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Yakamishi posted 11/29/2013 13:38 PM

This is odd for me. Things are going remarkably well, but I could use a second opinion. I know I'm trying to wrap my rational mind around an emotional problem, but I need someone elses take on this. (Please WS welcome!)

MY story is in my profile, but to summarize:

WW had emotional affair for two years. We were going on a vacation in which I was staying an extra two days to do some golfing with the guys, and she was coming home with the kids.

OM tells her before she left that he was putting aside that next Friday when she got home for them to get together, and for her to Facebook him on her return. (knowing I would still be out of state)

So she comes home and Facebooks OM. He invites her over his house. Rest is history.

So my question for her was: What were you expecting to happen when you went over there? Why didn't you bring any protection? (Thankfully he did) What did you say or do that lead him to believe you would have sex? (OM did bring protection. Thank God)

Her response was: "I didn't know what was going to happen. I didn't think about it. I just wanted to see him."

I find these answers just....well frankly ...unbelievable. Literally.

She had an entire week in which she looked forward to seeing him. Imagining what they would do. Thinking about her next move as it were. etc

How is it she can say she didn't know they would have sex? As if it were a sudden surprise when he mounted her. Or that she could put herself in that situation and not expect it to happen?

I guess I'm frustrated. We had alot of TT in the beginning and are still sorting out the answers.

Sorry for the rant.

Camille87 posted 11/29/2013 13:59 PM

My FWH said the same thing, that when he went over to the OW's house late at night when her H was on a business trip that he didn't know they would end up in bed! Please! I think they know full well what would happen and don't want to admit the truth to themselves. I know he wasn't going over there to play Monopoly with her!

I have no answers for you. It makes no sense to me and I cannot wrap my mind around it either. I have just accepted that there are some things one will never understand about affairs unless you've had one.

Affairs are fantasy and there is nothing realistic or logical about them.

AML04 posted 11/29/2013 14:09 PM

I asked WH what he thought would happen when he told OW he had "feelings" for her. He said he didn't know, he just had to tell her.

I find it hard to believe too but there is a lot he doesn't remember. I got a lot of details, just not much on what he was thinking. He said he wasn't thinking, just living in the moment.

I hope you get answers that can help you.

Alyssamd24 posted 11/29/2013 14:10 PM

WW here....I obviously can't speak for her cuz only she knows, but I think she knew what would happen if she went there. ...she may just be afraid to admit that to both herself and to you.

Sal1995 posted 11/29/2013 14:15 PM

My wife supposedly didn't know what the OM wanted when he invited her back to his place for a nightcap. He's a divorcee who lived by himself. This is after they spent 3 weeks flirting, and right after they made out in public in front of other people. Any attempts to press her further are met with this standard line: "I wasn't thinking."

I'm not sure what's worse - the sexual/emotional betrayal, or the post D-Day nonsense that's come out of her mouth. There was plenty of both.

I feel your pain, Yakamishi.

Lostinthismess posted 11/29/2013 14:15 PM

Yeah. Apparently my husband didn't know when the ow knocked on his hotel door and he opened it, they would have sex. Big mystery I suppose.

Sal1995 posted 11/29/2013 14:23 PM

I should add that my wife's response evolved over time to the simple fact that, when OM propositioned her, she was compelled by "curiosity" to give it a go.

The bad news: she's about to lose a marriage that she apparently, inexplicably, wants to keep.

The good news: she will soon have the rest of her life to satisfy her curiosity.

I wouldn't dwell on it too much, Y. I think it comes down to this: they had the opportunity to cheat with someone they found tempting and attractive, and simply lacked the character, morals and integrity to say no. Also, as painful as it sounds, their desire to have sex with someone else overwhelmed the love they felt for us and the families we created with them (if applicable).

We always search for "whys" on this site. I think in most cases it's no more complicated than that.

karmahappens posted 11/29/2013 15:24 PM

Really?

I think her answer is insulting. She is a grown woman that had been having a LT EA and she didn't know what would happen?

She is either lying to you or in such denial, lying to herself.

Is it possible she has been lying and this wasn't their first physical encounter?

sailorgirl posted 11/29/2013 15:57 PM

Some people are masters of denial. They are their own thought police, clamping down on any contradictory, unpleasant or risky thoughts.

