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hobbeskat posted 12/8/2013 20:10 PM

I'm sliding backwards and my WS, who had been great, now seems exasperated and annoyed with me.

I feel like I don't matter. For our 1st wedding annversary, I wanted him to write me a letter. He didn't and 3 months later, he still hasn't despite me asking repeatedly. We ended MC as we were doing well. I asked him to register with the doctor as he was depressed during his A and said he was feeling low again. He hasn't, still, months later, despite reminders.

He also has a female acquaintance who I know cheated on her BF and who I do not trust. I also don't trust him. I've told him I am uncomfortable with her and he defended her. I don't like her as she reminds me strongly of the OW in her over-friendliness. I saw they had been talking in PMs on Facebook and I told him I do not want him to speak privately with her again. Though he's complied with this, when I told him he was annoyed and said there was no point in him going out that evening as he had planned because I am angry at him. I wasn't angry at him, it was hard for me to tell him how I was feeling and I felt like I was being punished for it.

All this is making me feel more insecure and alone and I am on the verge of giving up. I tried to explain to him how I was feeling tonight over email (he's at work) and he just told me a) we can't move into a bigger house while I feel this way as he's not paying rent for a room (kid's) we can't use and b) we need to have a serious conversation.

[This message edited by hobbeskat at 8:49 PM, December 8th (Sunday)]

LA44 posted 12/8/2013 20:40 PM

This is a really difficult time. There is joy and celebration all around and a lot of excited people out there. You are feeling the opposite ((hobbeskat)) and who can blame you?

What kind of letter do you want if you don't mind me asking? Guess it doesn't matter. The fact is, he knows you want something and he didn't do it.

He knows he needs to see the Dr. and hasn't done it.

He knows you do not want him getting friendly with the opposite sex and he has.

To add insult to injury he played the passive aggressive card - I wanted to go out but can't now bc you are too mad at me. boo hoo hoo

Maybe you need to stop asking/reminding him to do all of these things and focus on taking care of yourself. With or without him, its your well- being that is at stake.

Doing "just enough" is not going to cut it at this point in your young marriage.

And, you do matter. Keep posting here. SI members will come through for you.


hobbeskat posted 12/8/2013 21:12 PM

Thank you, I think that's what I need to do. He only seems to loe me when I'm happy and when I'm not, I feel like he punishes me.

I got really upset a few weeks ago about Valentine's Day. It used to be special but this year, he was in the A and I didn't know and had told me he didn't love me anymore, and he left me the day afterwards. It was our first married one. I can't bear to even acknowledge it next year and I'm glad he's working on it. I don't want to do anything for it. I know he feels bad about it, but I feel worse. I haven't managed to pull myself out of that funk since. It didn't help that he had to go to work (he works nights- 7 nights on, 7 nights off) and I was sat crying alone.

And I have to be really honest here. A part of why I am staying is because I desperately want children. I am 28 and the thought of starting a new relationship (with who?!) and starting again, that I may not even have children if I do that, terrifies me. And I know he'd be a brilliant father, even though he's not a great husband sometimes.

[This message edited by hobbeskat at 7:44 AM, December 9th (Monday)]

soconfusednow posted 12/8/2013 22:39 PM

For our 1st wedding annversary, I wanted him to write me a letter. He didn't and 3 months later, he still hasn't despite me asking repeatedly
I also asked my WH to give me a letter or card for our anniversary and was extremely disappointed when he didn't. Asked a couple times after that, nothing. Then I wrote him a letter telling him how important it was to me & why. My letter told him what I did & didn't want from him to include in his letter to me. (ie. no lies or sugarcoating, how he felt about me, if he was committed to our relationship etc...) I wrote that anything was better than nothing. Then I left it alone the ball was in his court. I refused to beg for it. A couple weeks later he surprised me with a letter.

And I have to be really honest here. A large part of why I am staying is because I desperately want children
If that's the only reason you're staying what kind of a life will that be for the kids?

TheAmazingWondertwin posted 12/9/2013 05:49 AM

I am so sorry.
What I am going to say is all being said with the best intentions. It is also only my opinion based on my experiences- and I am still a newbie here (4.5 months) so take it for what it's worth.

