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A smart person will drive themselves crazy...

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cl131716 posted 11/21/2013 12:20 PM

That's what my CoDA leader told me at last meeting because I tend to obsess about the true meaning of things.

On one hand I want to believe WS when he tells me what I know is all there is and he never had a real EA or PA, the inappropriate messages were only an ego-stroke. Maybe...

But then some things don't make sense...why did she react the way she did to NC? Why did she continually try to contact him afterwards? Why did she tell him months before dday that she missed him and was excited about working with him that Friday? Did it simply mean more to her than him? How could he not be aware of this and string her along? Why did she still believe they were "friends" if he said no contact and hasn't contacted her at all? Was there more to the relationship?
Why does he constantly accuse me of being unfaithful? If its projection then why does it continue and why so much guilt over a message that he says meant nothing? If its insecurity then how could he do the very thing he was so afraid of? So much doesn't make sense! These questions play in my head over and over. He doesn't have the answers either!

I wish I could hand it over to a professional and say "analyze this for me so I know what to make of it all." Because I just don't!

Kelany posted 11/21/2013 12:46 PM

Its very difficult to makes sense out of something that there was no sense to.

I kept searching for a "good enough" why. Then realized, there will never be one good enough.

Lovedyoumore posted 11/21/2013 12:53 PM

We can only speak of our own experiences. It does not sound right to me either. I learned the hard way that EA's are very powerful and I believe that if left alone to grow, they will eventually turn into a PA. Could your H just be playing her? Maybe, but if your gut tells you differently, go with your gut. After I "discovered" the friendship, really a very advanced EA, they took it underground. I very stupidly believed my H and gave him my trust that he stopped what he said was harmless flirting.

Look deeper. Accusing the BS of infidelity is in the cheater's 101 handbook.

crazyblindsided posted 11/21/2013 12:53 PM

(((cl131716))) yes I too did this obsessive dance. I did end up finding out months and months later that my WH's A did involve feelings.

It sounds like you are early out from your Dday and just starting to process what has happened. It takes time and some tough emotions to get through to the other side. Take your time and love yourself the most.

I liked Samantha's response too. No matter what the "why" is, it will never be good enough.

StillLivin posted 11/21/2013 12:59 PM

Step back for just a minute.
Let's play devil's advocate. Say it really wasn't an EA or PA. Who cares. It bothers you right.
Say you left your shoes in the foyer for him to trip over everyday. Once he told you it bothered him, the respectful way to handle it is to stop. Correct.
My STBXH used to hate seeing my long black hair on the shower wall. For whatever reason, it freaked him out. So, it only takes 3 seconds for me to wipe the shower wall before exiting the shower.
So if it were really a minor thing to him, he wouldn't have a problem with respecting how you feel and going NC. He is making his "friends" more important than you and your happiness.
Therefore, it's not minor, he is gaslighting you.

cl131716 posted 11/21/2013 13:29 PM

StillLivin- Lightbulb moment! That was also my question to him, why if it meant nothing was it so hard to brush her off and consider MY feelings. I think I have my answer finally....perhaps because it wasn't nothing as they claimed. They just couldn't stop talking to each other.

So I guess it doesn't really matter if he ever confesses to more?

And I know there will never really be a good enough answer. :/

cl131716 posted 11/21/2013 13:32 PM

Not sure that last post came out right but I understand what you were saying...if its just something minor then it wouldn't be difficult to listen to my request of NC, correct?

selkiescot posted 11/21/2013 13:39 PM

A smart person also litens to their gut. Although this shit is batshit crazy making, the gut is never ever wrong.

StillLivin posted 11/21/2013 13:41 PM

Exactly. Children do this a lot. Once you start looking outside of what is coming out of his mouth you will get more clarity.
He suckers you in with specifics when it's really the generalities that count.
Example. My DSS reached up and grabbed the Captain crunch from the pantry. I told him, "I don't want you eating that before dinner. It will ruin your appetite and dinner will be done in about 10 minutes." I stepped away to the laundry room. I came back and he was eating a big giant gourmet caramel chocolate apple. He argued that I told he he couldn't have the Captain Crunch not the apple. He knows the point and tried to divert from the point, no eating, it will ruin your appetite.
Your WH is doing the same thing. He focuses on one very small aspect of something and justifies it, but it doesn't matter if she is "just a friend". His relationship with her disrespects you because it takes his time, affection, devotion, and concern off of you and he is giving it to her. Doesn't matter whether he has or hasn't screwed her YET. It's headed that way, and you don't like it.
It needs to stop or there will be some very unpleasant consequences. The thing is, you have to follow through with those consequences.

[This message edited by StillLivin at 1:42 PM, November 21st (Thursday)]

StillLivin posted 11/21/2013 13:51 PM

I just thought of another example. Hope this gives even more clarity.
We had a guest bathroom. I always made sure that there was shampoo, conditioner, body soap, etc.
I had given strict orders to both DSSs not to ever take the stuff out of the guest bathroom.
Was cleaning it when I noticed it was empty of toiletries. I asked the youngest DS what had happened to everything. He told me oldest DSS had taken it months ago.
So, instead of getting angry I asked the oldest DSS. "DSS do you know what happened to the shampoo in the guest bathroom?"
He responded, "Depends, which shampoo are you talking about." He wanted me to name Bed Head, Suave, etc brand name.
We went through this questioning with all of the toiletries and his response was always similar gaslighting.
Your husband is trying to make you feel like you are crazy. He can't possibly be wrong if he didn't go to a hotel to screw her. He can't possibly be wrong even though he snuck out because he met her in an open place. Ever consider that he is setting up his alibis too conveniently in advance.
If he hasn't already had sex with her, he is setting up his it's-not-my-fault-it-just-happened excuse right now.

cl131716 posted 11/21/2013 14:22 PM

As far as I know, it has now stopped. I'll try to give you a timeline.

