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I was just wondering how common it is for the WW’s to come out of their fog of the A down the road, say after the divorce, and try to R. Not that I would take my WW back at that point but everyone keeps telling me that she will regret her decision and I was just wondering how true that is. Is it common that they come back down the road knowing the error of their ways. Maybe some of the more senior members of this site could weigh-in on that.

I really hate hearing that from people because there is no sign of it in my case. She is perfectly content with her decision and wants the D. She is very lost in the fog.

but everyone keeps telling me that she will regret her decision

I was told this repeatedly by people after my xgf dumped me. It was wishful thinking on their part. I paid attention to her actions and those actions told me she was never going to regret it and even if she did she wasn't going to act on that regret.

Honestly, I just think this is something people say to those in our situations. They think they are making us feel better. Maybe she will regret it, maybe she won't, but it doesn't matter anymore.

Doesn't matter if she regrets it or not. Don't let other people put futile thoughts in your head.

I think pretty frequently they come back when their latest target (OW/OM) dumps them, and they don't have anyone else lined up, therefore trying out the BS as a backup plan.

38,

I mull over this thought every now and then, but much less so than months ago. When I find myself thinking about it, I have to actively remind myself of what to me is the crucial fact: Even if she became the person I wanted her to be, even if she came to me on her knees... Even if all of it came to pass: She is still the person who did this to me. And yours is the person who did this to you. Let's say she came back, full of clarity and remorse, could you live with yourself if you took her back? After the honeymoon was over and real life set back in, could you live with her? Would you want a life of daily wondering? Where is she going? Is she really going there? Whom is she texting? Why is she late? And on and on... Just think about it. I am not preaching or am holier than thou at all--I still pine for my wife and entertain fantasies of the sort you do. But it is futile. It is self-inflicted torture. Don't do it to yourself.

Strength in these terrible times, 38... I know how hard it is.

PS: With regard to the whole "fog controversy," I am on the side that calls "BS." I went with it at the beginning of my saga because it suggested that they are just confused; the "fog" will lift. What comes in must go out. I long ago abandoned this belief. I believe that cheaters are stunningly selfish narcissists obvlivious to and uncaring of the casualties they leave in their wake of boundless entitlement. And I do not believe they will change. By the time they are adults, they are hardwired. What they do defines them.

I'm sorry.

Abbondad,

You make very good points. Everything you said is true and it is probably harder for me to understand all of this at the point I'm at now.

I'm not sure how I would handle it if she came back now or in the future wanting to R. The biggest issue is the kids. My kids are 10 and 6 and they would influence my decision greatly.

I'm sure in time this won't be a worry for me because I'll be more settled in my new life.

I think that once the deed (A-betrayal) is done there is permanent damage to the relationship whether or not the the betrayer becomes remorseful..

End of story.....

How people deal with this damage varies and is a personal decision...

If she comes back wanting R, this may or may not be something you want to deal with and it doesn't mean she is emerging from a fog...She is just trying to see what options she has left after having been so colossally selfish and stupid...

If you aren't already divorced, make getting a post nup (to protect you) a condition of R....or follow through with the divorce so you have separation/custody living arrangements legally mapped out before you reconsider a romantic relationship with her again...and by all means don't ever let her move back in with you to the point of giving up her own apt/house...KWIM?

My point is that once you are settled and adjusted, don't give that up in favor of R without protecting yourself..
If you are safely divorced from this person don't get into relationship/living arrangement/marriage with her again or a new person without protecting yourself...

If your WS wanted to come back to you and was genuinely remorseful she would be cooperative and have no problem with you wanting to protect yourself legally..Take advantage of that...

I may sound like a cynical old goat, but I think that marriage as an institution sucks when the partners aren't in it to be a team...If one prioritizes his/her spouse's and family's well being up there with his/her own it will show in actions....

[This message edited by doggiediva at 11:15 AM, November 22nd (Friday)]

I agree with everyone here who says it doesn't matter anymore. The further you get away from this trauma, the more you will realize that R, after all of this mess and pain, is likely a major impossibility.

I wanted to comment on the idea that any notion of R would be for the children. I used to think that too. My kids were only 7 and 3 when the shit hit the fan so I get where your thoughts are coming from.

