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shatteredheart posted 11/30/2013 09:34 AM

Hi everyone!

My ex-husband and I were married for just under 10 years and then we got divorced several years ago due to his multiple infidelities. Also, we have one daughter together.

A few months after my EXH & I split up, I met another guy from an online dating site. I really fell for this guy and I was totally devastated when after 2 years of dating he broke up with me. 3 months after that, he called me up crying & seemingly totally full of remorse for breaking up with me and he practically begged me for another chance. Although I was hurt & angry that he broke up with me, I decided to give him another chance. We got back together & a little under one year later he breaks up with me again.

It's now been six years since we originally started dating. We were together for a total of 3 years and it's been 3 years since we were last in a relationship together. While I've only done a little bit of dating since we split up, he's had several girlfriends. Most of these "relationships" only lasted for about 3 months max but he's been with his current GF for a year and a half now. I'm embarrassed to admit that I've stayed in touch with him off & on ever since we broke up. Mostly on though. The longest we've ever gone without talking to each other since we broke up is only a whopping 3 months. I think staying in touch with him was a huge mistake. It's made it so that I still feel emotionally attached to him & has made it very difficult for me to move on. I feel like such a loser that he's had several girlfriends since we split up & I still haven't even had one new boyfriend yet. I've definitely had my moments of feeling pretty lonely. I have friends but often really miss the companionship that comes with being in a relationship. I think deep down I stayed in touch because I still loved him & was scared that I might lose him forever. I'm pretty sure he has commitment issues (37 and never married&no kids). So, I think I was hoping that someday he would magically snap out of it and realize that I was the one he wanted to marry & spend the rest of his life with.

Also, in the past few years there were at least a few times where he'd practically beg me to back out with him. soon as I'd agree to give things one last shot I'd suddenly stop hearing from him & then within the next few weeks I'd find out that he had yet another girlfriend. SO, he's really jerked me around a lot the past few years. It seems pretty clear that he's obviously not serious or interested in wanting to reconcile with me. However, anytime I go more than a few weeks of total no contact with him he starts calling me and texting me like crazy. He says that it makes him feel so anxious when he doesn't hear from me. He tells me please don't date anyone else & seems all annoyed if/when I've told him that I'm dating someone else. He's even said that when he's ready to get married someday, I'm the one he wants to marry (although his actions sure as hell don't show that when he hasn't even wanted to be my boyfriend again for the past 3 years now). When he can't talk to me he acts like he actually cares about not wanting to "lose" me forever. But...whenever I do give in and talk to him nothing EVER changes. He's still clearly not serious about wanting to reconcile & be with me again, etc.

I've told him before that I want all or nothing. Like we're either together and both serious about trying to make things work for the long haul OR we're out of each others lives completely with zero contact. However, he has never respected my wishes about that. To further complicate things, I started borrowing money from him a year ago. At first, it was supposed to be just a one time thing but then it turned into several different times. He's now given me a couple thousand dollars over this past year. (I borrowed the money because I was going through a really rough time financially). He told me several times that if and when we got back together that I wouldn't have to pay him any of that money back. I tried to give him a large payment (well large for me) last spring in the amount of $300.00. He insisted on giving the money back to me. He said don't worry about it for now. I know you can't afford it, etc. You can pay me back later if/when you have the money.

Since then, he's basically kept saying the same thing. However, there's been a few times where I stopped talking to him for an extended period of time. When he couldn't get a hold of me, he got really angry and left me a message telling me I better call him back or he's going to call his f****g lawyer about the money I owe him, etc. I wasn't too worried really when he said that because we don't have any sort of written contract. That was the only time he ever said anything like that, but it still really upset me. It made me feel trapped. He doesn't want to commit to being with me yet when I try & do the logical thing and move on, he used the money as a way to basically manipulate me into staying in touch with me. He told me recently not worry about the money (regardless of whether or not we ever go back out). However, when I thanked him & asked him to please put that in writing for me he refused to do this. That really upset me because since he won't put it in writing, I think he wants to be able to use that as a way to "force" me to continue staying his friend.

