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Finally had dinner with that friend who worked with XWS and OW for several months after DDay. We were with colleagues, but had a great time together and it went really well. I was happy to have her back, in a sense. I've missed her friendship and she has been patient and loyal as I pull myself together in order for us to be friends again.

While waiting for the valet, we talked about "it" briefly. Quick background: XWS hired her on my say so because I had worked with her at another location and knew she was wonderful. He didn't want to hire her, but I also had a job there and wanted her as a colleague and he relented. I ended up quitting because of his A before she ever got out there. She worked there for about three months, then quit, too, and is now unemployed.

So waiting for the valet I just said to her "I'm so sorry I got you mixed up in all of that. I hope it wasn't awful." She said it wasn't awful, but she's glad she left. I said "I don't know what happened exactly, and I don't know what's true in anything he told me in the last year, but I know he was transferred to X."

Her eyes opened wide and she said "Ooooooh yes." I said "i know he didn't want that. It doesn't look to me like things worked out for him." She said "I'm happy to tell you as much or as little as you want but, um, no. Things were pretty messed up. But I think removing him from Y was best for everyone involved." I said "I know Coworker X pretty much hated him." She remarked that that was definitely the case. I told her that I think something more went on between them than I know, but it makes sense to me now that he may have tried to make her another OW and she wasn't receptive and that brought about the downfall. She said she doesn't know for sure, but basically that that was her suspicion, too.

The cars came and we went our separate ways. We made tentative plans for coffee and gossip.

I feel strangely empowered knowing that things were not all roses out there after I left, that the jobs weren't as fabulous as they seemed, that she ended up hating the place. I feel validated for some reason, even though it has nothing to do with me, really.

I also am invigorated by the possibility of finding out the truth about the extent to which he really betrayed me. It is a little like TT-- but I'm not going to get it from anywhere else!

It's sounding more and more to me like he hit on his direct supervisor and was either rejected or the A went sour quickly. He told me she was crazy, hated him and was incompetent. Maybe she just had boundaries. He eventually ended up with DCOW, who sounded like a pretty pathetic case. In the meantime, I think he alienated everyone around him and ended up transferred.

So all of those late night conversations where he debated with me transferring to that other department for more money and more prestige-- it sounds like the opposite. Maybe he knew the writing was on the wall for him to get in trouble for all of his philandering and was trying to spackle the situation for my benefit to soften the blow of coming out there and learning that he was a schmuck and not the second coming.

It will be interesting if we ever get that coffee...

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 1:17 AM, December 7th (Saturday)]

Seems like you got some much needed answers to help put those puzzle pieces together...I'm glad for you and hope I too can have that one day. P.S. You have the right to be a little smug knowing others were on to his lies.

It will be interesting if we ever get that coffee...

Gently, NC means no info or gossip about him either.

Sure it is tempting because you might finally fill in some blanks. I did a bit of it myself in the early days and I found that it created a whole bunch of new blanks I didn't want nor need - but worse than that, it set back my healing enormously. My rock bottom last October was kicked off by a tidbit of info. Interesting for a moment and it did verify what I suspected but then the length and breadth of the deceit just overwhelmed me.

IMHO this kind of thing is like playing Russian Roulette with your emotions, your progress, your healing.

Curiosity killed the cat.

You need to work hard to break your give-a-fuck. Fake it till you make it. My pride stopped me asking questions and sheer stubbornness helped me tell people to STFU when they mentioned him or anything about him. This was all well before my give-a-fuck was broken. I, like you, was just DYING to know.

There is a point where this stuff becomes an act of self harm.

Please know this is not a judgement - I've been there.

You're giving him free real estate in your mind, and for what?

What are you looking for? Will you believe me if I tell you that even if you do find it it won't give you what you think it will?

It takes time and effort/practice to get to a point where your happiness is not tied to his his happiness/unhappiness.

I love a good funny karma story but I prefer to get them accidentally or have them fall through the cracks. I will not seek them out.

I just had a visual of myself stifled under a mass of big novelty question marks made out of sponge. I can still see through the cracks. Breaking NC is like heaping a bunch of barb-wired question marks made of lead on top.

That's a big fucking Stop Sign for me right there.

I'll close with Skan's tagline which has always moved me:

Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

[This message edited by SBB at 8:18 AM, December 7th (Saturday)]

It's interesting you should say that, SBB.

I talked to my folks this morning about how it went and told them what I wrote here. Suddenly I found myself engaged in a "maybe it was this, maybe it was that" conversation and I realized, I don't want this.

So I don't know that I want to have that coffee now.

I've perfected NC, but I haven't perfected completely letting that anchor go. I think that needs to be my focus.

I can tell this probably isn't good for me based on the thoughts I had on the drive home. I kept thinking to myself how I would love to break NC to just tell him in one line "I know everything you did." Or something to that effect.

So you're right that it kicks up too much emotional dust...

I can tell this probably isn't good for me based on the thoughts I had on the drive home. I kept thinking to myself how I would love to break NC to just tell him in one line "I know everything you did." Or something to that effect.

Exactly. Like Pandora's Box.

You're learning the lesson far faster than I did. You'll never be sure that you know everything he did. What you do know is more than enough to warrant never speaking to that fucker again. That got me through the intense 'need to know' phase.

Well I don't know... I don't seek out info on the Dooosh ever, but once in awhile someone will contact me and "fill me in" on the shitstorm that is his life. People that he thinks are his friends, and with no agenda other than relaying information.

I don't care one way or the other.. Hear the news or not. I'm not about to shut them down, though. One day it might be something I need to know. Somedays it gives me a good laugh to hear how much he has effed it all up.

Besides, it is nice to hear when karma rolls in, or when things go a certain way for him.