They actually don't think. Not because they are empty-headed or shallow, but because they are accustomed to actively stopping their brain from "going there".

My H grew up with role models who turned away from difficult thoughts all the time. Two alcoholic, abusive parents who distracted themselves, medicated themselves and lied to themselves in order to believe that they were good parents with no serious problems.

They lived with no self-analysis and tons of secrets which they even hid from themselves. I've watched MIL in action for 15 years, and she refuses to deal with reality. It's astounding how she holds on to the belief that H's brother is absolutely fine despite the fact that he has uncontrolled bipolar with psychotic features, is an alcoholic drug abuser, and has not had a job in over a decade (he's in his 40's and she supports him).

When H started down the slope with OW, he knew it was wrong. Rather than face himself as a cheater, tell someone and deal with it, his unhealthy coping mechanisms kicked in. "Don't think. Don't tell. Nothing happened. Everything's fine."

I believe him when he says he didn't think about what was going to happen when he drove to her apartment. He is quite literally capable of shutting down his brain.

When I would try to provoke him to think about what was happening to him (I didn't know what but something was terribly wrong) and he couldn't shut me out, he would literally fall asleep to avoid reality. When he woke up, all would be securely suppressed again.

(As a child, he would fall asleep to escape from the drinking and violence.)

Yakamishi, I think it's possible that your wife is telling the truth. She hid what she was doing from herself. Thinking about it would have brought a huge challenge. She didn't want struggle, angst, pain and guilt, so she didn't think about it.

Yakamishi posted 11/29/2013 15:59 PM

At this point anything is possible. I never dreamt (literally and figuratively) that she was capable of this.

MY personal assessment is I think she is denial over the entire affair. She has a hard time discussing it and facing facts. Always met with "I don't knows" and "I dont remembers". And I truly think she believes it. Like her subconscious is playing gatekeeper with all the painful stuff.

Still, I love her and things are better everyday/week/month. Just so damn slow when faced with answers such as that.

Brandon808 posted 11/29/2013 16:02 PM

Yakamishi,
She didn't "know" in the sense that they didn't agree beforehand to have sex. She did know in as much as she wanted him to try. Why didn't she take protection? Simple. If she had brought then she would have to admit to herself (and anyone else) that she planned to have sex with OM. It can be truly amazing the level of planning that goes into "spontaneous" events.

mindbody posted 11/29/2013 16:28 PM

I think your WW knew that sex was a possibility when she met OM at his house. I really have a hard time believing

I didn't think about it.

I think

I just wanted to see him.

is not the whole truth. She most likely knew they would be alone and able to say and do whatever they wanted. She may not have been sure she wanted it to go that far, but I believe she knew it might happen.

StrongerOne posted 11/29/2013 16:31 PM

Not thinking is possible, I believe.

Early on after DDay, my H went to the MCOW's house to see her new piano. Music was one of their bonds. Didn't tell me. Of course I found out. I asked him why he had done that, when he was trying to earn my trust back. Didn't it occur to him that going to her house when her H was not there was hurtful to me? Well, he said, I wanted to see if we could be together and just be friends again.

And what, I asked, would have happened if you discovered that you couldn't "just be friends"? Did that occur to you??

No, it had not. It truly had never entered his mind. He felt pretty foolish at that moment..

I think that the WS mindset can allow a WS to not consciously notice these very obvious things. They can lie *to themselves* perhaps even better than they can lie to the BS.

wifehad5 posted 11/29/2013 16:38 PM

Brandon pretty much nailed it I think.

AML04 posted 11/29/2013 16:38 PM

She didn't "know" in the sense that they didn't agree beforehand to have sex. She did know in as much as she wanted him to try. Why didn't she take protection? Simple. If she had brought then she would have to admit to herself (and anyone else) that she planned to have sex with OM. It can be truly amazing the level of planning that goes into "spontaneous" events.

This is exactly what I think happened with my WH. After their first tryst he decided to go hang out with her, alone, at her house after they had agreed it couldn't happen again and they would be "just friends". I think he wanted it to happen again but wouldn't admit it so that's what he told himself.

JustDesserts posted 11/29/2013 17:17 PM

It was "Full on" premeditation for me and xAP including both of us getting full std testing panels and exchanging results before 1st base. We planned and planned and planned our affair for months and months and months. When it left the launch pad, it was full blown EA/PA with a luurrvvvv cherry on top.