I just don't know what to think/do about the money because he's changed his mind so many times about whether I do or don't owe the money someday. I wish I could just write him out a check for the total amount he gave me & be done with it but unfortunately I just don't have enough money to be able to do that. I tried to get him to do some sort of settlement offer but he refuses to do that. While it originally seemed so nice that he offered to help me with money, it ended up being a really bad thing because like I said I feel like he uses it as a way to manipulate me into staying his friend. I don't want to continue our phone only friendship. I don't want anymore money from him. If we're not going to reconcile then I just want him out of my life completely so I can find someone new that would love to be with me. It stresses me out so much that I don't know whether or not I'm going to have to pay him back all or part of that money. It's extremely frustrating that he won't ever give me a straight answer about it.

I obviously need to make some big changes in regards to my ex so I can stop being stuck like this. I loved this man so much & I wanted so much to marry him and have a family with him but he obviously doesn't feel the same way about me. He said before that he does but like the saying goes, actions speak louder than words. Plus, now I'm at the point where even if dumped his girlfriend today and begged me for another chance, I'm not sure if I'd even want to reconcile. I'm still pretty angry about the way he dumped me & then jerked me around these past few years. However, then I start thinking how nice it was for him to help me out financially the way that he did & that lessens my anger at least a little bit.

Any advice on all of this would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

[This message edited by shatteredheart at 10:12 AM, November 30th (Saturday)]

SoHappyNow posted 11/30/2013 12:19 PM

pm for you in your private messages, and I hope others can also give good advice!

Keep your chin up, no mess is unsolvable.

exhausted lady posted 12/1/2013 00:49 AM

Oh's time to put an end to ALL that crap! He's basically holding the loan over your head, and you're allowing him to do so. He's also keeping you on the back burner so he's got a soft spot to land when he gets done sampling every other woman in town.

If at all possible, pay that money back NOW! If that's not possible, draw up a promissory note with a clear repayment schedule, and a clause that if he refuses payment then the debt is null and void. He's using that money to keep his hooks into you. Make sure the payments can be made with total NC with him.

Next step....go NC (and I do mean TOTAL NC with this clown), and stick to it. It might not be easy at first, but it will serve you well. He's doing a mindfuck on you, and every time you interact with him, it continues. Be prepared for him to throw a hissy fit. If he does, get a restraining order.

I honestly think he's one of those guys that likes to think he has a harem of available women he can call on whenever his twisted little heart desires. Back away and actually LOOK at his actions! He thinks that "loan" means you're bought and paid for. PROVE HIM WRONG!

That money he loaned you is a paltry sum. I've spent more than that on a dog. YOU are worth far more than a dog! Value yourself enough to put this game-playing looser in your rear view mirror!!!!! FTG!!!!

NaiveAgain posted 12/1/2013 07:50 AM


Our first relationship after the WS is usually one of the most difficult.

He is manipulative and emotionally abusive. He is using a tactic called intermittent reinforcement (google it). It is extremely powerful (it is how the casinos keep people coming back for more).

You need to go totally no contact with this loser. Write him a check for as much as you can. A check gives you a paper trail of proof. Use a VAR or pocket recorder (if legal in your state) to tape record you offering him the check and him refusing (if he refuses again). You then have proof if he ever takes it to court. Stop allowing this man to bully you!

He has you scared, confused, and has beaten you down enough to where you are content with the table scraps he is throwing your way.

Also, why on Earth would you even consider going out with him again after he has dumped you? And dated around. And then wants to come back to you when his dating pool is slow. You aren't some guys' back up. You are a priority! Don't allow him to treat you as second best.

It will be painful at first to completely go no contact, but it is like withdrawal. Time will help, but each time you have contact, you reopen the wound and have to start anew. Stop letting this idiot wound you! One more contact of you trying to return his money, then no more. Ignore ignore ignore. Block his messages. And let him know that after this you do not want any more contact from him. Make it plain. "I am paying you back what I can, I will send a check for the rest later. I do not want any more contact from you, ever." Might as well get that on tape too, because you can use that for the restraining order you will get if he refuses to leave you alone.

ETA: Oh, after you are done with this loser, focus on yourself. Don't even try to date for a bit. Heal and grow strong. Figure out who you are and why you are worth more than what this guy is throwing your way. Once you realize what you are worth, then get back in the dating game. You will attract a higher class of guys.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 7:54 AM, December 1st (Sunday)]

fireproof posted 12/1/2013 09:37 AM

I would go NO contact right away. Don't pick up his calls and delete his email from your contacts. Don't look at his Facebook or ask about him- this is really harsh but it is a must.

