"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

wantreallove posted 12/5/2013 09:07 AM

So things have been going very well. I know where he is pretty much at all times and it doesn't appear that he has been deleting messages on the computer or his phone.

All that to say that I am really struggling with something. He has a friend that is a girl. It started out as a classmate and she was struggling with her faith and her marriage and he thought that maybe her and I would hit it off as friends. We've gotten together as families and as couples.

But I get so scared because her and him are getting closer and closer as friends, and her and I are nothing more then acquaintances. When I finally told him how I felt he asked me if I wanted him to quit being friends with her. I know it's my codependency but my answer is I don't know.

I used to believe that a wife and a husband could have friends of the opposite gender and it was perfectly ok because you trusted each other. I have read all of his texts with her and I guess I am just jealous. I have never been huge into music, quoting lyrics or bands, but that is a big thing he enjoys. And she is also into this. So now I see them exchanging lyrics and bands and he called her his beastie. The morning after I told him I was uncomfortable he texted her "good morning beautiful

Am I just blind? I know what advice people will offer but I guess I want to hear it anyway. What does recovering from infidelity look like long term? Is he never allowed to have friendships of the opposite gender ever again? Am I being controlling if I ask him to stop being friends with her? Am I holding the past over his head? I am so confused about all this. Part of me is even mad that he would put himself in a situation that even smells of infidelity.

confused615 posted 12/5/2013 09:12 AM

He has had EIGHT AP's??

You are perfectly within your rights to tell him NO female friends. None.

There is no way I would be comfortable with this.

She was struggling with her marriage..and talking to him about it? Inappropriate. That is how most EA's start.

He called her beautiful?

Im sorry..but I think this is another AP.

Tell him to go NC..now. It is not an overreaction. It has nothing to do with hanging his past over his head. It is about you dealing with reality..and the fact that he has very poor boundaries..and is calling another woman beautiful and talking to her about her personal life. It is about you protecting yourself.

((((wantreallove)))

steadfast1973 posted 12/5/2013 09:22 AM

My wh called someone beautiful on the phone, that was my first red flag. I ignored it, not wanting to come off as "the jealous type". I AM the jealous type. At least, I am now. He has no female friends anymore, other than acquaintances, or friends of mine, and the M. Because all of his female "best friends" turned out to be EAPs. ALL of them. All of them.

The fact that he sent that to her AFTER you told him it made you uncomfortable is disrespectful.

Bikingguy posted 12/5/2013 09:34 AM

Sorry to say this, but if he had 8 AP, then I think it needs to change to 9, as he is having a EA with her.

Opposite friends is something WS do not get to have anymore. MY MC agreed with this also. WW mention in MC once that a co worker asked her to lunch and MC said you don't get to do that anymore. WW response was "he is M". I almost fell of the couch laughing. My response (in my head) was "SO WERE YOU WHEN F#%#ED OM FOR 15 YEARS!!!!!!!!). Sometimes WS thinking is way off.

If he is not willing to end it with her (he sounds like a KISA), then he is not willing to do the hard work to help you heal and attempt to rebuilt trust. It takes 2 to R, is he really working at it?

atsenaotie posted 12/5/2013 09:43 AM

wantreallove,

What has he done to demonstrate a sustained change in his boundaries and behaviors? What does is SA IC say about him having female friends that he counsels on her faith and marriage and shares a hobby/interest with?

The morning after I told him I was uncomfortable he texted her "good morning beautiful

What does this say about where his boundaries are?

What you detail in your post is a huge red flag for me that he still does not get it, that he still thinks and acts as a wayward.

My FWW no longer has male friends. This started as a boundary I set after dday, but now it is her decision. She will not meet with a male alone for work or service club business. My FWW has put a lot of effort into fixing her issues. She knows that looking to OM for affirmation, flirting for attention is wrong and a slippery slope. This is why she just refuses to put herself in a position of potentially slipping. She does not want to risk anyone (men) interpreting her meeting with them as an opportunity. She knows all too well how “innocent” the initial meetings and flirting is, and how quickly for her it can get out of control. She is different than me, I can and have had female friends. I can flirt and I can still see the boundary.

