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emotionalman posted 11/26/2013 06:55 AM

Any I overreacting? This is what she wrote.

"Hey, I'm sorry for the abrupt text message a few days ago. I decided to see the marriage counselor since i recently quit my job and I can't really afford not to. I told BS about you and he didn't react well. He's the one who sent the text message and I'm sorry that this had to happen during a time you were also struggling. I just figured I owed you an explanation for why things happened the way they did. We had fun and I wish you the best.

P.S. He blocked you on my phone so we can't text anymore. I'm sorry."

I'm going crazy. I don't know what to do. She took no responsibility for anything in front of him. She even said they had FUN and wished him the best.

I wrote the text that she sent to end it. She is the one who actually sent it. I see that was wrong now.
I think she needs to write a full NC letter/e-mail to him and accept complete responsibility.

I don't know what to do. I almost just want to kick her out right now. We were trying to be open and honest. Apparently she thought it was more important for her to leave things well with him than how hurtful i'd be if I found lies again.

Somebody please help me. I feel like dying.

P.s. Everyone, some things I've learned that she used to hide it:

Skype chat history can set to never save. You can find deleted messages that were saved at some point, but not if they are never saved in the first place.

IMessage (texts between apple products on WiFi) are impossible to track. If the texts you are looking for are deleted from the phone I believe you only have a couple days to use third party software to retrieve the messages from the phones backup internal software.
If the person regularly backsup their phone records to the iCloud or iTunes, there are ways to get information from there as well.

There are SO many programs and apps now that people can use to stay in touch. I'm sorry to say but this may be the most difficult time in history to begin to trust a WS again. Too many ways to stay in contact, lie, and conceal.

bobf posted 11/26/2013 07:15 AM

You need to do the full 180 it seems.

She does understand NC means "No contact at all" right?

If the EAP contacts my wife in any way she is she will not answer and show me what he sent. My wife is truly remorseful and I know she will not violate NC.

I would be flipping out if my wife contacted her EAP. I would probably tell her to pack her bags and leave until she can remain NC.

Every person's circumstance is different. You have to do what feels right but allowing contact will defeat any attempts at R.

She does not owe him ANYTHING. She owes you EVERYTHING. Sorry for the shouting, I'm a little upset about my own issues (horrible trigger this morning).

solus sto posted 11/26/2013 07:16 AM

I think she needs to write a full NC letter/e-mail to him and accept complete responsibility.
I agree. But really, until she REALLY "accepts responsibility," an NC letter is utterly meaningless.

Look, she is in contact with the guy. She currently cares more about saving face with him--and perhaps continuing their relationship--than she cares about your marriage.

You can't make her accept responsibility.

You can't make her do anything.

Focus on yourself, and your healing. And watch. Watch to see what your wife's actions tell you. Do they tell you she's committed to R? Over time, you will see where you're headed, in your marriage.

We were trying to be open and honest.
No. You were. She's not there yet. Will she be? I hope so. Watch the actions, over time. (You get to decide how much time.)

[This message edited by solus sto at 7:17 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]

brokensmile322 posted 11/26/2013 07:29 AM


Her whole message is insulting. How dare she?!

I decided to see the marriage counselor since i recently quit my job and I can't really afford not to.

^^This. THis, to me, is the most damning thing you have. She's telling him that she decided to go to MC because, well, she has no other choices.

If you have the courage, now would be the time to kick her to the curb, BUT only if you are willing to lose your M. If you aren't willing to or aren't strong enough yet to kick her out and back it up, don't do it.

I would suggest doing the 180. Kick her out of the bedroom if you must. Work on you. Turn inward. Do not continue with MC until she is on board. Instead get yourself into IC. Work on you. I would cut her off emotionally at the very least. Tell her to go be with him then…

I know it is a scary time. But dig deep and find your strength, believe in your value and stand firm.

[This message edited by brokensmile322 at 7:32 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]

heforgotme posted 11/26/2013 07:47 AM

Any I overreacting?

Absolutely not. Everything about this is horrible.

"Hey, I'm sorry for the abrupt text message a few days ago.

More concerned about his feelings than yours.

I decided to see the marriage counselor since i recently quit my job and I can't really afford not to.

Only staying with you bc she's broke.

I told BS about you and he didn't react well.

You are a big meanie. For some reason you object to someone else sleeping with your wife. How unreasonable of you not to "react well".

He's the one who sent the text message and I'm sorry that this had to happen during a time you were also struggling.