End of April of the year- OW begins working at WS place of employment. He is her trainer.

May-she continues to work on their lot until boss feels she ready to tackle the other lot alone. They are rotated on lots but work together at the main one on Fridays and I think on other day. They exchange emails on days they don't work together. It was during this time she wrote miss you, love ya, you are so good to me, I give good foot massages too, and was excited about working together one day.

June-she begins working on other lot full time. They continue to exchange emails daily and talk some on Facebook. This is when I started monitoring him through email because I noticed he deleted messages to another coworker and a former one.

July 14-he tells her she looks hot. I've had enough and confront him. He says its nothing and she's old enough to be his mom but he will stop. Also admits I haven't been giving him enough attention so I step it up.

July 22-they joke about wanting a piece and he says he tastes like caramel. A few messages are missing and he can't remember so it doesn't make sense.

July 23-they talk about her having no eggs for his swimmers, he likes it slow and easy so she can get hers, she likes it hard, she's been sweet on him, and they are on the same page. I confront him. He lies and then minimizes it as harmless flirting.

July 24-25- he ignores her and plays it off as being to busy to talk

July26-first NC letter

End of July-august 16th- broken NC repeatedly mostly talking about my pregnancy and her DD

Aug 16-I have our DS, she asks for pics, he sends them

Couple of weeks later-another NC letter

Middle of sept-I start cleaning the office at his job, she shows up and unplugs his computer as a prank, another NC is written to which she says I need to lighten up. She continues to send good morning emails but he doesn't reply. He unfriended her on Facebook.

Oct 16th-nov 1- we are separated

Oct 31st-she writes email asking why he can't reply back to her emails and why he unfriended her. He tells her we are separated. They speak on the phone and then she writes an email "glad you are okay and we can be friends".

Nov 1st-I come home.

Nov 4th-she writes email asking how his weekend was. He writes back great wife came back and I only need her. Writes last nc as do I. She freaks out sending a string of nasty emails calling him an ass, being shitty, sudden change in his attitude, we can both go f ourselves, and she doesn't need his help with work anymore either.

No more emails since.

No12turn2 posted 11/21/2013 14:26 PM

My IC tells me I'm very cerebral which DOES cause the missing details/answers to drive me insane. I was already intuitive by nature and picked a career in the military that taught me how to hone my analytical skills. I wish I could change the way my brain works sometimes. It makes this so hard to deal with.

Ostrich80 posted 11/21/2013 14:32 PM

Those emails before he saying those were just friendly exchanges? I'm sorry but I don't believe that for a second. My opinion, they were having EA if not PA, I think it took a few NC to finally take and now that he sounds serious, she's pissed beause he wasn't serious the other times. Sometimes NC means lay low until my bs is comfortable again, then proceed as usual. I think he means it this time but there shouldn't have to have been more than one unless he was not abiding too

[This message edited by Ostrich80 at 2:35 PM, November 21st (Thursday)]

cl131716 posted 11/21/2013 14:35 PM

Forgot to mention...the reason we separated was because he was accusing me of being unfaithful. The weekend before the 16th it was constant accusations. When I came home from work that Sunday I got questioned like crazy and the next two days he just showed up to "catch" me.

cl131716 posted 11/21/2013 14:37 PM

Ostrich- yes! He originally said they were just joking around. Then he said he knew it was wrong and inappropriate but there were no real intentions. He was just bored and it stroked his ego. That has been his last explanation.

Ostrich80 posted 11/21/2013 14:38 PM

I tend to overthink is what I've been told but I don't consider it over thinking if it makes sense but when stories and actions don't jive, I go into overdrive. I don't think its a bad thing but sometimes I wish I could stop cuz its exhausting.
Him accusing you is just utter bullshit

Ostrich80 posted 11/21/2013 14:41 PM

I may be hyper sensitive because my ws said the same damn thing. Made me feel like I had was over reacting as usual. Yea he's been underground with the bitch since DD 4 yrs ago. I justthink what the emails said, did not sound like joking around, do you?

[This message edited by Ostrich80 at 2:42 PM, November 21st (Thursday)]

cl131716 posted 11/21/2013 14:49 PM

Wow ostrich! Did he act remorseful during the time? Did he go to counseling? I'm the same way you are! It is very exhausting and I do wish I could turn it off at times!

Ostrich80 posted 11/21/2013 16:16 PM

Oh yes he "acted". Even swore on our kids life she meant nothing. He called it inappropriate texting, like oops I may have crossed the line. One of the conditions of him not being kicked out was mc. Within 6 wks of DD, he was back to being distant and refusing mc cuz we didnt need it. I've called him out a few times, then he adamantly denies contact and behaves for awhile. If she means nothing, why can't he cut her loose? Because she means something, right? He's really good at not leaving an trails, no cards, letters, nada so he can quickly say its all in my head.

cl131716 posted 11/21/2013 16:38 PM! My WS swears on our kids too. he even asks me to do it when he asks if he is the only one or if I'm talking to anyone. He's agreed to MC but we haven't started yet due to funds. He's in IC though. He's also suddenly very into God and has been going to church. I sometimes get feelings and call him on them. He will just casually deny or a could of times he's broken down and cried. I can't even gauge his reactions. I only have proof of one lie and really I jumped too quick with the evidence to really see his response. He did minimize it at first! He literally laughed about it. Ugh! It wasn't until I kept prodding and prodding that he really started showing some remorse. Of course now he blames it on abandonment issues, my suggestion. *sigh*

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