Ask yourself- why are you staying? To have children? If that's you answer, I respectfully ask that you start to 180- or get set to completely walk.

Your WH, from the description above, is not making your needs a priority. He is passive aggressively switching blame to you for his unhappiness and not taking responsibility for yours.
I am shocked that he so casually discusses PMing with another woman after the specific issues you have had (not understanding or respecting boundaries about opposite sex friendships).
IMO- I know that you are hurtin right now- I know that you want children and feel you never may if you leave and find someone else.
I have two very dear friends who did the same thing. Excused questionable and disrespectful behavior in order to have children. These two woman had been cheated on and disrespected for the entirety of their marriages- they are miserable and just trying to hang on.
Do you know why they can't leave? Because of the kids. Your option to 180 or walk once the baby is born becomes much much much less feasible.

BABIES DO NOT SOLVE PROBLEMS- having a baby AMPLIFIES the problems that already exist.
You do not want that. Most importantly, believe me as a mother when I say that the guilt you will feel for bringing the baby into a situation like this will be unbearable- or should be at least. Once a baby is in the picture, it is no longer about you and him and your problems. Now, all of your problems belong to that innocent baby.

Right now- your WS does not get it. He is doing just enough to keep you hanging on because he probably knows he has the power, so to speak. That coupled with him not following through on your requests and engaging in inappropriate online relationships after knowing what you are comfortable with? RED FLAG RED FLAG RED FLAG. And then makes you feel stupid for worrying?!?!?!? I am sorry but I am angry for you!

I hope you find the strength to realize that you and your future children are worth SOOOOO much more than this.
I am not saying to leave him. I am saying figure out what you need in a relationship in order to feel safe and secure and loved- whatever that is- and let him know what it is. If he cannot provide that for you willingly and with enthusiasm, then he does not deserve your love - or a part in the lives of your future children.

From what you say above- he does not understand the gravity of hat he's done or how he has hurt you. He is doing "just enough" AND making you feel guilty for MAKING him do it. I see no respect or compassion there, and so early on in the M?
He hasn't earned the right to father your child, IMHO.

I wish you strength and peace of mind. I hope that you can find you inner bitch and start to realize that you are worth it.

RockyMtn posted 12/9/2013 06:58 AM

I think it is great that you're being honest with yourself about children. Good first step. Some people are in denial about their real reasons for staying married.

And I know he'd be a brilliant father, even though he's not a great husband.

But this isn't true. On the surface, maybe. But kids know what's up. If dad is treating mom like shit, they know. They disapprove. They won't bond with him if they see that because he's untrustworthy. And they may end up mirroring his behavior as adults - which is the opposite of good parenting (teaching kids to treat others poorly).

heartbrokeninaz posted 12/9/2013 07:00 AM

I agree Wondertwin! Babies make a situation like this worse. You have plenty of time to have a child. I didn't have mine until I was 34.

Althea posted 12/9/2013 08:13 AM

I agree with RockyMtn here.

And I know he'd be a brilliant father, even though he's not a great husband sometimes.
He won't. He hasn't done the work post Dday to save your marriage. He is passive/aggressive. Without doing the hard work, you are bringing kids into a really messed up family dynamic, one that is likely to repeat itself with them. Many WS's lack emotional intimacy, and this absolutely plays out in their parenting. Their relationship with their children will be as superficial as the relationship with the BS because of their inability to truly connect.

spinning73 posted 12/9/2013 08:30 AM

hobbeskat…28 ..your a spring chicken! You have plenty of time to have kids with someone who loves and respects you. Kids will NOT make things easier.

His complaining about not going out was passive aggressive, but threatening not to get the bigger house is just down right mean..he knows the bigger house= starting family and he is using it as a power play IMO.

180 for you. Concentrate on you and he will figure it out or not. Either way, you will be stronger and ready to decide what is best for you.

hobbeskat posted 12/9/2013 09:58 AM

I'm not sure how to start the 180- he's being very sweet today, making me coffee and stuff. I am not going to be the one to ask for this, "serious conversation" though- if he wants to have it, he can ask me. And I do worry it'll end in him leaving me. Which isn't fair, it should be me who leaves. I know he's irritated with me and with this. But I have practically begged him to do what I need.

