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Help with conscience: sorry long post

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stupidBS posted 12/7/2013 14:27 PM

My username says it all. Lot of the same stuff that many BS’s have dealt with so I’ll try to keep my situation brief:
Met the wife-to-be in college, dated about 4 months during which time she vacillated between me and the guy she was pretty much engaged to when we met, then she finally settled on me. 6 months later we were saying “I do.” She seemed to nearly change overnight. Mostly subtle, but I always got the nagging feeling she’d rather be somewhere else. We could barely contain ourselves before the wedding, but then during the honeymoon I felt like she was kind of somewhere else (mentally/emotionally). I chalked it up to my own insecurities (only had one serious relationship before her). Time went on, 3 years in we had had our first child. During this time there were warning signs I should have caught (of her unresolved personal/childhood issues, of personality/character flaws). It was at about this time she told me she had been very unhappy for about a year. Of course whose fault was it? You know. I promised to do better blah blah. Fast forward several more years, relationships struggles along the way. Relationship always seemed horribly imbalanced. She was the cat and I was the labrador if you know what I mean. She was very aloof emotionally and sexually, I always seemed to be chasing her for approval/affection. During these years it seemed I never could achieve her expectations. Spent most of the time thinking I just wasn’t good enough. About ten years in we had been through some serious hardships (very premature baby w long hospitalization, lost our home due to finances going south, etc). We ended up living for a year (house-sitting) in the home of a family friend who was out of the country. It was midway through that that I discovered in her journal she had a love interest. I wrote a long letter to her (no doubt while she was with him) about how I know about our difficulties, I’ve been tempted to look elsewhere but never did for this and that reason, and gave her lots of reasons to stick with me. It worked (so I thought). She didn’t reveal anything and I didn’t ask, I was still weak and stupid. A few months later she very magnanimously and “lovingly” told me that she didn’t want to marry me, but she followed through because she didn’t want to devastate me. She just thought I should know (lots of little power plays like this). I devoted my self to being “good nuff”. We muddled through the next few months in which time I was able to get us into another house (a rather nice one for us). Shortly after we moved in she sent me an email at work that she was in love with someone else. Not an apology, more like “now fix it, this is your fault anyway.” She refused NC and threatened depression and hate if I made her. I should have known then what to do, but still to weak and a stupidBS. Continued struggling through all this. She did some audacious things (eg: I called to see when she’d be home from work, she was at the OP house, on his couch, reaming him for a girlfriend he didn’t tell her about.). Later on, we were out on our anniversary date, and she texts him how much she misses his touch, and he tells her good nite and calls her by his last name (found these msgs actually a couple years after it happened). We reconciled and split and reconciled and split (split means she quit). I relocated our family w/ new jobs and all within a year after DDay, her still trying to hang on to contact (he was a workplace affair). BTW, she never would divulge the extent of the affair. She accused me of wrong motives in asking and I didn’t need to know, just fix it (ie: quit being a crappy husband). This was a source of contention and frustration multiple times. I went to MC, she refused. I went to another MC, she refused (but of course thought it was good that I was going). She let me know at some point that she had cut off contact. I found out a few months later that she had continued contact. Around the 3rd anniversary of the initial DDay, she let me know that she wanted an amicable separation. Its just not working, etc. Took the kids on a minication that we had planned but she didn’t want to go. Found out later on that she had planned to go see OP while we were out of town, but her friends talked her out of it. During this time and the next few months, she had been in contact with him via cell calls/txts to the tune of several hundred to almost 1500x per month. I still have that documentation. When I revealed this to her, she got pissed and changed password on the account and would not let me have access. She NEVER was remorseful, and NEVER became transparent. Still hiding things. After this reveal I asked again about the extent of the relationship. She still refused. She said they had kissed and that’s all she would tell. I continued to press and she said “we didn’t have intercourse.” (Bill Clinton deja vu). I was so interested in saving the marriage for the kids that I accepted it and tried to move on. Still no transparency. Still acting like I’m the problem. Still a stupidBS. Note this is happening 3 years after the A started. Several months and MORE solo MC later, pseudoreconciliations and all, she tells me she wants a divorce (again, very amicable and such). A few months after this (we’re basically cohabitating at this point) she goes to a wedding in the town where OP lives. Gets stranded at his house cuz the truck won’t start. Gleefully (laughing at the irony) she told me the next morning (she got in after midnight), and I had to go pick it up from OP house (grrrrrr!!!!!!). She actually asked if OP should come out and help. I said not if you don’t want somebody going to jail or the hospital. Still cohabitating, months later she tells me she cut of all contact and removed his info from her phone. But it wasn’t for me, she did it for her. BTW, it was during this time she subtly began her parental alienation campaign of monopolizing the kids’ love and time while I was slaving at two jobs. Turned my oldest daughter (we were "best friends", but me still dad) against me to the point she now says she hates me. She is emotionally manipulative and really the bully of the household. (though she claims otherwise). A couple months into NC, we “reconciled” again, the best she could do is she was sorry it all happened. Still no real remorse, still no transparency. 1 year and ~10 months later, as I have continued to struggle with the unresolvedness of it all, and of the terrible state of my relationship with my oldest daughter, WS and I had an argument that ended in her taking of her ring AGAIN and quitting (that’s her MO and style of manipulation). That was 7 months ago. 3 months ago her salary doubled and she pulls her direct deposit from our joint account and only gave me what she was making before to help pay bills while she kept the rest for “emergencies and such.” (yes we argued about this multiple times).