You are dependent upon someone who is throwing crumbs and you are picking them up. Don't you deserve more? This man won't respect you unless you do.

As far as the money he is being manipulative. Don't play. Either you borrow the money from family to pay it back or you scrimp and save and try to save the money to pay him in one lump sum.

If neither is possible then let him try to come after you for the money. There was no formal agreement (I would still pay back in the future) so I don't think he can force you to pay - his loss. If you do pay him get a cashiers check so you can keep a copy to prove you paid him back even the $300. He is the type to say you never paid anything

It is all about him. Take a step back - has he done anything really for you emotionally- taken action to really love you?

He is a parasite sucking you of energy to let someone new into your life including yourself who is most important. Live authentically so you can see what kind of person would do this to someone- keeping you on a leash!

Focus on things to make you happy and value yourself.
Start today- delete your contact info for him.

[This message edited by fireproof at 9:38 AM, December 1st (Sunday)]

better4me posted 12/1/2013 12:47 PM

No contact with this guy is the way to go, he will keep acting this way and you are letting him by staying in contact with him. You are the one who can get yourself "unstuck"!! His actions certainly are speaking louder than his words. Listen to his actions.

You have no contract with him about repayment, therefore the money given is a gift...Pay him back when you can because it is good karma, but don't let him threaten you and scare you into being his "friend"--who the f*ck threatens friends? Manipulative assholes, that's who!

Abusive people know exactly what they are doing. It isn't about love, or "someday" it is about power and control. It is about him keeping himself in your mind and keeping you thinking about him all the time. He's getting off on that. Cut off all ties. Heal yourself. Get some IC maybe. Guys like this are hard to get out of your brain!

shatteredheart posted 12/1/2013 18:09 PM

Thanks so much for your input everyone. I really appreciate it!

I'm pretty busy with work tonight. So, I will just reply to one person at a time. If I haven't gotten back to you yet, I apologize and I'll get back to you just as soon as I can!

Exhaustedlady-Unfortunately, having a promissory note drawn up probably isn't going to work. I say this because my EXBF absolutely refuses to put anything about the money he gave me in writing. I asked him to do this on multiple occasions and he always says no. I definitely think he's using the money as a tool to manipulate me. I think he keeps jerking me around about the money and refusing to give me a straight answer about whether or not he even wants any or all of it back because he sees it as a way to keep us tied together. Even though he doesn't want to be with me, I think the idea of losing his fall back girl makes him feel really anxious and stressed out.

shatteredheart posted 12/1/2013 18:20 PM


I looked into it and unfortunately it is not legal to record telephone conversations without the other person's consent in my state. I wish that wasn't the case because I really liked the idea that you suggested!

You mentioned sending (or offering to send him a check) for as much as I can right now and then sending the rest later. I'm pretty tight on money right now & especially with Christmas coming right up I won't be able to afford to send him anything at all until sometime in January.

Maybe I could/should mail him a letter that he has to sign for to prove he actually received it. In the letter I could say something like..
I will resume my payments to you in January 2014. I will send you at least $20.00 every month & I will continue to do so until you're all paid off. Should you fail to cash the checks I send you, I will then assume that you don't care about the money and I will consider this debt null and void.

What do you guys think? Does that sound good? Actually, since there was never any sort of written contract between us maybe I shouldn't even commit to any particular amount per month in this letter. Maybe I should word it all the same as above but instead say something like I will send you money whenever I'm able to. Which do you guys think would be better? Mention a specific amount I'm send him each month or not? If I was going to send something like this, would it be better to send it via email instead so I'd have an electronic record and copy of it? I also like the idea of sending him a letter via registered mail that he has to sign for. However, what if he refuses to sign for it?

[This message edited by shatteredheart at 7:49 PM, December 1st (Sunday)]

fireproof posted 12/1/2013 19:54 PM

I wouldn't send any letter. You are hooking yourself.

Gently you have an unhealthy tie to this guy.

Read the posts no contact period. The $ was a gift. If you have it send it with a Cashiers check for your documentation without any long note.