And you aren't "struggling"?!?!?!

I just figured I owed you an explanation for why things happened the way they did.

Oh, she "owed" him did she? Why? Did she take vows with him???

We had fun and I wish you the best.

Oh, this is just barfy. So glad she had "fun" and thought a little fun was worth her marriage and integrity. And apparently still thinks so.

P.S. He blocked you on my phone so we can't text anymore. I'm sorry."

She still wants contact, but big meanie you who doesn't react well is preventing it.

This whole thing is atrocious and the only "good" thing about it is that it tells you what she really thinks. She needs to come out of the fog before you guys will make any progress.

Time for the 180. She is not in your corner and you need to protect yourself. And sometimes it even knocks some sense into them. It can be hard to stick to, so whenever you feel yourself wavering, think of this delusional message.

Good luck.

Lalagirl posted 11/26/2013 08:27 AM

Wow. I am furious for you! And I'm so sorry that you had to see that, but now you know.

It's time for you to get furious too - as the other posters suggested and I agree - it's time to implement the 180 for your own sanity. She obviously has her head lodged in pretty deep.

Are you going to tell her what you found?

emotionalman posted 11/26/2013 08:47 AM

I got the OM to send it to me because she had already deleted it.

It's now sitting, archived in my e-mail forever in case we need to get a D.

I feel like I need to kick her out of the house.

I feel like if she moves in with her mom, her mom will convince her never to try and win me back (her mom thinks I'm controlling and terrible for her).

I feel like if she does go to live with her mom she has no reason to take that 20 minute train ride in to see him again.

I don't know what to do.

alifeforesaken posted 11/26/2013 08:49 AM

You are certainly not overreacting. That is so hurtful to see. I'm sorry your have to deal with that. That seems like a clear sign she cares about his feelings more. and clearly herself as well.

I have only slowly implemented some of the 180 for my sanity, as I am hoping for R. Something like this would make me go full 180.

emotionalman posted 11/26/2013 08:53 AM

Does it make sense to do the 180 when we are living separated? We have no kids, just joint bills that we pay.

Also, if we live apart, she would move in with her mom. Her mom has been telling her for months to leave me because she thought i was controlling and paranoid. And even after her daughter admitted to 2 affairs, her mother blamed me for pushing her into them.

If she moves in with her mother, her mother will have her ear EVERY DAY telling her never to come back. Never to try again.

alifeforesaken posted 11/26/2013 09:09 AM

I am by no means an expert, my story is extremely fresh. I can see that you want this to work and what I do know is, it cannot work if only you try.

Only you can decide how much you can put up with. I do not know your story, I can only deduct from your post that she does not seem remorseful or committed to R. The 180 is for you, so that you can recover and move on.

I know that either way its not easy. But there is one fact that no matter the route you go, that past life is gone. You can choose to suffer, you can choose to 180 and move on to a new and better you or you can reconcile and build a new life together. That last choice, has to involve her equally wanting the same. Are you in IC or MC? That may help you make a decision.

Brandon808 posted 11/26/2013 09:18 AM

Let's take a look at this message.

Hey, I'm sorry for the abrupt text message a few days ago.
She starts off by apologizing to OM. To him.
I decided to see the marriage counselor since i recently quit my job and I can't really afford not to.
I'm sorry but it sounds she's saying she can't financially live on her own so she has to go MC in order to stay in the M.
I told BS about you and he didn't react well.
She doesn't mention at all how hurt you were by the betrayal.
He's the one who sent the text message and I'm sorry that this had to happen during a time you were also struggling.
Again apologizing to him. Worried about his feelings. No mention at all of you, the M, the family. None
I just figured I owed you an explanation for why things happened the way they did.
Translation It wasn't my idea to end the A.
We had fun and I wish you the best.
Again no expression of remorse. Not even one of regret over the pain the A caused.
P.S. He blocked you on my phone so we can't text anymore. I'm sorry.
My BH is the bad guy who says we can't talk to each other. Don't blame me. I didn't want to stop talking to you.

The act of breaking NC is in itself a decision that is completely contradictory to R. The content of her message shows (imho) that your WW is unremorseful. Your pain, your healing aren't even on her radar. See a lawyer. Go stone cold 180. Detach and look after yourself.

So sorry for your pain.

refuz2bavictim posted 11/26/2013 09:20 AM

her mother will have her ear EVERY DAY telling her never to come back.