The past three years to say the least have been an emotional hell for me. I have not gotten resolution or trust because she refused to own her crap and help me heal. I thought I was just being a jerk and selfish till I found SI. Now I understand.

HERE IS MY DILEMMA: My faith only allows me to divorce for the cause of sexual immorality, while the kissing pisses me off, it does not qualify. My gut says there’s more. As I’ve been putting the pressure on for her to stop being rebellious and do the right thing, she has now said she wants me out of the house etc. This has fast-tracked me coming to terms with the option of divorce for the above reason. BUT I have no proof. Only common sense SCREAMING that there is more, she’s LYING and I can’t trust anything she says, AND I CHECKED HER PHONE THE OTHER DAY AND SHE STILL HAS HIS CELL# UNDER A PSEUDONAME!!! MORE LIES!. At this point I am personally trying to “prove” the infidelity so it is not a problem in my church community. I have plenty for the court I believe. I called OP he said pretty much what WS said but that was after he said they were just friends, I let slip I know they kissed, he said that was as far as it went. MY GUT TELLS ME SHE’S LYING ABOUT THE EXTENT OF THE A, BUT THIS LACK OF “PROOF” is nagging at me.

WS has promised that on MONDAY she is going to file for divorce and do whatever it takes to get an order to have me put out of the house.


BS’s and WS’s please comment!! (sorry, so much for “brief”)

[This message edited by stupidBS at 2:50 PM, December 7th (Saturday)]

stupidBS posted 12/7/2013 14:32 PM

Also: I highly suspect that WS is at least borderline NPD. Her father was/is a classic case of NPD all the way (and a cheater himself, her mother has indicated WS is a lot like him).

If/when i file, i plan to have her evaluated as part of the court proceedings, esp since she plans to allege that i'm an unfit father/husband.

Getting to Happy posted 12/7/2013 15:04 PM

Hey SBS, welcome here. Your in good company.

Your not stupid. Just a loving husband looking for fidelity and love from the one who promised to love and cherish til' death...we know all about it!


A few months later she very magnanimously and “lovingly” told me that she didn’t want to marry me, but she followed through because she didn’t want to devastate me.

What a bitch.

Cheaters lie.

She said they had kissed and that’s all she would tell. I continued to press and she said “we didn’t have intercourse.”

