My story is in my profile and I apologize this will be long, I have not yet confided in anyone about this situation. I thank anyone in advance for reading this and any support/advice that may go with it.
Two days ago was basically DDay #2. I discovered a draft in a work email on WH phone to OW. I suspect he was using it to draft the message, that very day. It was very obvious they were still in contact, and what I learned was he was at her house the day before for a short period of time and left so she could bath her kids. WTF! I immediately handed him the phone, he was right there and I took our daughter up for her bath. He followed and said, we need to talk about this. I said after our daughter had gone to sleep.
I was in a much angrier and disappointed state than dday #1. I basically asked him to start talking. He explained that he never broke contact like he had said. I always suspected because he claimed he did it verbally, and I doubted it. He had taken much of the relationship underground, using his work phone and email more than personal, but not far enough. We talked, he admitted he can't get over her, that he has issues and needs help. His reaction this time was much different as I spoke to him. He was not as defensive, but not totally remorseful. I asked about it being more than an EA again, he said no. I was mad that he lied to me and during our first MC session. We decided that he really needed IC, and that until he could work on some things internally, MC was not going to be productive. He also let me read some things from "Not Just Friends" and agreed to read it finally. And most importantly, he asked for help writing a NC letter. I slept no more than 30 minutes that night and yesterday at work was a struggle. I stayed much more detached than I had in the past and tried to obsess much less.
After work and picking our daughter up, I came home, I was polite, conversed if he initiated, but kept it short. He said he called to ask for an IC appointment, he told me all the house chores he completed before I came home and that he was heading to the gym with his friend and would be back to help get our daughter ready for bed. He left, and I noticed his work car keys on the table, he usually has them. I grabbed them and I went and took his air mac from the car. I wanted to know if any imessages were on there or if he had sent the message to OW I discovered the day before. I was not prepared for what happened next.
The imessages started to load and in the preview pain I saw some messages to his SA friend. I read as they populated. Some where from the previous week and some were from earlier that day. He was giving details I had never known. That he was about to have sex with her in his office, the day of our MC session! But her BS called as they just started. Realization 1, it was a PA. Many messages were about how he wished he could stop, and he talked about the night before and how he was sure I would throw him out. Then the second bomb, he told his friend she was pregnant, that she didn't know whose it was, his or her BS and she was going to terminate. Holy F!!!!! It was physical and he was irresponsible. He was more horrible than I thought.
The conversation went back to about wanting to stop, but flip flopped about having plans to go out near xmas for dinner with her and worried that would feed it more (no Sh*t Sherlock!). All the while, I was surprised that his friend had constructive criticism, saying that his behavior was destructive and that giving in was not going to help things and he would keep the cycle going. (FYI the A was not all bliss, they had conflict and issues throughout). I finished reading and I couldn't help it. I texted him. "We are done". Within 60 seconds I got a call asking what it was about. I simply said, "I know it all, no need to confess or lie, I know everything I need to know". He asked how and I told him I took his laptop, he first got a little angry but then essentially rambled and said, "my life is over, now what?, I'll come get my things". I said I cannot talk at the moment, our 17 mos old is running around and I need to breathe. I was almost hyperventilating at this point. He said he was on his way home.
I went through so many emotions in about 15 minutes. Hatred, shock, numbness, disappointment, unable to breathe, sadness, worry, pain, confusion and even some relief. I needed to calm down and remind myself I am pregnant. I just sat on the couch and stared until he walked in.
I was calm at first. I don't even remember what I asked first. I basically said, well there is nothing to hide now. I asked some questions, now that our previous Q&A was obviously bogus. He answered. I said, I know what you will lose here, but I asked him what he had to lose by losing her and their relationship. He said, "absolutely nothing." That he knows that, he knows it would never work and yet he couldn't stop. He said I got pregnant before it became a PA, we have not been "together" since, but he has been tested and is clean. I had no idea where to go from here. Do I kick him out, do I consider R? I knew from the messages he wanted to come clean but was waiting til after the holidays. I asked him why, when he fully knew I did not want to deal with TT. That pretending to take the steps and then coming clean in 5 or 6 weeks would have negated everything. He said he just couldn't bring himself to tell me. He kept saying "I knew I was wrong, I know I'm messed up, I need help and you deserve so much more. I thought if I did the IC and NC that I could in the mean time learn how to talk".
