater are basically the same list. If your WH was fine until this A started, then the odds are very strong that he's a cheating asshole and nothing more.

It's a very serious diagnosis. It also isn't an excuse for cheating, so if he is or isn't has no relevance to his cheating. A somatic N is more sexual, but not all narcs cheat, so this isn't the 'oh, now I know why he did it!' thing.

It is a very scary diagnosis basically saying your entire life with this person has been a lie designed by him to make you do things to feed his disease. Do you actually believe that?

ladya posted 11/21/2013 13:30 PM

My FWH was 100% narcissistic. The funny thing was that I had purchased book on how to live with a narcissist before I knew anything about his LTA.

We hit a brick wall for awhile and it was off and on and can still be that way. But, he broke through and became very, very vulnerable. I remember him literally crying so hard he couldn't talk and I knew he was starting to accept responsibility.

In his mind when he lies to you he is "protecting" you. It isn't his fault he had an affair, it is everyones but his.

There is hope. Just stick with it. If you are reconciling, then keep reminding him that you love him and want to work it out but only if he is transparent. It will take awhile for him to quit focusing on himself (as narcissists do) and focus on the pain he has caused you.

painfulpast posted 11/21/2013 13:59 PM

In his mind when he lies to you he is "protecting" you.

No offense, but a person with NPD would never think this, or care to protect another. He also wouldn't cry as reality set in, and telling him over and over that you love him is only begging to be crushed by such a person.

I'm certain, Ladya, that your H has some very serious issues, but these are just not the actions of a person with NPD.

NPD people are very cold underneath their charming exterior. Their entire world revolves around hiding the real 'them' and instead using others to validate themselves. They are not 'conceited' as is often mistakenly thought. They are in fact extremely insecure under all of the bluff they display. They read people, extremely well, and generally when a person meets a NPD for the first time, they think the NPD is just the nicest, most charming person ever!! (oh, if they only knew). This is because the NPD has no 'real self' and only mirrors others to behave in ways to get the validation from others that they need.

Once an NPD views a person as 'weak' as would be the case for someone that has been cheated on and instead of being angry simply reminds the narc how much they love them, they discard them. It's termed 'devalue and discard'. It is what sends most over the edge with a NPD. They try desperately to get back to that honeymoon stage, and in doing so the NPD views them as lesser, and begins to be cruel and uncaring. The reality is they were always uncaring, they just hid it.

You cannot reason with NPD. You cannot 'love' them to you. You cannot win them over, and you cannot get 'on the inside' with them. They simply are not wired like the rest of society. However, unlike a true Sociopath (or antisocial), the NPD is not born this way. This is a situation created during the very early years of a person's life. It is believed that by the time a person is 4 or 5, NPD has taken hold, if it is going to.

There are a couple of different causes for this, but the end result is the same. There is no empathy, no concern, no genuine care underneath the facade of an NPD person. There is only the desire for validation and admiration (supply), and a brutal cruel streak if they suspect they are going to get anything less.

If you find yourself with an NPD, the only real option is to end the relationship. There is no real relationship with an NPD, so the only thing being left is the fantasy that this 'person' genuinely cares for you, or anyone.

Again, all cheaters display NPD traits. It comes with the territory. But a true narcissist? It's very unlikely.

TheAgonyOfIt posted 11/22/2013 02:20 AM

Well first thank you everyone who has written.

My WS 6 months out from Dday has given lip service but nearly zero actions to show remorse , or more important, real compassion for the pain I've been in. The most he has said is that hes sorry, but there is barely any feeling behind his words. After I discoveed Affair, he ended affair (he had wanted out anyway) and we entered onto a "crazy time" of super passionate sex and hopes of getting relationship repaired. I was in crazy pain but was willing to work toward forgivenness and mutual growth.

We started marriage counseling a couple of months ago but after slowly scaling it back, and as we started to get closer to discussing vulnerable feelings, he abruptly stated that he wanted our relationship to end. So why reconnect with me, or was it reconquer? And he seems not to have the slightest comprehendsion that this second abandonment feels like another horrid, horrid betrayal.

I honestly dont need to label him NPD or narcissisticc, I am just trying to understand what I feel as insidious cruel abuse . And yes, I feel thoroughly discarded. I am coping reasonably well but I am scared of my rage at the abuse now that I am facing another round of having been used, and now thrown away

He says he cant make me happy and he just wants to me to be happy, but if that's true, didn't he 'know" that before we got back together. Why lead me down reconciling road only to throw me off the highway.

So many feelings. So confused and bewildered.

Thank you for reading.
Back in agony

OldCow18 posted 11/22/2013 08:22 AM

In his mind when he lies to you he is "protecting" you.

No, this is what they say, but they are not protecting US, they are protecting THEMSELVES from our reaction to what they did. The lies serve THEM, not us.

tryingmybest2011 posted 11/22/2013 08:33 AM

Yes. In the beginning, I did a lot of research, and diagnosed my WH with NPD, because so many of the traits fit like a glove. I needed some label to explain what was wrong with him.

He does not have this disorder. We all have narcissistic traits, histrionic traits, and all the other traits you can think of, to some degree. What my WH is, like you suggest, is very scared and vulnerable, and the narcissistic traits are a defence mechanism.

Like another poster said, a true narcissist (NPD) does not and will never care about protecting you. You are merely a prop in his show, as is everyone else in his life.