That's bullshit! And you know it.



She is not your wife, not your friend, hell she is the enemy. She does not give a two shits about you. Treat her as such. Protect yourself!!

No holds barred, let her rip! It is quite alright to use stealth and covertness to achieve your goal of self preservation.

And please have a look the forums: Divorce and Separation. The good folks down there have great ideas and experience. The will help you navigate this labyrinth of divorce with aplomb and self respect.

Take care my dear SBS. We are listening and we care.

Skan posted 12/7/2013 16:42 PM

You've just been told by your WW that she is going to file for divorce, kick you out of the house, and essentially take you for everything that you have.

Heck YES, you need to file first and ask for custody, child support, sole use of the house, etc. If you can find any lawyer open today, you should go immediately!

This is now war. It's scorched earth war. Start fighting, hard.

Dare2Trust posted 12/7/2013 22:41 PM

You are NOT stupid...You are a betrayed husband; and I assure you: This long-term affair is a physical, sexual affair.
PLEASE seek professional, legal help ASAP!

I'm sincerely sorry this woman has manipulated your daughter - that's an absolute shame.

jjct posted 12/7/2013 22:50 PM

Yep. Take the morning off & file.
DO NOT tell her.
It will warn her to prepare for damage control - and further manipulation and abuse of you.

Minimize potential damage. File. Be quiet about it.
fucj her. really.
You deserve better.

stupidBS posted 12/7/2013 23:26 PM

Thanks for reading my long story, and for the input jj, skan, gth, d2t. I'm between a rock and a hard place tryna give my church leaders time to do their thing and still protect myself and my kids from WW's destructive behaviors.

I'm strongly tempted to get her in a meeting (if i can) with our church leaders and confront her on her lies, and see if i can't get a confession out of her. (ie: "Did you get rid of his number 2 years ago like you said you did? Lie #1 here it is from your phone last week. i talked to him too, so now is your chance to come clean on everything. What did you do with him, what did you say to him, etc.). Don't know if it would even work, but it's the only way i can see to get "proof" or at least some semblance of truth.

Or it may just be a waste of my time and energy.

jjct posted 12/7/2013 23:43 PM

I was right where you are, planning and executing elaborate schemes to out her publicly wrt her lies.
I completely understand. You are not alone brother.

You can't fix her though. A group of gnarly churchmen looking down upon her with approbation can't fix her. No thing you can arrange to be done can fix her.

She has to fix herself. That's the simple truth.

Let me ask you something. What if you cheated? What would you not do to make it right? To fix it?
I believe you'd leave no stone unturned.
That's what she needs to do.

If she doesn't, and is not willing - if she's not remorseful, then the 180 is your best friend!

This is not your fault. What she chose to do had nothing to do with you. Close your ears to anything that remotely sounds like that.

(the kissing qualifies - even the thought qualifies - stop making excuses for her by holding your understanding as a shield for reality).


Getting to Happy posted 12/8/2013 00:28 AM

Or it may just be a waste of my time and energy.

Yes...and a bag of chips!

If you want to do that go ahead. But file ASAP. Beat her to the punch. Scorched earth baby!

She looks and smells just like your wife but she is a pod person...she is in a position to hurt you...for life...really bad.

Preemptive is best. Strategy ...General Tsao and get the idea. PROTECT!

If she comes out of her limerance fog then you have options, but if not you will have your exit strategy in place.

Stay focused because it's GAME ON!

Clarity and strength to you SBS.

cantgetup posted 12/8/2013 09:30 AM

Yes take the day off to file. Let her thnk your going to work normal routine. Assume the worst and act on it accordingly. If you have to back off at some point, fine but for now be selfish and think only of yourself and your children. You know she will manipulate to get what she needs. Don't let your guard down and don't take your eye off the ball. What a rough road ahead if you. So sorry you are dealing with such a mess, but this ship has sailed I think. You're on the right track.

doggiediva posted 12/8/2013 10:25 AM

Ohhh, definitely take the day off and file...If you live in a no fault state it might not matter who files first,but try your best to get better proof..