This went back and forth for a little. I asked what he wanted to do. I told him I can't make any rash decisions at this point in time, I was too upset and confused. He said he never wanted out, but completely understands if I do. I knew what he meant but I got upset. I told him, if you want out, then go, I am not making that decision, if that is yours, you need to own it. He said that is not what he wants. I talked about what I need from him to R, and that he's going to have to do a lot more then he had been willing to before and that the path was going to be long and rough. I will try to work with him, but that I cannot R alone and only he can fix himself. The IC can help, I can help, but he has to put the work in. I said I needed NC, I need transparency. I said I don't want to be a parole officer, but I need to know that if I want access, I have it. I need empathy and remorse. I decided for now I still do not want to out the A to my family, I cannot handle the outside judgments. They know we are in MC, they know he had a rough upbringing, but they think for much simpler marriage issues. I, as hard as it is, agreed to not tell OW BS. He works for the company and I know him and his personality. He would want to physically harm WH, and he would out it to the company jeopardizing his job and most certainly sue for sexual harassment.
While I understand WH has demons and regret, that is not enough. He said he knew what he could lose and he understands that I am making no promises, only giving the chance to R. He said he understands that this is not my fault in any way and he wants to help us heal. He said he never thought he was capable of this and he has no idea how he let this happen, he isn't even sure at what point he it all turned away from our marriage. He said he wants help. He said he feels like a weight has been lifted and that he can actually talk to me now. I said I am pregnant and for the sake of our daughter, our unborn son and our family, if he is willing to do the work, I am willing to try. I didn't set a deadline, but come spring, after the baby is born, I may feel differently.
I told him I didn't want him to leave, but for the time being, I did not want to share a bed, and though I desperately need a hug, I do not want one from him.
I think that's the gist of it. He stayed on the couch, he has been amicable and giving me space. He printed the NC letter and told me he would let me know as soon as he gave it to her today. I asked if he thought he could do this. He said he wants to do this. I said I don't expect this to be easy for him. He said he is fully confident that she is prideful enough, has waivered during their A many times about her guilt, that once she gets the letter she won't persue. But that if she does try to contact him, he will tell me. I want to believe him, I really do. I know I can't control him and that is the hardest part. I told him that he always has a choice and that the past doesn't have to define him. we can't erase it, I can't forget it, I can try to forgive and we can work on a new and better life. I'm going to give hope a chance. I'm going to try and implement all I have learned on this site and from books. Though I know I can never rationalize this situation, I am trying to see both sides and know that while I am broken, he is too.
Its such a strange feeling. I feel broken, yet I feel relieved to know the truth. I cry one moment, then I feel numb. I keep thinking this all must be a bad dream. This is so hard. I hope I am strong enough. I need to be for myself and my children. I'm struggling to not look complacent, but not overwhelm myself with it every waking moment.
Tell the BH. He deserves to know and it's the best way to end the A.
Damn I wish I'd have taken the blue pill too. (love the reference).
You will find many wonderful people here, and you will find tons of great advice and support. Please make sure you are putting yourself and children first. If you are having trouble with sleeping and eating please talk to your OB/GYN they see this stuff more than you can imagine, and will provide you with nonjudgmental support.
I would strongly urge you to see an attorney to find out what your rights are, and what his responsiblities are. He is still deep in the fog, and though he knows he wants to stay, he will have a difficult time breaking the habit of the A. For this reason, you should share what you know with OW's H. Don't tell your spouse you are going to do it, just do it. Blowing it wide open so that all parties involved know helps to kill an A quicker than keeping it in secret.
As far as her being pregnant and terminating, that would most likely be made up nonesense to keep your H hanging on, and you need to tell him as much. He also needs to be completely transparent with you, and not lock his phone, or computer, and I would strongly recommend installing spyware on both, so you can keep track of him.
It is difficult and we have been there, but know that you should be putting your and your kids needs first, and he should as well, and if he isn't or is doing it begrudgingly then he probably doesn't get it.
Keep posting, keep reading.