However, after that fantasy of R faded for me where he would run to me crying and begging for another chance, I thought that it would more likely be a detriment to my kids if we got back together. I don't want my kids ever thinking that it's ok to be treated like a punching bag and to just stand there and take it. My kids frequently lament their fathers decision to leave and talk to me about it a lot. I've never come out to confirm the A, but he's still with OW so their little minds have pretty much put it together. Just recently, my daughter said something about how she knows why he left and that she thinks it was because he wanted to be with OW. Again, I neither confirmed nor denied, but when she asked if we were ever getting ack together, I told her no. I told her that daddy hurt my feelings very much when he decided to leave and that I don't want to be with someone who could do that to me. I told her that she should also never be with anyone who would hurt her like that.

I don't ever want them thinking that this is okay and that consequences mean nothing as long as you say sorry enough times.

That's just my take on it. I'm a natural born pleaser and look where it's gotten me. I don't want to raise them to be complete pleasers like me. I want them to know their worth and to set those boundaries so that toxic people won't see them as an easy target.

38, ADad made some great points and are the things that I think about as well. My situation is very similar to yours, with the exception of children.

When i feel like WW is trying to suck me back in, I pull out my journal and re-read what I wrote about the timeline of events, the blatant lies and decpetion. This re-energizes my resolve, because when i think about the D and the eventual freedom from her that it will bring my my soul feels peaceful. This is how I know I'm doing the right thing.

Spending years trying to heal and re-build the trust that was completely shattered, trampled upon, and thrown in the garbage is no way to live. Life is already too short to begin with IMHO.

In regards to R'ing because there are kids involved … when I actually spent some time thinking about the "what ifs", specifically "what if stbx wanted to R after the divorce?", I CANNOT risk the children having to go through all this again. They have been through so much and we have come so far that I can't and won't put them through it again. Why would I want to be with someone who abandoned his own children?

And like others have said, in time you won't give a fuck about her fog or her life because you will have healed and rebuilt your life and all your thoughts and energy will be focused on that.

I also wonder about the "fog". My own personal experience has been that throughout the years (multiple EAs, PAs, and Ddays) WH's fog times were immediately following discovery - he went thru various stages of denial, gaslighting, blaming me, then would be VERY angry w/me. He seemed to come out of these "fogs" only when a. I intervened and put an end to the A or b. when I would kick him out and he was in fear of losing his family. Needless to say we had multiple falseRs because he has admitted to never really stopping any of his behavior. He just got better at hiding it.

In my situation I tend to agree w/what Abbondad said - I think WH is such a completely self-absorbed prick that feels he is entitled that he really doesn't care about the me or his kids for that matter. He came crawling back in the past because he is a guy that very much cares what others think/say about him so didn't want to look like the pukebag that abandoned his wife and 4 kids.

I struggle w/this stupid fantasy that he would one day see the "error of his ways" but have to live in the reality that it doesn't matter anyway. I have played this twisted game of his for 18+ years and would never be able to trust him nor could I honestly probably ever forgive him for the repeated traumas/shatterings.

I also agree w/Suckstobeme - it's about damn time I teach my kids that you don't have to keep taking someone's shit. I hope it's not too late.

I don't believe in the expression: "in the fog."

They are not in a fog. They made a conscious decision. They are cheaters. Saying they are in some fog lets them off the hook for being responsible for their actions. And it leads newly separated people to believe that their wayward spouses will suddenly pop out of a fog - and regret everything they've done.

This doesn't happen very often in real life. And even when it does, all too often the damage is already done, and the relationship is unsalvageable. Or a brief reconciliation occurs, followed by more cheating.

I think that instead of asking this sort of question, you would be better served putting all your energy on detaching. Then you won't care about someone else who you can't control and who is not worthy.

All your energy should be on yourself right now. Focus it there, and good things will come to you.

I think that as long as XWH has someone by his side so that he's not by his poor, little lonesome, he won't come sniffing around. That's the ONLY reason he'd try to come crawling back to me-- if he and the Owife tanked, and he didn't have anyone else.

If that day ever comes, I will offer him a used Ziploc to dry his eyes on and then tell him to go give Ashley Madison another try!

Judging by your tagline it seems like this is all very recent. Its pretty common in the early days for people to encourage you both to work on it, give it another shot.

I remember posting here a few weeks after DD something like: "why the fuck is everyone suggesting I attempt R with this fucker??".

It made me really mad - didn't they think I deserved better.

But it wasn't that - I now realise THEIR worldview was also being changed by what was happening to me. They thought we were a great couple, they didn't know what was going on behind closed doors.