As long as she is having or continuing to seek out A's with other AP's or continuing to be dishonest with you, you don't really "have" her as a true partner.

It seems that no matter which way you slice it, (in her current mindset and yours) you have a third party involved, Either an AP or her Mother telling her to leave you. Do you always want to have some variable third party to battle with for her "ear"? This isn't healthy.

180 is for you. For you to build your own strength and start the healing process. It's not to keep her near you so you can "convince" her to be honest, to be loyal, or faithful.

180 is a way to let go, and stop trying to control the outcome. If she decides to get herself right, and heal and change...it will have to be her decision.

sorry you are struggling with such a painful discovery.

tushnurse posted 11/26/2013 09:22 AM

I was married to the King of broken NC in the early days of our R. He is no longer king, that title has been passed on to many other WS's since our early days. That being said, I can tell you that I kept giving him another chance, and another and another, It took me awhile to get strong enough to say enough.

When I did that was what broke the fog. I calmly handed him my rings, and said I'm done, you must go. Iwill no longer be disrespected, and I will no longer share you. You want her, go. Have her. When he started packing his shit, that's when his fog fell away and he had his I get it moment which included boo hooing and snot running down his face.

Would he has stopped sooner if I had been strong enough sooner? I don't know, but I do know that having a real consequence that was mighty big did make the difference.
You can't not demand the respect you deserve over fears that her messed up mom (I read your posts yesterday) will convince her that having an A is ok because you are controlling or whatever other messed up nonesense she may spew. Your wife has a lot of FOO (family of origin) issues to work through, to figure out why she made her choices, and fix that, you cannot force her to do this, she has to be willing to see it for what it is.

Keeping her the way she is now, isn't really that great of a prize either is it? You have to decide what you want and what you are willing to tolerate, and go from there.

((((and strength))))

hopefulmother posted 11/26/2013 09:29 AM

Re-write the basic NC letter from the site and send it certified mail. Give it a week in my opinion to show the OM that he is out of her system. Use Thanksgiving as an excuse to show that she realized what and who is more important. Send it Saturday or something?

She left the door wide open for him. She is stringing him along with her confession about how she still feels about him. She is still concerned more about him and her loyalty lies there. She needs to show him where the loyalty is now. She needs to show no concern for him at all.

You have a right to be angry, feel betrayed again, and hurt. I would 180 her...her head is still up her ASS.

You will find that this type of crap is more hurtful than the actual A. So sorry she is doing this and expect it to go on for several months. You need to decide where the line is. Let her know that you will not accept anything like this again. There will NOT be any I am sorrys to the OM or you are gone.

lordhasaplan? posted 11/26/2013 09:30 AM

When I did that was what broke the fog. I calmly handed him my rings, and said I'm done, you must go. Iwill no longer be disrespected, and I will no longer share you. You want her, go. Have her. When he started packing his shit, that's when his fog fell away and he had his I get it moment which included boo hooing and snot running down his face.


THIS!
Scorched earth. She makes the decision to break NC, you levey consequences. Hand her your ring, get divorce papers drawn up and tell her you have had enough. Maybe she will wake the hell up. If not you dont want to be married to this monster, she is keeping him on the hook for when things die down then she is going to go right back to her ways. Rattle the cage! Is there a spouse on the other end of this? If so I would notify them immediatly as well.

atsenaotie posted 11/26/2013 09:32 AM

emotionalman,

In your other post yesterday, I suggested that you ignore what your WW was or was not doing, and take the time to work through your stuff. Then, in May or July you could decide if you wanted to remain M to your WW and work on R, or if you were ready to move on.

I made that recommendation presuming your WW would maintain NC, and it would be "safe" for you to remain in the M and work on your post dday stuff while your WW sorted through her crap with the A, your MIL, etc.

I am changing my advice.

You had a dday a year and a half ago with this woman. Recently you had another dday, and now she has broken NC.

You need to protect yourself and take steps to ensure she does not drag you down with herself, the OM, and her mother. I forget if you have contacted an attorney yet, if not please see one (or two) to see what your rights are and to ensure you do not make any bad moves. See what is involved in a legal separation if permitted in your state. Initial consultations are typically no cost. Take steps to protect money from her. This may mean moving a portion of your savings to an account only you can access, and having your pay deposited to that account and not a joint account. Close or limit credit levels on accounts to prevent her running up large debts. Ask her to move out until she is willing to put you first (ahead of OM and her mother), begin work on her issues, and meet whatever boundaries you establish. The attorney can assist with what is allowed or not allowed with these actions.