And..honestly...an expected consequence of fucking another man's wife is getting your ass handed to you by her husband. Almost all BH's want to confront the OM..very few do. They don't want everyone to know their wife behaved like a slut. Just as you don't want everyone to know your WH is a cheating asshole.
You do not know he would make her sue for sexual harassment..and if you have a copy of the emails and texts..then there is evidence that your WH's attention was welcome.
And..if the entire company knows..so? Your WH is outted as a cheater. Affairs have consequences. If you sheild your WH from these consequences..he will continue to cheat.
You do not know how her husband will react. but,just as you deserve to know, so does he.
And...your WH was at her home..around her children?? So..mommy brought her boyfriend over while daddy was gone? Any woman who would do this is disgusting.And,frankly, any man who would do this is so reckless and thoughtless. those poor kids.
You need to be tested for STD's. So does her husband.
Please tell. Do not let fear stop you from doing the right thing. The best way to save your marriage? EXPOSE.
DO NOT tell your WH that you are telling her BH. He WILL warn her. She will concoct a story of a crazy, jealous wife,blah,blah,and make you out to look like you're insane.
If your WH is confronted? Then maybe he will learn not to do it again.
And his biggest reason for making you promise not to tell her husband? To protect HER. It's not about you...it's about protecting her..and their affair.
You already agreed to not tell....and look what he did...he took it underground..he continued to spit in your face. he saw the pain you were in..and didn't stop. That takes a special kind of asshole who can do that. An affair is an act..several acts..of abuse. Since dday 1, he has continued to abuse you.
End it. Stand up and take control.
DO not protect their affair.
[This message edited by confused615 at 9:41 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]
..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.
As far as telling the OW BS, that is a decision you are best to make. It can help to end the A but if there are consequences that you do not want to deal with then not telling may be the best thing to do. I have not told in my situation, I have actually used not telling to strictly to enforce NC and it has worked well. You best know your own situation and what is best to do. As you said you know the OW BS and are able to form your own assessment on what he might do.
Your WH needs to wake up fast! Many of the things you have done seam like the right thing to do given your situation. Even though this is so difficult to deal with, you sound like you have great strength within you. You need to keep the pressure on your WH just like you are doing that this is his last chance and he has no more room for any more mistakes. No more procrastinating not reading books provided, no more waiting to schedule IC, no more not letting you view things you want to see, none of that. His life has forever changed if he wants to stay in this M - either he has to accept that or he needs to go.
You gave your WH a chance and he took advantage of you. This time I think you just focus on you and your children. Fixing himself (IC, reading books, practicing new behaviors), proving NC, maintaining NC, proving he desires and values you, establishing and maintaining boundaries with OW... all of this is on your WH. None of this is your responsibility.
Believe me if you don't...you will live with that regret.
Be prepared for a long, emotional roller coaster as the extent of this now PA affair hits home over the next several months.
In addition...be there when he gives her the letter. Let her see the face of his wife. Look her in the eye and tell her you know everything. Maybe the humiliation and guilt will get at her.
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
First I would like to say that I cannot be there when he gives the NC letter. Because he already gave it to her. He called me right after, that was about an hour ago. I asked how it happened. He said he asked her to step aside he needed to talk to her. He claims that he said "Listen, I've decided to work on my marriage and here is a letter that says all I need to say" and he walked out. I re-asked to make sure there was no mixed message and he reconfirmed and said he left immediately because he didn't want her to respond. He has to travel to other work locations and he said he plans to stay away from the office as much as he can to help create distance.
As for outing to the OW BS. This is so hard. I know it will cut the A, no doubt. I am not 100% sure OW is truthful about the pregnancy, his message said she uses BC, and wasn't far along, even his SA friend asked if it was an act. She doesn't want him to pay or come when she terminates, it could be an act, he doesn't know and neither do I. Her BS is also not morally sound. As I said, I know him, my WH used to be his manager and they talk on occasion still (ugh), I have witnessed his messages about "looking" and have seen some pictures, not sure if they are just "looking' pics or actual conquests. OW and BS are very young, from less than fortunate backgrounds, not married but have kids and obviously have issues. I also agree that her actions are disgraceful bringing WH to her home like that, I still can't believe he went.
