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How Can I Find Out It's Really Over?

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KittenLittle posted 12/10/2013 10:58 AM

Hi everyone. This is my first post. I am nearly a month past d-day. I discovered my WH was having an affair with his ex-gf, who also happens to be his current coworker. When I caught him, he said he would end it. I believed him. Most of the suspicious activity that led me to believe something was going on in the first place stopped - constant Facebooking and deleting messages, going in to work early, staying late, etc.

Over the past month he has been very affectionate and very kind. He seemed remorseful the first few days but now he's kind of back to the routine. He says he wants me and our marriage but it seems like he's holding something back but I just can't put my finger on it. He is getting sick of my rage fueled outbursts, I don't blame him for that, but he is answering any questions I have, eventually.

Of course I asked for NC but the company is small and he said it may take some time for her to go. I believe that since right now, it's just the two of them in their office and he can't run the operation solo - it will take a little time to replace her. I've been told she is looking for employment elsewhere and is also looking into relocating to the office across the country.

It's been very difficult for me to move forward given this continued work situation between them - especially now that they are alone all day together. To top it all off, late Thursday night, I received some FB messages from the OW's roommate - a woman I have met one time in my life - saying the affair is still going on, they are just real careful, they talk of a future together and maybe I should just hang in there and she will eventually get sick of waiting for him to leave me. I asked why she would tell me this since they are friends and she said she doesn't agree with what is going on and wants to help me - which I am suspicious of. Of course, this sent me into a three day tailspin. Screaming matches and sleepless nights followed. I was told the OW asked the roommate what was up with those messages and the roommate claims to know nothing - my WH said she most likely got hacked by the OW's ex. Ugh! What a nightmare!

Anyway - the night of the messages, I installed some recording software on his phone so I could hear what they were up to at work. Of course, like an idiot yesterday I told him I did that during one of our yelling matches. Now he puts his phone in a desk and I can't hear anything. I feel so dumb.

How do I know for sure this is over? What do I do to keep my sanity until there really is NC, if that really is something that is being worked toward?

Thanks in advance for your help. This forum has been a huge source of information and comfort for this BS who feels like she's about to lose her mind all day everyday.

EvenKeel posted 12/10/2013 11:11 AM

I am sorry you are going through this! Hugs!!!!

Of course, like an idiot yesterday I told him I did that during one of our yelling matches. Now he puts his phone in a desk and I can't hear anything.

This is a flag to me. I am sure you seen the quote "Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing".

If he was concerned about rebuilding your trust; he would let you listen all day long if that is what you needed.

RealityStinks posted 12/10/2013 11:20 AM

I second EvenKeel's comment. If he wasn't trying to hide anything, he would leave the phone where you could hear everything. Please forgive the bluntness of my comments, but this has been my experience. I hope it helps.

My WW also "ended" her contact with the OM beyond what was absolutely necessary for a charity project they working on together. Well, I found out three months later she was going to his house 1-2 a week since she "ended" things. Evidently she borrowed a lot of bowls to make potato salad in!

I made the same mistake you did and told my WW how I got my info. She just changed her habits, but did not end her A.

If your gut says something is up, something is probably up. I learned that one the hard way.

GotPlayed posted 12/10/2013 11:25 AM

Hi KittenLittle, very sorry to find you here, and we're all very sorry to be here, but glad we find each other.

The reality is that you can't find out if it's really over. It's likely not unless it was only about sex. They could have taken it underground. It's not unusual for NC not to "stick" the first or second time.

Do read up on how to do the 180 (on the BS FAQ, Point #11). Start behaving like that. Seems to be working with me.

It's no use, for now, to be on top of him may actually drive him away. It almost happened to me with my WW only Friday with a giant blowup yesterday (see my other posts) and we're only now starting to get some semblance of calm again. She almost left, but didn't only out of fear of the unknown being greater than her fear of me, and my 180-like calmness while she unraveled. She has since calmed down it seems. I'm not afraid if she leaves, but I went too far putting on the pressure because I wasn't following the 180 and I was needy as hell. I don't want her to crack either. She's truly at her limit and I need to acknowledge that.

My therapist told me something that applies here. This is a bit similar to an addiction in your teenage kid. What kind of parent are you going to be? The kind of parent that is constantly checking under the mattress and in the closet's corners for "the stuff" and drives your kid underground? Or the kind of parent who brings it up, draws the clear lines, then steps back, makes a note of relapses, quietly, to bring up later during therapy, when that has run its course and everyone is a bit more calm and collected?