Hell no don't let her kick you out of the house..You may have to get and wear a var so that you can prove that you aren't being obnoxious to live with and that you aren't being abusive..This is where it will come in handy if you file first, you can get exclusive use of the house, especially since your WW seems to be okay financially and you have evidence of infidelity on her part..

I think it is unconscionable that your WW turned one of your kiddos against you...

If for no other reason than this it might be worth it to hire a private detective and try to get picture proof of her kissing the OM or her texts to him..

I have tons of hard copy proof of my WH's shenanigans..I have been told that it will not help me in D court... Due to the disgusting nature of my proof, I keep it..I may have to enlighten my grown kids about the true character of my WH should he decide to do what your WW is doing with your daughter..

Please do file immediately..and if I were you I would follow the divorce through to its finality.. Don't let her manipulate you into putting a divorce on hold...If your WW pulls her head out of her butt years down the line, R'ing the relationship may be possible if you are still available and willing, but keep yourself protected( i.e. don't remarry her).

I agree with a previous poster..At the moment, unless you take legal measures to protect yourself, your WW is in a position to hurt you for life..

Wishing you strength...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 10:33 AM, December 8th (Sunday)]

stupidBS posted 12/27/2013 08:52 AM

I really do appreciate all the advice and encouragement given here (though you won't think it based on my actions!). I had to let some things play out. I took a chance and didn't file on her. She turned out to be bluffing (at least not as anxious to file as she pretended, honestly i think at this point it has been a manipulation strategy). So Monday rolled around (the day she said she'd file) and nothing. She was gone all afternoon/evening and it turned out to be some ladies from church met with her to talk about the situation. They were baffled by her. Anyway, the week went by uneventfully, though she was behaving suspiciously. I found on the computer over the weekend she was making preparations to rent a house. Yep, you guessed it, the following Monday (12/16) while i was at work, she kept my oldest two children home from school and moved out. I came home to a virtually empty house. 90% of everything gone, and a mess at that. She wouldn't tell me where they were and no one would respond to msgs. Next day I meet with my lawyer and get the paperwork rolling and discuss my options. While waiting on the lawyer i texted my son and he responded (he was at school), and seemed to be fine except i dragged out of him there were some things bothering him. I chose to wait until we could talk in person. Couple days later i called a realtor friend of mine to give me a list of addresses leased out the prior week in our town, that afternoon i found the house. The stupid woman had her favorite decorations outside the front door, otherwise i never would have known. She didn't expect to be found (clever and manipulative, but not necessarily smart, or maybe she just doesn't think anyone else is). I knocked and no answer. I drove a few houses down to some friends of ours, and then i get a phone call from her spouting her craziness (I had already told her she would not be getting back in the house, she insisted so she could finish pillaging, no way). I finally just hung up. Next thing i know I get a blast of txt msgs from my son and oldest daughter telling me how horrible i am and they don't want to see me until i get my act together and treat their mother right. They had LOTS of knowledge about our "disagreements" that they shouldn't have had. Looks like WW has been pulling parental alienation tactics overtime.

So my oldest two kids hate me for no real reason other than my WW lies and fantasies, and I didn't get to see them for Thanksgiving or Christmas (she said they were out of town Eve and didn't tell me they were back until Thursday morn, turns out they were home all day Christmas day ) Just another way for her to make me look like a slacker jerk bringing by their gifts a day late.

On the bright side, she keeps making herself look horrible for the future judge, and she should be getting served today.

I indicated on previous post that i thought she was borderline NPD (i know, I'm no psychologist). But seriously after researching further I'm convinced she has Borderline Personality Disorder (at least mildly), and I suffer from it (if you know what i mean). BPD's also tend to be a little narcissistic, hence the previous hunch. Anyway, lesson learned... don't marry a BPD.

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