[This message edited by hobbeskat at 10:08 AM, December 9th (Monday)]

TheAmazingWondertwin posted 12/9/2013 10:47 AM

I say this with all of the caring and love and concern that I have....

I am not going to be the one to ask for this, "serious conversation" though- if he wants to have it, he can ask me.


Of course he's fine with the way things are. You don't want to rock the boat and he gets to act however he wants.

He will not bring it up and when you do he will make you feel like a POS for "making a big deal out of it."

If you want him to change his behavior- you need to change yours.
The 180 is NOT FOR HIM. It is for you.
Please, if you can...just ask for advice on the 180 or even starting the 180 though process.

You are way too concerned with how he is feeling. I sense that you are not asking/getting what you need out of this because you make yourself feel bad if you upset him at all.

I really really really strongly and with so very much passion encourage you to just read about the 180 in the Healing Library.

You have all the reasons you need for the 180.
You are unhappy because he is not giving you what you need. my opinion, he is playing you by using your emotions.
Of course he made you coffee, thats not hard to do. And what a bitch you would be if he is being "all sweet and stuff" and you got all serious.

The 180 is not a declaration or an ultimatum.
It is a way to make yourself stronger. He can react or not, thats up to him.

The 180 is about YOU.

I am sending all of my good thoughts for strength and resolve to you right now.

I know this is hard and you don't have to do anything today, or tomorrow or ever...all I am asking is that you seriously think about your situation AS A WHOLE and not just based on little moments here and there.
Maybe re reading your story from your profile page will refresh your memory. I know it helped me whenever I felt myself wavering in a decision.


JanaGreen posted 12/9/2013 13:07 PM

I'm really sorry.

Your post reminds me so much of how things were going in my marriage after the ONS, which he DID confess and regret hugely. As long as I smiled and was happy, everything was great.

This female FB friend, we had one of those too. Amy from college. It bothered me that he was talking to her. So what did he do? Continued talking to her.

And no, nothing ever happened with Amy specifically (wish I could say that nothing else ever happened ever, but at least not with HER), but it was a symptom of the disease of him doing what he wanted with zero regard for my feelings.

After D-Day 1 it just felt like things were always wrong, uncertain, uneasy, and he expected me to act like everything was great and trust him blindly. And the baby thing - he dangled that in front of me like a carrot. Yes, we already had a child, but he cheated on me initially right before the time that we had agreed to start TTC #2. The emotional blackmail - hobbeskat it just sounds so familiar.

I definitely agree that you should look at the 180 and decide what you will and won't put up with in a relationship. I'm not saying leave him, or that your marriage is dead - mine was in the grave in 2012 and now is pretty damn good in my opinion - but what you're living in now is not a partnership. He's not respecting you or your boundaries.

[This message edited by JanaGreen at 1:08 PM, December 9th (Monday)]

sisoon posted 12/9/2013 13:24 PM

1) I don't see how he can be a good father, unless he stops cheating, and he's clearly on a slippery slope now, if not worse.

2) 28 is still young. I have some understanding of the biological urge to be a mom - the bond between my DIL and GS is wonderful to behold - but you're not doing a child or yourself any favor having a kid with a cheating partner.


I'm not sure how to start the 180- he's being very sweet today

Gently, what he does is irrelevant to whether or not you do a 180. He owes you a consistent good partnership - consistent. If you let yourself be swayed by day to day changes in his behavior, you are putting yourself in great emotional danger, at least.

The fact that you are swayed by his variable 'sweetness' says to me that you really need the 180, to get back in touch with your own strengths and sense of worth. You're worthwhile, no matter how he acts. You. Are. Worthwhile. No. Matter. How. He. Acts.

The Hobbes I remember wouldn't put up with his crap....

4) He's going backwards, reverting to A behavior. You're not.

5) Have you read anything on co-dependence? Are you in IC? One or both may help you a lot.

JanaGreen posted 12/9/2013 13:33 PM

If you let yourself be swayed by day to day changes in his behavior, you are putting yourself in great emotional danger, at least.

YES! and

He's going backwards, reverting to A behavior. You're not.