Many addicts have to hit bottom before they stop. Stopping them early only makes them want it more.

Then again, worry about yourself, find hobbies, act and be happy. Watch only comedies for a while. Laughing helps the heart. I started watching only comedies and it's really helped my peace of mind (avoid comedians that only dwell into sex and dating though - I had to switch one off as the jokes were wholly inappropriate given my situation). :-)

GotPlayed posted 12/10/2013 11:27 AM

Forgot to mention, you only will know it stuck once he starts volunteering all openness. He knows you'll need it to heal. If he doesn't, then he's not committed.

Jules1111 posted 12/10/2013 11:52 AM

I believed my WH when he said his EA with my "friend" was over. He would show me messages he received from her on his phone (regarding the sports board they were on). I believed him. Though his attitude toward me had changed. Phone records showed nothing. However, OWBS came to me with text proof that the affair was still going on and had turned to PA. Apparently they went "underground" by communicating via text app that does not show up on the phone records. I felt like an idiot. But all of what you said makes me believe there is still something going on. I'm very sorry. I hope I am wrong. But you are in a great place for support. I'm sure some veteran members will be along shortly with some great advice. Take care.

KittenLittle posted 12/10/2013 11:57 AM

Thank you all for your responses! It helps so much to know I am not alone in this colossal struggle.

Yeah, GotPlayed, I have read about the 180 and I need to start that - going crazy over his every move and acting so needy isn't really working out for me.

And we know something about addiction in our house as WH is nearly three years sober. It took almost dying for him to stop drinking - so I guess he is into the really big rock bottoms...

Thanks again - I'm going to try your suggestion for the comedies too while I get my own sh*t together and wait to see if he's committed to this marriage.

heartbrokeninaz posted 12/10/2013 12:37 PM

What kind of app does that? I thought they all showed up on your phone record?

cl131716 posted 12/10/2013 14:06 PM

I had that fear as well since WH also worked with the OW. Luckily the worked in different towns but I know for a fact they spoke on the phone. I forever believed they had some other sort of communication as well. WH showed me complete transparency. If she meant NOTHING as he claimed then why did actual NC take forever? It would infuriate me every time she sent an e-mail and his dumb butt actually responded. I couldn't understand that and honestly I think the fact he couldn't maintain NC for months after D-day hurt me more than the actual inappropriate messages. Why was it so hard to let go??? Why did he put her feelings above mine? I know if I was in his shoes and got caught I would not speak to the OM ever again except for business related.

He wrote a final NC letter more than 3 months after D-day. Her response made it extremely apparent that either she was completely delusional or he was still very much friendly with her and he was still hiding it. I'm going with the latter which would explain her comment about his "sudden change in attitude".

Is there any way your WS can find another job? I can't imagine how difficult it would be knowing they are alone together and there would be no paper trail of contact. Can you put a VAR in the office? I'm with the others who said if he was serious about R he would leave his phone out so you could hear everything.

Edited: Not sure what happened there but my words got all jumbled up.

[This message edited by cl131716 at 2:11 PM, December 10th (Tuesday)]

Jules1111 posted 12/10/2013 14:58 PM

I do not remember the name but it started with a K. It did not show up on my phone records. He knew I looked often and even encouraged me to look so he could 'show' me they weren't talking. I only found out about it Bc OBS found the app on OW phone and was able to retrieve text messages while she slept. He forwarded them to me after coming to talk to me.

hopefulmother posted 12/10/2013 15:07 PM have the proof.

Someone told you it was still going on. Regardless of who it was.

He is still hiding the phone in the desk. If there is nothing going on...then why hide it?

He still chose her. He didn't leave his job or her for you.

He is with her all day. What does he have to hide for?

Leave him.

Hire a PI to watch his work behavior. You will find nothing at home. He is alone with her all day. If he is pissed at your outbursts...he is still doing it and acting guilty/deflective.

It isn't going to end if they are alone together all day.

confused615 posted 12/10/2013 15:12 PM

He hid his phone from you? That's more than a red flag..that's guilt.

If he wants to R he must:

Be fully get full access to all of his accounts and his phone..passwords included.

He answers all of your questions without anger or blaming you..for as long as you need to ask them. Which could be years.

He gets his ass into IC to figure out why he did this.

He goes NC. Is he the boss? he needs to fire her. If he isn't the boss, report her to the boss and maybe she will be fired.

Does she have a husband? He needs to be told.

He gets tested for all STD' too.

No friends that are not friends of the marriage.

he owns this..all of this. He chose to cheat. Nothing you did or didnt do made him cheat.

