Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-

SurvivingInfidelity.com Forum Archives

like us on facebook
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: Phoenix2rise (45723)

User Topic: You can lead a horse to water....
AFrayedKnot
♂ 36622
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, November 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We all know the phrase "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink". I think when most of us hear this phrase we tend to focus on the powerlessness of "you can't make them drink". We forget the first part.

YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER

As BS's we are not completely powerless. We have the ability to guide our WS in the direction of healing. Not only can we, but in many cases we must. Many of the attitudes, ideas, and behaviors of our WS that allowed them to have an A have been so ingrained in them for so long they see them as normal. They don't know that a different way exists.

I think most of us can agree that selfishness is one of the largest contributing factors in the ability to have and A. Selfish is defined as:

Selfish-adj- (of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others, chiefly concerned with one's own personal profit or pleasure

The exact opposite of selfish is empathy. Empathy is defined as:

Empathy-n- the ability to understand and share the feelings of another

For R to be successful there needs to be a transformation from selfishness to empathy. How is this supposed to happen? We wish this would happen by magic. We wish they would just know. We wish that they could just understand what we are going through. They won't. They can't. They don't know where that water is. We need to show them.

I get so frustrated when I read here about BS not wanting to talk about it, about trying to keep the peace by holding their feelings in, about not rehashing it over and over again. If we are feeling it, our WS's need to know!!! If we are rehashing it, our WS's need to know!!! Every crazy thought we have, our WS's need to know!!! They need to "understand and share the feelings of another" and they can't do it without our help.

We are each others eyes and ears. Our perceptions of reality are skewed by our life experiences and patterns of our behaviors. Right off the bat we ask for honesty and transparency of our WS's. We expect them to know exactly what that looks like. We expect boundaries and borders to make our relationships safe. More than likely these have never been part of their reality. They don't know what they look like. We may not know what they look like. But we probably have a pretty good idea of what we would like them to look like. This is another opportunity to "lead".

I started inventorying my thoughts and behaviors throughout our relationship. I started expressing everything I had repressed over the years. I started sharing of my questionable behaviors over the years. I started sharing my deepest darkest secrets. I showed my fWS what honesty really looked like. I became vulnerable first. I "led" by example.

I removed passwords from my computer. I shared passwords for websites. I added her to my bank accounts. I showed her all past PMs and facebook messages from women over the years. I started telling her my daily plans and checking in regularly. I started taking pictures of where I was if it was out of the ordinary. I showed her what transparency looked like. I "led" by example.

I deleted any questionable facebook friends. I deleted any questionable email or phone contacts. I started letting her read any communication I was having with women. I started talking about the boundaries I put on myself with others. I told her about slips I had upholding those boundaries and created newer firmer boundaries in response. I talked about mindfulness and playing out the possible consequences of my actions before I took them. I showed her what boundaries and borders in a relationship look like. I started living like I wanted her to live. I "led" by example.

We as BS's have a lot of power, a lot more than we think. We can lead a horse to water!!! But we can't make them drink. If they don't drink we need to see them as dead weight and be willing to leave them behind. And that my be the most important thing that we need to express to our WS.


BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2668 | Registered: Aug 2012
5674emt
♀ 40012
Member # 40012
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, November 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Chico!!!
We had an MC 2 months ago and I was about to move out. It really was about ME not getting what I needed. I just didn't ask. Now I ask and let fWH decide if he is willing to do the work. So far, so good.
Not fixed yet, still anxious about the next step, but definitely better.


BS 53
WH 44
M 14 years at time of DD
2 young daughters
DD 12-8-12
OW=Xfriend
A-3 YEARS and her husband was an accomplice.
In R, IC, & MC Since 1 week after DD. On the mend with the help of God, Friends and Family.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Central FL
Joanh
♀ 39146
Member # 39146
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, November 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get so frustrated when I read here about BS not wanting to talk about it, about trying to keep the peace by holding their feelings in, about not rehashing it over and over again. If we are feeling it, our WS's need to know!!! If we are rehashing it, our WS's need to know!!! Every crazy thought we have, our WS's need to know!!! They need to "understand and share the feelings of another" and they can't do it without our help.

I a WW. Sorry if I over step. This and the rest resounded in me. Myself I want to hear and understand. Its a strange place to be. It's being vulnerable, Speaking personally its scary. That's when the bad coping mechanism step in. When this type of sharing and conversation happens, and it is slowly and finally starting too. Both of us can be vulnerable. I can hear him and try to best relate and understand how he is feeling. Sometimes it make it so very hard to look at him, it also makes me look even harder in myself. It also opens the door to share on both sides. This has been a struggle for us all thru our marriage.
Thank you Chicho for posting this. My BH really would prefer not to rehash anything, sees it as going backwards. But perhaps that me still being selfish , I would rather talk about it and learn and change things I need too. Or as I said it is starting to happen once in a while. Thank you though I hope you didn't mind me posting.

eta: fixed quote

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:37 AM, November 27th (Wednesday)]


BH 39
WW 43
D day November 9, 2012
3 children 22, 8, 6
Just....