ReunitePangea mentioned that there may be consequences of telling that I am not ready to deal with. You are right, while I am not sure how he will really act, there is a very good likely hood that he will do at least some of what I fear. My biggest fear is my husbands job, it will affect us a great deal, he will not, at least not in the next several years find a job that can replace the income he has worked to achieve, that has finally helped us get above water. Believe me, I have looked based on his credentials, which is solely experience based, no degree. I know for a fact someone of the same position as WH was let go almost immediately when his BW accidentally called their manager thinking his number was the OW. They do not handle this adversity very well. If I make this decision, I really have to be ready to handle the financial outcome. I don't know that I can do that with this baby on the way and it's going to take a little time to access the true impact. I would certainly have to move and take loss on the house. Though WH had said if I made him leave his first priority is to make sure me, the new baby and our daughter have appropriate financial support. Without a job, that would be very difficult to do while supporting himself.
I know we briefly discussed that if he were cross any boundaries I have set that all bets are off and the consequences of that would be certainly all on him. Perhaps I should clarify that most definitely includes letting the OW BS know? I know that's not an ideal situation, but he is most fearful for his job. I should also state that I have not ruled out outing to some family. I may confide in my sister, but maybe also my brother, who just so happens works in the same office, which could be good. Though this is not an office environment where people sit at desks, there is a central office but WH manages 13 locations across a couple states and travels frequently to them all, and so does my brother. OW however, spends most of the time in the central office.
I also want to clarify, that before last night, it is not that WH wasn't attempting to be transparent. He didn't like that I may see some personal conversations with his buddies, he knows I have most of his account information. I, until this morning did not know his apple ID password or have readily access to his work email. And I can't check on him all the time, so he was obviously deleting some evidence, but he certainly didn't get it all.
I have access to both his phones, laptop, email, FB, etc. I have for a while and he knows that. I do all the finances and control all those accounts. He has just come to realize that he may have to forsake some of the buddy privacy in order to be fully transparent. I told him, I am not interested in him working through feelings with his buddies, I am not ok with him divulging information to them that I should be aware of. Not sure how I can prevent him from texting and deleting during the day. I have considered asking him to sync his messages to an ipad that he can't access before I do. It is an idea.
UGH, why can't this nightmare just end?
How do you know he gave it to her. I don't understand why he could not have emailed it in front of you?
[This message edited by ninebark at 10:48 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]
Ninebark, from what I have seen via account, there is not electronic any connections to her other than cell phone and work email. He would have to send it to her work email, I am not sure that is the best idea. I did bring that up. I know this could just be to cover up, but he said he wants this to be the last contact, he didn't want her to respond, because its much easier via writing than verbally to respond.
I really wish they were not co-workers and/or that her BS didn't work there as well. The whole job jeopardy really makes this harder for me.
Because the A and your discovery of it is being managed instead of ended and addressed. No one has any accountability for the betrayals and lying.
There is a great deal of experience that telling the OBS helps to end the A and keep it from going underground because there are two sets of eyes. There is little evidence of telling the OBS having a negative outcome for the BS, but you have to do what is right for you.
As for the job and income, FWW quit her job where her last OM works, and does not apply to locations where she would be working and could see one of her OM. This is her decision because she is disgusted by what she did with them. The impact to us has been a 30% drop in her income, but no issues with NC.
Without a job, that would be very difficult to do while supporting himself.
Yep, bad decisions often have very bad consequences. He might have to take a lower paying job, work double shifts, rent a small room somewhere, ride public transportation until he gets re-established.
He didn't like that I may see some personal conversations with his buddies,
FWW did not like it either, but for a period there was simply no secrecy for her until she had earned back some trust.
And I can't check on him all the time, so he was obviously deleting some evidence,
This is not a remorseful and transparent person. This is a person doing damage control and trying to manage the situation. And you are right that you cannot check up on him all the time and catch everything. There are many ways to hide communication and cheat. He needs to prove to you that he is not, it is not your job to prove he is being honest.