Seek counseling and distance yourself.

shatteredheart posted 12/1/2013 20:09 PM

Hey fireproof,
Just saw your message to me. Okay. Maybe I just won't send any letter at all then. However, I'm still not so sure if the money should be considered a gift. He's changed his mind countless times on whether or not he cares about me repaying him the money. This makes it very stressful for me because I just want to know for sure whether or not I am going to have to repay him the money and if so, I want to know if it's going to have to be the full amount or not. Probably so because I tried to get him to agree to some sort of settlement before for a lower but still sizeable payment to him and he refused.

Like I said before, he never made me sign any sort of written contract. However, he might have saved texts and/or emails that I sent him where I asked to borrow money & told him that I would pay him back. (Yes, I know. That was pretty stupid of me to put it in writing).

It's too large of an amount of money for me to borrow from anyone that I know (like maybe my parents) & while I could scrimp and save to pay him back (although it would prob. take a really long time for me to save the full amount), I would hate to send him that money if it turns out that he really could care less about it. He's pretty wealthy so he definitely doesn't "need" the money. On the other hand though, he definitely has a very frugal/cheap side to him so he very well might decide that he does want the money back. I hate that he won't give me a straight answer about it. It's like how difficult is it?? Do you want the freaking money or not??

Also, I should probably mention that I've been telling him for quite awhile that I'll resume my payments to him in January. He recently told me not to worry about the money. I asked him if he would please put that in writing so that I didn't have to worry that he might change his mind & come after me for the money later on but he refused to do this for me. When I spoke to him recently I asked him if he really meant it when he said not to worry about the money & his response to that was basically don't worry about it for now but if you have the money someday it would be nice to get it back.

[This message edited by shatteredheart at 8:23 PM, December 1st (Sunday)]

exhausted lady posted 12/1/2013 20:18 PM

Exhaustedlady-Unfortunately, having a promissory note drawn up probably isn't going to work. I say this because my EXBF absolutely refuses to put anything about the money he gave me in writing. I asked him to do this on multiple occasions and he always says no. I definitely think he's using the money as a tool to manipulate me. I think he keeps jerking me around about the money and refusing to give me a straight answer about whether or not he even wants any or all of it back because he sees it as a way to keep us tied together. Even though he doesn't want to be with me, I think the idea of losing his fall back girl makes him feel really anxious and stressed out

Well, you made a good faith effort and he refuses to play fair. So be it. He has NO recourse in this case, and you can tell him to just kiss your ass. Once again, be prepared for him to throw a hissy fit when he sees that you really mean it.

He's a manipulator.....plain, pure, and simple. Quit playing that game and value yourself enough to cut him out of your life completely. He's NOT worth your time, energy, or the room he's taking up in your brain.

Time to dig out those bitch boots again!!!

fireproof posted 12/1/2013 20:49 PM

Gently this is about you. I am not standing in judgement but the amount of energy on this is too much because it is who you are that determines your next steps.

He won't give you a letter saying the debt is forgiven because there was no formal agreement.

If you don't want to pay it don't pay it. It is a Gift and his mistake not to require it in writing.

If you are going to ruminate on it and can't handle receiving his calls then pay it and borrow what you can from family.

If it were me regardless if he said he wanted it or not I would pay him because it is the right thing to do in my opinion.

Those are your options but to have him say don't worry about it continues the back and forth because he could change his mind and technically unless you pay him back he has a point. That in itself would make me save as fast as possible and get him out of my life or figure he can't hold me to the payment and sail off into the sunset.

Good luck!

shatteredheart posted 12/1/2013 21:14 PM


Even though he's mistreated me in a lot of ways, I do agree that paying him back would be the right thing to do. Like better said up above, it's just good karma. There's been a few times where I've practically insisted on paying him back for at least a good portion of it (I suggested $1,000). He just said his usual don't worry about it...FOR NOW.

I definitely agree that with all of you that I really need to go complete NC with him right away. However, due the whole money thing I really feel like I need to send him one last message. Borrowing from an idea that one of you suggested before, maybe I will just send him a text tonight that says something like..."I will resume my payments to you in January. Don't contact me again...ever". OR....

"I will send you money when I can. Don't contact me again...ever".

Also, what do I do if he writes me back and says something like "I already told you not to worry about it for now". What do I do then? Ignore him and go ahead and send him money anyways just because I think it's the morally right thing to do & then if he chooses not to cash the check I can at least feel good that I tried to repay him? Also, I should mention that I don't even have a car right now. I actually haven't had one since before my divorce which was several years ago. I'm getting to the point where I'm starting to get really unhappy about not having a vehicle so I'm really hoping to be able to get one sometime in 2014. It's especially important to me because my daughter is going to be learning how to drive sometime within the next year or two and I really want to help her learn how to drive. (She also would be taking a driver's ed course which her dad said he'd pay for).