It bothers me how extended my premeditating was...meaning how much time I had to say "this is SO wrong" - and then NOT cheat. I had ample opportunity. And I failed spectacularly.

Oh, and I also "achieved" my affair by "affairing way down" with a profoundly mediocre xAP. Let's hear a round of applause for JD!!! Ugh....

My beautiful BW deserved and deserves so much more. I'm working diligently on the more...with, according to both of us mostly good but some mixed results.

[This message edited by JustDesserts at 5:25 PM, November 29th (Friday)]

Sal1995 posted 11/29/2013 17:19 PM

Interesting responses followed mine. Maybe "I wasn't thinking" is my wife's truth, as she understands it.

If so, that makes her a very dangerous person to remain married to. She can abuse me in all kinds of ways in the future due to her inability to think about the consequences of her actions.

Still, I think "I didn't want to think about it" is probably closer to the truth.

sailorgirl posted 11/29/2013 21:12 PM

Maybe "I wasn't thinking" is my wife's truth, as she understands it . . .

Still, I think "I didn't want to think about it" is probably closer to the truth.

I my H's case: "I wasn't thinking." and "I didn't want to think about it." are the same. Because it was ugly, difficult and terribly painful to think about the A (and also his childhood), he did not want to, so he didn't.

I grew up safe, loved, and with honest, moral role models. I can't gag my conscience. I can't turn off my empathy. My brain evaluates my behavior constantly. I can't stop thinking, especially if something is wrong/difficult/challenging.

H, on the other hand, spent his childhood suppressing his panic, disgust and anger at what was happening to him. He couldn't think about it, or he would come to the conclusion that his parents were capriciously cruel and incapable of loving or protecting him. Those thoughts are too overwhelmingly scary for children, so to survive, they shut down. They don't think. They also have to shut off their emotions because the more vulnerable they are, the more they get hurt. All that hurting changes nothing. So they learn to stop feeling.

that makes her a very dangerous person to remain married to. She can abuse me in all kinds of ways in the future due to her inability to think about the consequences of her actions

True. It was very dangerous to marry my H. I just didn't know it, and neither did he. His personality is deeply compassionate and thoughtful, but he was capable of turning that off. It took the perfect storm to trigger it, but in that context, he reverted to the "Rules" for families of abuse: Don't tell. Don't think. Don't feel.

Post-d-day, H has been to 60+ hours of IC to learn about his unhealthy coping mechanisms and change them. Now, in stressful or triggery situations, he practices. He thinks hard, he suppresses nothing, he feels all, and he talks about it. It is scary as hell for him, and disconcerting for me, too, but it's working.

All his toxic sludge from FOO is out in the open. He is facing it and he can handle it. His empathy for others is in full force. His relief and openness is palpable. He isn't a victim anymore and he makes his own rules: Always consider your family first. Think carefully and thoroughly. Feel your emotions fully. Share and reach out for help.

plainpain posted 11/29/2013 22:16 PM

Maybe by saying they didn't know what would happen, they are saying that they didn't premeditate to take the initiative. They determined that they would not necessarily say 'no' to whatever happened, or say 'no' to themselves if they got swept up. But they weren't thinking, 'I am going to GET SOME.' It's like a letting go - an abdication. Giving yourself over to it. Or, as my H said, 'She answered the door in her underwear, she had just had a shower, I just decided to go for it.' He wasn't PLANNING on having sex with her - but he was planning to take her out for dinner.

Vulcanized posted 11/29/2013 23:33 PM

I wasn't "planning" on it, but I wasn't "not planning" on fucking OP, either. On par with, I tripped, my pants dissipated & fell on his junk.

An easy way to not really take any responsibility for ones actions.

As a WW, I didn't "plan" on screwing OM. I just knew that the day I took off my pants & didn't stop him that sex would "happen". In my particular case, it was a big fat "FU" to XH. It was perfectly o.k. for him to rub his A in my face, so that was my justification to do the exact same thing back to him. Except, he never found out, so

There is no way that a grown person doesn't know that sex is a possible outcome in these situations.

eta: dang double negatives = no sense!

[This message edited by Vulcanized at 11:34 PM, November 29th (Friday)]