Doing chores, no longer having sex with the OW, and giving you some of his passwords to sanitized accounts is not ending the A. Owning and addressing his issues, expressing remorse that you are in a position of feeling you have to check up on him, and being transparent and honest with all involved is the way for him to begin to end his A and recover.
I don't see where it matters that OBS has moral flaws. His wife is cheating - you can't get much lower than that. Your H is cheating, and somehow he deserves something that OBS does not?
Your H should be looking for a new job, not trying to find different offices to work in. As long as he works with her, this will happen. You'll be back her in 3 months with stories of burner phones and deleted messages.
Your H needs a new job, and OBS needs to know.
I may be setting myself up for extreme disappointment in a few months but I need to get through this pregnancy and not lose my job in the process.
As for the transparency, that was before last night. Based on my conditions last night I explained what I really mean by transparency and he didn't like it of course, but he said he understands and agrees. I told him over time he would have privacy again. I guess I'll have to see how the near future goes for me to know if he is really agreeing and being transparent.
painfulpast - I agree, I'm allowing this to be more difficult for fear of not knowing what might really happen if I tell her BS. And I do fear that in a few months this could all happen again. I don't know that he can up an quit, I was out of work just last year and we just climbed out from that. He has said, he will look for another job, he is not opposed to leaving, but it is scary to have a family and have no job. Finances were always a stressor in our life and I know it would not help our R if that was the case. If we have to go that route, I may as well D, deal and move on and forget R. Before the A, there were some scary financial times and it almost broke us. WH FOO and history with this sort of thing plays a big role in how he copes. Which is not well. There is no doubt I am a stronger person than him, he has some very serious insecurities and issues, I knew some when we met, I had no idea until recently the depth and trauma of his childhood, which plays a big role in his character flaws today.
Just thinking of what could happen if I tell her BS is making me anxious and giving me heart palpitations. I know it shouldn't but it scares me.
Sounds like an environment what "Not Just Friends" calls is hostile and inappropriate. So many A's and it has become acceptable to everyone.
No...he has no buddy privacy rights now. They are not a friend to the marriage and need to go. They are probably busy covering their own A's.
Another reason to blow this all up. There IS a reason why these types of places have consequences...to keep A's from running rampant with their employees.
But, I understand your need on that job with a baby on the way. Your job has just become that much harder on your own.
Just thinking of what could happen if I tell her BS is making me anxious and giving me heart palpitations. I know it shouldn't but it scares me.
Odds are nothing will happen. OBS doesn't want to have no income. OBS doesn't want to go to jail for assault. OBS doesn't want the world knowing he married a whore. OBS will feel like you, and me, and all other BSs - broken, beaten down, sad, scared, numb. He won't go running through his office with a gun. Besides, OW will be there begging him to do nothing because of how embarrassed she'll be. No, in almost all cases absolutely nothing happens except 2 people watching instead of one.
Ask yourself this - how would you feel if he knew and didn't tell you? Would you be humiliated, ashamed, wonder why no one bothered giving you the truth? Would you ask why he helped your H hide his cheating? Would you wonder why you didn't find out on day 1?
In the end, telling him is up to you. He does deserve the truth, there is no question about that. This affair should be watched on all sides, not just yours, no question there either. If you simply won't tell out of fear, that's your call completely.
I always think it's sad when OBS isn't let in on the dirty little secret.
If you simply won't tell (and again, your fear is probably very unfounded) then make it clear to your H that if he EVER has contact with her again, or if she contacts him and he doesn't tell you, that the first thing you will do is tell her husband. Let him know that the next time he won't find out because you know - you'll find out because OBS knows. Make it very clear - there is not going to be any discussion next time. You will tell OBS, and you will throw him out on his ass.
Be clear, and strong. If he thinks you're bluffing he won't care. If you say it, you need to mean it.
he has some very serious insecurities and issues, I knew some when we met, I had no idea until recently the depth and trauma of his childhood, which plays a big role in his character flaws today.
As of right now, these are his problems. His early traumas cannot cause you to relive a trauma today. If he cannot maintain himself then for your own sake he needs to go. You won't be a very good mother if you're a basketcase.
His FOOs, while sad, are his. They don't give him the right to behave this way. His cheating won't fix his FOOs, and he's happy to drag you down with him. NOT FAIR.