By the time Final S came around 5m later everyone encouraged me to walk the fuck away from that hot mess. Not one person suggested I stay with him. Some do still say "he'll regret this so bad one day and he'll be trying to kick down your door when he wakes the fuck up". My response is always ""Geez. Yuck. I hope not".

She is very lost in the fog.

Gently, no she's not. She is choosing to be there. She is choosing every.single.day.

"The Fog" is something we all experience - BS/WS alike. It is that time where you can't see the forest for the trees. You're making decisions based in faulty data. The BS fog can be thicker than the WS fog, IMO.

I'd say you're in the fog, friend.

Now, its pretty common for them to have bouts of Hoovering (http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=480828) but this is more about manipulation and control. Lots see the light when their AP dumps them.

Real, true remorse is really really rare. It doesn't just mean they'll work hard to not cheat again - it usually means they've deconstructed and rebuilt their entire internal operating system. I used to read in the Wayward forum a lot in the early days and TBH they're all working harder on their healing than I ever have.

38 hello brother you are so not alone as you can tell . my stbxww had not one second of remorse it is a tough pill to swallow , but like so many great people already mentioned the fog is bs in my opinion. She was college educated, very street smart also , she had a degree in psycology, she ran our business, she was never in a fog! get that thought of her ever coming back out of your head. It will only hinder your healing. I still have nightmares about her trying to reconcile but that is all in my mind only. She is gone , long gone and I could never even look at myself or children again if I thought of letting her back into my life. you say you would entertain the idea for the kids but you would only hurt them more to see that. I am sorry you are here brother but do not let people who aren't in your shoes manipulate your mind. just my thoughts. stay strong ! all the best

Truth. It doesn't matter whether she regrets it or not. Move on, brother.

I am almost three years out since I was blindsided by Dday. He was my best friend on January 9th, 2011, and a completely different person on January 10, 2011. It was insane and we went thru much insanity since - with little to no contact over the past year and a half.

About a month ago he started texting what a huge mistake he made, how I was the only person he could talk to, etc. I agreed to talk to him ONCE, but I was not willing to rearrange my schedule for it. He tried a couple of times, but I was busy, and he hasn't tried since. It simply doesn't matter to me anymore. Took three years to get there but I'm there now and it's a good thing. You will get there too.

Lets keep things in perspective here. Regret is not remorse. Sure they regret what they have done. But lets remember that's usually after they get smacked upside the head with the big bat of reality and consequence. I don't know about the rest of you. But for me these types of realizations are not conducive to a healthy relationship. More so, its the WS way of looking for a soft landing or plan B type of scenario. I have lots of regrets. I regret eating Taco Bell for lunch. But that does not give me the right to rip someone's heart out and walk all over their emotions. My personal opinion is that a WS really needs to live the life they have willingly chosen. At least for an extended amount of time. If remorse comes out of that period of time, that's fine. But its been my experience that it rarely happens. Yet on those rare occasions that it does happen a WS who seeks a return to the relationship must earn his/her back in. And who's to say that after being separated for awhile that the BS even wants them back ? IMHO infidelity is like going to a casino. A WS gets all enamored with the lights and sounds of the fantasy. Odds are when you gamble your gonna lose. They know that going in, but they pick up them dice and throw them anyway. And more often then not they crap out. Same thing with cheating. They know going into an A that there is possibility of losing their M. But they take that risk and lose it all. It always angers me that most WS all of a sudden realize that they love their BS after they are busted. Where the fuck was the love when they were banging someone else ? But to answer the original question. Yes I do think its fairly common. But not for the right reasons. Just my .02 cents !!!

This

I believe that cheaters are stunningly selfish narcissists obvlivious to and uncaring of the casualties they leave in their wake of boundless entitlement.

I thought the "fog" would lift but I agree that the BS (in my case) is much deeper in a fog.
I finally can look back and see that what my WS did was so cruel, intentional and he knew it would end our marriage. He cared only about himself and still is manipulating me and the kids to protect his own reputation.

He feels guilt but not remorse. Regret that he got caught in the way he did.

I too imagine him looking to R after he's been on his own for a while. (He's not even out of the house yet!) But I cannot imagine him doing the work of true R to change who he is and understand how he could be so selfish.
Once he's out, I know I'll be more at peace. Maybe one day I'll even be able to burn the emails, phone records, credit card statements and all the other hurt.

People also have turned the corner to support us divorcing. He's still asking about my friends and if he should reach out to them? Uh no - idiot. They think you're a fuckhead. I'm done protecting him and his "image".