Posts: 437 | Registered: Apr 2013
ShockedErica11
♀ 37550
Member # 37550
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, November 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get so frustrated when I read here about BS not wanting to talk about it, about trying to keep the peace by holding their feelings in, about not rehashing it over and over again. If we are feeling it, our WS's need to know!!! If we are rehashing it, our WS's need to know!!! Every crazy thought we have, our WS's need to know!!! They need to "understand and share the feelings of another" and they can't do it without our help.

I agree and disagree with holding your feelings in vs. "showing" a WS, especially in my case, where I had recognized my WH's failings and attemtped to lead by "example"; these were used as justifications to cheat on me and therefore make me unwilling to rehash what I had already hashed. Most BS's are in self-protection mode and it'll take a LONG time before they recognize and are willing to be vulnerable to a person who callously hurt them. And rage - if what "experts" on SI say is true on the 2-5 years bit - does not make a person empathetic nor sympathetic to their spouse who did them harm. They are angry, hurt and frustrated themselves, especially if they were doing the "work" before and their spouse - like mine - made it seem like me "leading by example" was an issue. Now, I have NO clue how to act around him.

Going to t/j a bit, but he told me that I threw thingss in his face, when I asked him what those things were, it was "things about his personality" that he acknowledges NOW that were true statements, but I am told that that was his justification. He claims that I was hard to talk to because I didn't let him talk and made him feel stupid. Now, he says that it wasn't true, that because I ramble on about things and know more about CERTAIN areas, he felt stupid in those areas, but figured he was just stupid in general instead of realizing that he's WAY smarter than me in other areas. I am INSANELY curious; apparently this too was a problem as I shouldn't have been asking about his day and just accepted that it was "Fine"; this was another flimsy justification.

But it doesn't change the fact that after being browbeated for so long that these "harmless" aspects of my personality were a serious problem for him, I don't know how to act, and that IS a frustration, and in being frustrated, wrathful and angry, I don't CARE to lead by example anymore when leading my example got me into this mess? I don't want to "teach" him anything anymore. He quoted Musiq Soulchild's song "teach Me" all the while cheating on me; why do I have to "teach" WH anymore when I tried for four years and he spent half that time cheating on me, perusing dating profiles, etc?

At that point, it's a battle between my logic and my heart and both have incredible arguments for and against this very subject.


Him (31): Taurus517 (17 mon EA/PA); others
Me (27): 3mo EA/PA (kissed once)
One too many D-days
(Full story: see profile)

Posts: 230 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Atlanta, GA
karmahappens
♀ 35846
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 9:51 PM, November 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nice post Chicho

Right off the bat we ask for honesty and transparency of our WS's.

We (BS) expect honesty and transparency with the WS's feelings and emotions. We question if they are being honest, if they are saying things to spare our feelings or make things look better than they are.

But then you have the BS who refuses to do the same

I get so frustrated when I read here about BS not wanting to talk about it, about trying to keep the peace by holding their feelings in, about not rehashing it over and over again.


You have to lose the fear of losing your spouse. If you cannot tell the truth, let them know how you feel, put all your cards on the table WHAT exactly are you holding onto? The illusion of a great marriage?

I believe many WS's need to be spoon fed our needs. Once they have the information and know what is expected..."where the water is" it is up to them to do their part.

So, um, yeah ...I agree


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3858 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
industriousbee
♀ 41324
Member # 41324
Default  Posted: 5:10 AM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If a WS cannot express or show empathy I wonder if they are forever selfish and likely to cheat again......? These definitions hit home for me.


Married 8 years
ME BS 30
HIM WS 33
DD 1.5 years old
DDAY 11-13-12

Posts: 116 | Registered: Nov 2013
Bobbi_sue
♀ 10347
Member # 10347
Default  Posted: 6:03 AM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, I didn't lead my horse to water at all. He found his way to it on his own and drank it too.

I believe many WS's need to be spoon fed our needs.

We are all different but I am not one to spoon feed a man my needs after he cheats. I would rather divorce than have to do that. I gave mine no map, very few rules, did not ask him to read books or join any forums, and he didn't do any MC or IC. I also did not really lead by example in ways suggested, such as giving him all my passwords and giving up all privacy. If I enjoyed some privacy before the A, I will continue to enjoy it the rest of my life...I'm not the one who cheated. I would not ask him to give up his privacy either if he didn't do something that would cost him his privacy forever if he wants to stay married to me. (Which he does and considers giving up his privacy forever a small price to pay).

I am faithful and loyal to him, and loving and kind most of the time. But I don't give him complete transparency.

As far as transparency, I did not have to teach my H what that was. It is as if he invented the concept himself because he offered me all his passwords and tells me regularly, for the rest of our lives I can check up on him in any way I want, search his car, wallet, clothes, phone and computer, garage, and make sure he is where he says he is (such as working late on occasion) any time. This is not faulting anything you said, Chicho. I realize that many BS are willing to work harder than I as far as saving the M. The only real work I feel I did was to accept his remorse and his efforts to be a better H, and to forgive him.


Posts: 5774 | Registered: Apr 2006
Topic Posts: 7

Return to Forum This Topic is Archived
adultry
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.