I would say it is not safe for your WH to be sharing intimacies about faith and someone else’s marriage problems with an OW. It is not safe for him to have an activity/hobby partner he spends time and energy with outside of his relationship with you. With his history he needs to find activities and interests that will reinforce his relationship with you.

He is not allowed to have friendships with women until he has sustained (years) his healing and work on his SA and other issues. I suspect that once he reaches that point he will not need or want friendships with women outside of his M.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:45 AM, December 5th (Thursday)]

wantreallove posted 12/5/2013 09:53 AM

I'm glad so many are replying so fast. I need this support. I haven't been able to attend meetings as of late because I've been so busy with the kids activities. As far as his C...when we lost insurance we both stopped with C. Now we have insurance again but we haven't started again. I guess it's time.

sigh.

I just don't know when he would go. They just announced 7 day weeks at his work and his paychecks have been nice but he works late most nights. (I check to make sure the hours add up to when he says he's working late) and the C he was seeing got mad and charged him a fee for a session he couldn't make because he had to work late and didn't cancel before 24 hours. Ugh. I HATE THIS!!! I just want to be a normal family that doesn't need all this C crap. Anyway I'm rambling. Sorry.

AFrayedKnot posted 12/5/2013 10:10 AM

good morning beautiful

I dont think he would text this to a male "bestie". I think a bug part of boundaries is removing gender from personal relationships. You are the woman in his life. Others are just friends and they should be interacted with as friends whether they are male or female.

Kelany posted 12/5/2013 10:46 AM

No, no, no!!! He can NOT be "friends" with women!!! Unacceptable!!

Have you read Not "Just Friends" by Shirley Glass? If not? READ IT! It talks about this very much.

Now, having said that...Him saying "Good morning Beautiful" is so far over the line. He's in another EA. He's taking time away from you and giving it to her by having personal conversations. He's playing KISA because she's "struggling" with her marriage and faith. He should NOT be the one she goes to and he KNOWS this and he's banking on the fact that she's relying on him.

Sweetie, gently, things are NOT going very well.

[This message edited by SamanthaBaker at 10:46 AM, December 5th (Thursday)]

myeverafter posted 12/5/2013 11:06 AM

No way and no how does this sound good.

For me it was a double betrayal. OW was married and a coworker of fWH. OW was probably my best friend in town. Now, it felt like he kept pushing OW and MOW's BS towards me and our family.

As of right now, no female friends at all. It is going to take me a LONG time to even have a relationship with another couple.

wantreallove posted 12/5/2013 11:13 AM

I guess I knew it wasn't going as well as it seemed. I guess because I knew he wasn't out with her that it would be ok. Maybe because she knew he had had the affairs it would be ok. Maybe if I just stuck my head in the sand and pretended it would be ok it would. We haven't done things in any sort of conventional way but he seemed to be giving me his all. And most of the time I feel very loved, supported and as if we are healing well. But now this is popping up and it just bothers me and upsets me. I woke up the other night and couldn't stop thinking about it and starting to get scared. I don't want to go back to the way it was before. That was the first time in a really long time that I shook and cried and cried. My crying woke him and I just said I had a dream he was doing it again. He snuggled me and did everything a good WS should. And we talked about her and he said he doesn't know why he is drawn to friendships with women, maybe he was always closer with his mom. (his dad has always been distant) He also asked at what point am I going to give up on him because this is too hard. He seems so genuine when he talks about this stuff. I want to believe him and mostly I do.

Kelany posted 12/5/2013 13:04 PM

Two things pop out at me with your last post.

1. Do you think perhaps the reason she enjoys talking to your husband is because she DOES KNOW he's had affairs and knows he's an easy target? Just because someone knows a spouse is a cheater, doesn't mean that they will respect boundaries by any means. It may give them even more of a green light.

2. He doesn't know why he makes friends with women easier? Well, he needs to find the hell out why, pronto. Him being closer to his mom is an excuse. Any justification he gives is an excuse.

There is NO reason he should be friends with women, period. At all. None. Zero.

The reason your upset is because your gut is SCREAMING. It is screaming for a reason.