Meanwhile, read in the healing library on the 180. Get the recommended books to read (Not Just Friends by Glass, Sexual Detours by Hines), they will help you to understand what is happening, and to accept that it is not your fault. Expand you network of friends so that you have social and emotional support beyond your WW. Exercise, it is a great way to work off stress and anger. Get back to old hobbies and activities from before you were M, the things that made you interesting. Minimize expectations for the coming holidays.

None of what I wrote above says you must divorce her now, unless you want to. I am saying to protect yourself from her drama, her dysfunction, and possible financial impact. Work on healing yourself anfd moving forward from this.

ETA: my FWW did not begin to really work on her crap until I moved out of the house heading for D. Listen to what the people are posting to you, her abusing you ends when you decide it does.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:37 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]

hopefulmother posted 11/26/2013 09:41 AM

BTW...sounds like she may be broken and has a family history of a broken mother. She needs some serious IC. This M will never work if her mother or some AP is always in the way.

The M is between you two...no room for ANY third party (mother or OM).

You need to decide if this is worth it for you if she can't make a M work for only two.

stronger08 posted 11/26/2013 09:58 AM

Ya know setting boundaries is a lot like hitting a baseball. Its the follow through that counts. So what's your plan on the follow through ? She crossed a boundary you set. I hope you follow through with some form of consequence. Otherwise there is no point in setting them. I'm going to be blunt with you. I can sense your fear just from your posts. Your afraid of losing her. While its understandable, its also counter productive to R. A WS thrives on your fear. They get empowered from it. And if they have no fear of reprisals for their actions, why would they stop doing what they want ? I have some news for you brother. You already lost her the day she slept with another man. All you have now is just the legalities of a M. Its apparent she still harbors feelings for this jerkoff. Right now your acting like the warden of a prison. That's no way to live and its certainly not recipe for a healthy M. When my XWW broke NC I felt I had no other option but to leave the M. Sure she was playing a good game of making me think we might have a chance. But she wanted to eat cake. I closed the bakery. You also need to stop worrying about what your MIL is going to tell her. Your WW is going to do whatever she wants to do. No matter what you or her mother says. Its a tough spot to be in right now my man. But of you don't show strength and determination now, she will walk all over you like a cheap rug. Bottom line here is that you cant make her R. You cant change her. All you can do is react accordingly to what she does. You can stay there and keep taking her shit and be miserable. Or you can be proactive and do something about her behaviors. As I see it you have nothing further to lose by taking a harsh stance. Will she snap out of it by doing so ? Who knows, it could go either way. But at least your telling her loud and clear that your not going to accept her shit any longer. Your focus needs to be about your happiness and healing. If she decides to jump on board, that's great. If not at least your on your way to healing. I pray you do what's best for YOU right now.

heforgotme posted 11/26/2013 11:02 AM

I feel like I need to kick her out of the house.

I think you are probably right about this.

I feel like if she moves in with her mom, her mom will convince her never to try and win me back (her mom thinks I'm controlling and terrible for her).

She knows what really happened and if she is that easy to convince then it says alot about her commitment to your marriage (or lack thereof). Don't get me wrong, I would be concerned about this too, but unfortunately you can't let that stop you from doing what needs to be done. She has proven that without consequences, she will just continue.

I really, truly hope she wakes up. You are offering her an incredible gift, and she is throwing it back at you with both hands.

painfulpast posted 11/26/2013 11:21 AM

I am sorry your wife is so far up her own ass that she's still thinking like a whore that needs OM to still think of her as a nice, caring person. She doesn't need him at all, but she thinks she does. She just can't be the bad guy.

If she can't be the bad guy with him, do you really think she's going to 'confront' her mother about what she says about you? No f'n way! She cares what OM thinks. Mommy will never be disappointed by her, ever.

If my H had EVER said 'we had fun' to OW, he'd be gone, no questions asked. He apologized to her when I found out because he knew the shit was going to hit the fan and that pissed me off to no end. If he had ever said it was 'fun' cheating on me? Buh bye scumbag.

No, you shouldn't care at all if mommy dearest gets her way. Your wife told her boyfriend it was fun. Do you really care about anything else?

Throw her out on her ass. Tell her mommy why you've thrown her whore daughter out, and compliment her on the fine job she did raising this entitled bitch that thinks everything she does is A-OK.

And then, the end.

[This message edited by painfulpast at 11:23 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]

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