It takes 3-5 years to heal from this shit..and that is with a remorseful WS working their ass off to fix their issues.

As for the OW's roommate..she is telling you the truth. Im sorry but there is no reason for her to lie..she did it because she doesn't approve and thought you needed to know. He says OW's facebook was hacked? He is lying.

Can you show up at the office unexpected? Try to do that.

Find your bitch boots. Put them on. If it were me, I would tell him if OW is still there by the end of this week..or the end of the year..then he needs to find another job..or he needs to leave.

As long as they work together,especially with it being the two of them alone all day..the affair will not be over. You will never know. He needs to find another job..right away..if she doesn't leave.

ascian posted 12/10/2013 15:19 PM

I do not remember the name but it started with a K.

Probably Kik Messenger. It's one of the common text/SMS replacements.

Sorry you find yourself among us, KittenLittle.

Jules1111 posted 12/10/2013 16:20 PM

Yes. That was it

Razor posted 12/10/2013 16:34 PM

I dont like time requirements or expectations as far as how long it takes to *get over it*. It takes as long as it takes. Your WS can make it go quicker by being completely truthful about EVERYTHING. having remorse. and doing lots of work on himself to correct the problems he have that made it ok for him to cheat.

How do you really know its over? The best indicator I know of is the WS:
willingly on their own being transparent with everything.
truthfulness in all things.
working hard at winning you back.
working hard on themself.
genuine sorrow over what they did.
disgust with themself and the OW.

Also. Until you get the WHOLE and ENTIRE truth about the affair and everything is out in the open. The affair is still going on in my view.

njgal480 posted 12/10/2013 16:39 PM

Listen to what the roommate is telling you.
It could be the roommate giving you a heads up or it could be the OW hoping to force your WH to choose.
But it certainly sounds like it is still going on.

painfulpast posted 12/10/2013 17:12 PM

Sorry you're here Kittenlittle.

First, the roommate told you the truth. Why would she lie? And really, how pathetic is the story that the roommate was hacked by her ex? And they all know the affair is over and this was just a good lie? Come on - you know better.

Second, you may want to tell your oh-so-impatient husband that getting over infidelity takes 2 to 5 years, not a month. He's out of his mind if he thinks you should be done being upset, hurt, insecure, untrusting, etc. Truly, out of his mind.

Third, as others have said, he wouldn't be acting angry and annoyed if he had nothing to hide. His behavior alone is a give-away. I'd let him know that your marriage starts over when he leaves that job, or she does. He cannot go sit with OW all day, alone, for an indefinite period of time and think you aren't going to be bothered by it. That's insanity.

KittenLittle posted 12/11/2013 00:21 AM

Thanks again for all of your replies. You have all certainly given me quite a bit to think about. I really wish all this shit wasn't going down right before Christmas, it's really ruining the season for me.

Yes, I can show up any time at the office - in fact, WH said I could do that any time I'd like. I guess that is a good sign but really, we both know the odds of me finding them in a compromising position are not that great at any given time. I'm pretty sure they confined their "activities" to very early morning and toward the end of the day so I guess I could show up then. I even offered to set up shop and work there with them. I work remotely so I can do it anywhere. That suggestion went over like a lead balloon. Yeah - probably unreasonable on my part - plus I really don't want to insert myself in that awkward of a situation - the three of us for eight straight hours.

And she has a STBXWH. She left him about a week after my WH and she started their thing. She told me (before I knew about the A) that it was a long time coming and she finally had the financial independence to do it. Yeah right! But this guy cheated on her for the entirety of their 16 year marriage with hookers, in Mexico! Apparently she knew the whole time, in fact a few years back said she accepted it, and just recently decided enough was enough. Lots of dysfunction to go around with this bunch.

Exarmychick posted 12/11/2013 00:42 AM

I find if they are hiding they are lying. You just have to decide if it is worth trying to fight for or walk away. I am fighting myself for my marriage. I hope you get your answers.

glaciergal posted 12/11/2013 01:08 AM

For the person in AZ who asked about apps that circumvent phone bills, another one is What's App. It still bothers me that my ex would laugh at me for questioning phone calls on our bill (literally laugh), and then a few days later I read all their messages on What's App. It was so shocking to read the hundreds of "good morning" and "good night" messages all at once. She was a friend of mine and said "I don't think you understand the nature of our friendship." That's how confident she was that the app was safe. It might have been safe, former friend / OW, if my husband were not so head-over-heels for you that he saved every message. What's App kindly provides this service for you -- and she even told him to delete it!

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