So, with how badly I want&need a vehicle it might not be that realistic to try & pay him back as fast as I can. If I do that then I probably won't be able to get a car anytime soon. So, I do want to pay him back but I'm thinking maybe I'll try & send him $100.00 or so as a good faith effort to repay him & then make sure I send him at least a little something every month until he's all paid off.

[This message edited by shatteredheart at 9:56 PM, December 1st (Sunday)]

shatteredheart posted 12/1/2013 21:21 PM

[This message edited by shatteredheart at 9:34 PM, December 1st (Sunday)]

persevere posted 12/1/2013 22:12 PM

Separate the $$$ and the relationship. He's a manipulative ass so going NC is in your best emotional interest. If you feel the $$ was a loan Then send him one letter with your first payment and make it a money order, telling him the repayment schedule, not asking. You should also be clear in the letter that he's indicated the money was a gift but you feel uncomfortable with that and therefore you are repaying him. He's been washy washy in order to manipulate you - no more of that. Then stick with NC and follow thru. You don't need his permission for ANY of this - remember that.

If he will not discontinue contact file for a restraining order. DO NOT ENGAGE him under any circumstance - ignore or call the police if he shows up - but stick to NC.

Your first post indicates you understand what he's doing here, so he's clearly shown you who he is - believe him. ((Hugs))

shatteredheart posted 12/1/2013 22:55 PM

Thanks for your input persevere. I like what you said about how I don't need permission from him for any of this. You're absolutely right. Thanks for the reminder. It helped me to feel less hopeless about this situation and more empowered.

Actually, every single one of you has been giving me advice that's helping me to feel stronger and more empowered so thanks so much everyone!

persevere posted 12/1/2013 23:59 PM

shatteredheart - the one thing I've learned with dealing with people and relationships is that I DO have control and it's best to keep it simple. It only becomes complicated when we let others take control that is not theirs to take. (And when we do that, it's not that hard to redirect and fix it)

YOU are in control of your life and you are beholden to NO ONE but yourself. Keep posting and stay strong. ((Hugs))

fireproof posted 12/2/2013 10:44 AM

You don't need to say don't contact you ever.

You are tiring yourself to him- NC.

Save the money in a lump sum and mail it in 2 years.

If he hires a lawyer or threatens to come after you I doubt there is any legal resource.

Do not send him an email to say you will pay him x.

NC- that what is reaction is or isn't is irrelevant. Focus on IC - you are in a unhealthy mess.

InnerLight posted 12/2/2013 10:55 AM

I agree. No letters. No contact. No words for him to twist around. No drama. Block email, facebook, phone, etc. Save the money in a separate account so that this doesn't nag at you. You know it's the right thing to do. Mail it back in a few years. He has no recourse. If he does hire a lawyer to get it back from you then you can deal with an official repayment plan then, and you will already have some saved in that separate account. Good luck!

NaiveAgain posted 12/2/2013 11:57 AM

Also, what do I do if he writes me back and says something like "I already told you not to worry about it for now".
Ignore, but keep the proof. At this point, you should document every thing you can about the money. Dates/times/amounts/what was said (nothing emotional, not your feelings, just the cold hard facts. Judges will usually admit hard evidence if you keep good documentation.)

Look, even if this ass does take you to court, all the court can do is tell you to pay it. Then they will look at your payment options and make you set up something.

Actually, since there was never any sort of written contract between us maybe I shouldn't even commit to any particular amount per month in this letter. Maybe I should word it all the same as above but instead say something like I will send you money whenever I'm able to
Since your finances are not great right now, I probably wouldn't commit to a set amount. Don't give him anything he can hold over you. If you are going to pay it back, then send what you can (even if just $20) and let him know you will continue payments whenever possible, and you want no further contact from him. I like your idea of a certified letter also to prove he received it. Since he is using the money as a blackmail tool, I would probably get it paid off as soon as possible, but make sure you always have proof of what you sent him. And if he makes a threat to you or you are scared, go for that restraining order. But again, start documenting every bit of contact with this creep.

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