He is a very manipulative man, you want to believe him because he knows what to say. You are being gas lighted.

wert posted 12/5/2013 13:13 PM

what would you do?

I consider myself in R. I am pro M. I think people can work this stuff more often than not.

That all said, what would I do?

I would 180. I would speak to a L. I would get everything down on paper and figure out if I could make a run of it without my S. I would then have the papers for D drawn up, get alternative living arrangement made and leave my S emotionally until said S pulled their head from there behind.

My FWW no longer has male friends.

Bingo. Mine either, at least not any that I am not close friends with as well and they don't ever spend time together without me. Period. People who lie, people who cheat are not to be trusted until they have facilitated real change in there personality, methods of coping and actual behavior. This in not anger speaking...it just is.

take care...but beware...

Holly-Isis posted 12/5/2013 13:35 PM

I know counseling is expensive. And we all have only 24 hours in a day.

How much is heartbreak worth? A D? How busy will you be as two single parents?

Make it a priority. Find any and all resources. Support groups, counseling through the church if you're so inclined. I see your WH has a username...does he post honestly on the WS forum. Keep searching until you find something that works.

Because right now, your WH is in another A. A remorseful FWS doesn't do this. They don't fight to keep a "friend" when it hurts their BS. They don't give terms of endearment to "friends".

wantreallove posted 12/5/2013 13:37 PM

It is very obvious from what everyone has posted here that I need to speak to WH tonight and say that I need him to put the boundary in place of no friendship or otherwise with this girl. He has said if I wanted him to he would do this. We shall see if he really will or if he will try to manipulate me again into being unsure. I am glad I posted on here today.

Pentup posted 12/5/2013 13:53 PM

Just in case he tries to justify. No. Just no. My h works in a female dominated industry. No outside contact including lunches with any females. It was a choice he made. He could be the fun guy friend or he could be my h. They became mutually exclusive when he crossed the line.

We have couple friends and I have female friends. But no, just no. Good Luck.

karmahappens posted 12/5/2013 13:57 PM

He is having an EA with his bestie

You know where he is physically, but it appears his mind and heart are not where his body is.

Holly-Isis posted 12/5/2013 15:08 PM

What makes me sad for you is he should be setting these boundaries. He should be guarding your heart and his so well he stops as soon as he sees something that looks like it could be the edge of a slippery slope.

He's making this into a parent/child dynamic where you make the choices and he may obey but it could also become a vehicle for resentment (and rebellion given the dynamic).

Pentup posted 12/5/2013 15:17 PM

That is why you have to set your own boundaries of what is and is not acceptable to you. He then has a choice, I did not say my h could not choose to have female friends. I said, I choose to have a h that does not have female friends. If that was important to him, then by all means, he should. I would then choose to not be married to someone that put friendships with the opposite sex above my feelings about the subject. You have to be willing to know what your line in the sand is and defend it. It is not easy, but once you know in your heart, this is unacceptable, I can not feel safe and loving with someone who does x, y or z, it is a lot easier to hold your ground.

The book Boundaries in Marriage is also very helpful.

Camille87 posted 12/5/2013 16:48 PM

You told him you were uncomfortable with this woman and within hours he texts her and calls her "beautiful?" Wow! I'd say he spoke volumes about his regard for your feelings. He is definitely not showing you the respect you deserve as a wife.

He obviously has problems with boundaries and doesn't know how a married man should behave when it comes to other females besides his wife.

If he hasn't addressed his issues in counseling he will continue to have affairs. He's going to continue to break your heart.

TimeToManUp posted 12/5/2013 17:04 PM

"good morning beautiful

I didn't want to even read any responses before I responded...

As a WS who had a pretty strong emotional component to my A and most surely texted this exact phrase... Abso-fucking-lutely NOT! There is no way that is OK. It's not a opposite sex friends issue, that is a blatant boundary issue. No two ways about it. Would you text another man with "Good morning handsome?" Don't think so. At the very least he is on a very slippery slope, but some would probably say he's already take a few steps into EA-land. Time for a serious reality check.

ETA: Didn't read your tag line... 8 AP's? Yep... Likely #9. So sorry...

[This message edited by TimeToManUp at 5:09 PM, December 5th (Thursday)]