LA44 posted 12/9/2013 13:53 PM

((Hobbeskat)), you remind me of my sister when you sayings like, "you are not going to bring up a serious convo". Why not? This is your life too isn't it? My sister forever makes excuses why she won't "bother" her sig other. She holds out her own needs time and again. It's been going on for..... 16 long years! So he makes you coffee and is sweet today. Wow. Like Sisoon said, you need "consistent" behavior.

Do NOT stay in this relationship bc you want children and feel you are too old. You are a YOUNG woman! I had my FIRST at the age of 36 and my second two years later. Why would you even want to have children with someone who could be brilliant with the kids and...not so much, with you? You deserve and can get the full package. But (gently) you clearly need to work on your self esteem at this point.

There is a book called, Co-Dependant No More by Melodie Beattie. I believe you would benefit by looking into it and/or IC.

Take care of YOU.

TennisTC posted 12/9/2013 13:57 PM

Another wise SIer (sorry I'm not sure who to give credit to) said that the least you settle for now is the most you can expect in the future.

I would spend a lot of time contemplating whether you want to spend 50 plus years in a marriage where the issues are swept under the rug and not addressed, your WH is constantly pushing if not ignoring boundaries, dismisses your feelings, ignores your needs, and emotionally withdraws or even retaliates when you say something he doesn't like.

You deserve better! You are too young to settle for this. Figure out what you need and want in this relationship. Once you decide that you will not settle for less hopefully your WH will step up his game so he doesn't lose such a wonderful woman. But if not then he doesn't deserve you. (((Hugs)))

Truly posted 12/9/2013 15:20 PM

I do worry it´ll end up him leaving me

Some, far wiser, SIer has said on many occasions that this is NOT the worse thing that can happen.

Far worse is that they stay, make no changes, continue to lie, cheat, feel entitled. While you sit at home feeling abused and unloved.

You cannot R with someone who is unremorseful. It´s about actions...

You cannot nice someone back, they have to want YOU. The PRIZE.

So, abandon asking him to do stuff either for you, or him. And instead do stuff for you. Without him. Get back to your happy place with people and activities that make you feel good. It´s called the 180 - and detach.


D - don´t
E - even
T - think
A - about
C - changing
H - him

You´re the prize, you´re the prize, you´re the prize.
If he wants to win YOU he has to own his shit, make the changes, walk the walk...actions, actions, actions
Be prepared to lose this marriage to enable a better one to emerge from its ashes.

I´m sorry if this comes across as harsh it is not meant to, I can empathise only too well...

movingbackwards posted 12/9/2013 16:01 PM

Haven't been on the forum in a while... Dealing with a somewhat similar situation to yours, from what I can gather, which is what prompted my return.

My WH gets uncomfortable/irritated when anything is brought up or when I am upset, even though it's only about 4 months out from d-day. This is a big part of what's prompting me to consider D when for the past 4 months we (or at least I...) have been working hard at R. I'm starting to do some reading on 180 and it seems like a good process, I want to move on from this - with or without him, that's yet to be determined.

I've been told by many to cut my losses and run, being so young and without kids. Starting to seem like the most viable option.

Hugs to you.

hobbeskat posted 12/10/2013 05:45 AM

How do I do the 180 without feeling like a total asshole? He's being sweet and loving and I'm not being responsive but I feel horrible!

TheAmazingWondertwin posted 12/10/2013 07:48 AM

He betrayed you.
And scoffed at your pain.
He thinks he is better than you- he has to If he thinks its okay to lie to you and humiliate you with your friends.

How can you NOT be angry after how he's treated you?
That's the question you need to ask.

Do you want a script? I might try something like this-

"Gee mr. Hobbeskat- it's so great that you are making me coffee and being so kind and loving. It's too Bad that the pain you have caused me is too great for your small actions to erase. I don't mind you being nice, but I am working on healing myself honestly. You do not take that seriously, it's obvious to me. And if you do not take my pain seriously, then you are only going to cause me greater pain."

When he asks what he can do- tell him to figure it out. You are fixing you and that's enough for you at this point.

Please teach yourself that him being upset IS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. Him leavin is NOT THE WORST THING THAT CAN HAPPEN.

Better yet- you were being nice and sweet and lovig when he betrayed you, right? And yet he still did it.
So if he is being nice and sweet and loving, why can't you call him on his bullshit?

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