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Newest Member: AdriftSailor (46058)

User Topic: Need opinions..please
brokensmile322
♀ 35758
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, December 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

and if I deserve a 2x4…well then give me one.


My WH recently started a new job/position. It is very exciting as everything is being built from the ground up. The infrastructure has to be created and the people hired etc… As a result, there is a lot of team building going on. I know I don't work, but team building, to me, is code word for socializing…and many times 'meetings' are really happy hours masquerading as business meetings. From an outsiders prospective it is very frustrating to be the wife at home holding it all together while kids are sick, the dog has diarrhea and the 10 ft decorated xmas tree hits the floor.

Most times I can cope. My WH doesn't get my frustration and frankly, a little bit of compassion would be all that I am asking.

Here is my point... in the name of team building, an event has been scheduled that is on my bucket list. I am angry and hurt. Bucket list items I would really love to do with him…and really only him…or my kids. I don't think this event is on his bucket list…it is just a really neat thing to do.

Am I crazy for being hurt that this is just another thing he and his 'team' get to do? I hate feeling this way but really, I am building up a steady stream of resentment. And I am not even sure what I expect him to do. Not going would look weird and, of course, not 'teamy' I guess.

I guess this is just an example of how I think we think differently. My first thought would have been that I would have wanted to experience it with him. He doesn't think that way about me.

Why do companies do this shit? Why not just do your job? No wonder there is so much infidelity…I really think it is a breeding ground for bad behavior.

[This message edited by brokensmile322 at 5:13 PM, December 12th (Thursday)]


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1613 | Registered: Jun 2012
blakesteele
♂ 38044
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, December 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((brokensmile322)))

Gently....it sounds as if you have "adultery creep" going on. It happens to me too....happened a bit last night to me too. I see you are aware of this at some level so you can stop this...I am trying my best to refrain from rolling everything back to my wifes adultery.

So express your feelings to Mr. Brokensmile322...maybe you two can figure out a work-around....maybe you can do the bucket list item first? Come up with another one to replace this? Agree that doing it as a marital team is a unique experience and his doing it first without you should not tarnish your experience when you do it together?

Having said all of that. I work with 61 other employees. There are 6 known affairs within my work force...only one is currently being nurtured that I know about....of course it has to be MY supervisor engaged in this. So I totally agree with your concerns about todays team-building environment being a threat to a M.

But only a threat to a M without proper boundaries. My wife would not have had an affair had she had proper boundaries. Why didn't she? Over-confidence in her independent strengths (I am strong, no need for boundaries)..and FOO habits (feelings and needs....who needs those weakness's, they just get you hurt...I don't have them, and when I do, I pretend they don't exist).

Your husbands confidence is NOT at that level anymore. I follow your posts...you are part of my original brat-pack. I see how he was not aware of his weakness, his lack of boundaries either. To be sure....I supported my wifes false sense of independent strength too. But your husband is really aware NOW. He has changed.

Back to my work environment. I look at the women engaged in affairs....looking to attain power, using their influence to gain advantage in the work force. I look at the men engaged in affairs....looking to have fun with a younger attractive woman, looking to break the boredom they associate with long-term marriages, mid-life crisis ages). This is the END product...that is what I see. I did not witness them enter the slippery slope. I like to think none of them where intentionally trying to kill their M or hurt their spouse....they simply let boundaries shift or lacked boundaries all together. One exception was a man who prided himself as some sort of "bull"....way beyond help, but he is the exception, not the rule.

Again....your husband is NOT in any of these categories anymore.

As I journey through this mess I have come to know the term "work spouse". My wife and her AP where "SAH spouses"...both took their respective children to school and picked them up, nurturing their affair in between these daily tasks. I once thought men and women interacting, either in the work force or exercise partners or...., really didn't take any more attention then an all women or all men setting. I gave into societys view that we are equal and that meant guys and girls can just hang out as if they were the SAME. I have boundaries due to my attraction to the female body...appreciate most all women so I had in place "rules of engagement" that greatly reduced "opportunity". But to listen to modern company trainings, such boundaries are NOT needed. If I were a "modern man" I could almost spend the night in the same motel room as a female co-worker and have no temptation at all. Its as if it is assumed that men have evolved past temptation...so we don't need boundaries.

NOTE: Perhaps, at 42, I am entering the antiquated male category in the work force...maybe I am cave-man like and a twenty something year old male CAN be this "modern man"?


We have equality trainings...we are all equal...this is the mantra preached. It does a disservice to us all. Men and women ARE different. We view infidelity different (motivations behind choosing it and what they desire from it), we view the world differently, we solve problems and interact with others differently.

My experience is, in these trainings....equal = same = interchangeability. But we are not machines...we are dynamic creatures built differently.

Instead of preaching equality we would be better served to preach how differences make us a better team. I intentionally seek women co-workers inputs at times because of this difference...and some times they give a solution, or at least tweak the solution, that is the best for the problem at hand. So I very much value women in the work force.

But how much can we change society? Wasted effort in my opinion.

Our efforts are better spent on controlling that which we can....ourselves.

At the end of the day a fWS has proven without a shadow of a doubt how UNCONTROL of themselves they can be. It leaves the BS in the spot you find yourself in today, and I found myself in last night. It leaves us viewing a fairly docile, normal, every day event such as a work training day or a work out partner switch as a direct assault on our marriages.

That is our perspective now.

We would do good to remind ourselves that, just like our perspectives have changed for the worse that a truly fWS have changed their perspectives for the better.

To do this....live in the present.

Fear is payment on a debt we have not incurred and may never incurr!

That helps me achieve balance over my anxiety.

That plus this....

If my wife choses to go in "debt" by having another A or refraining from nurturing our M...I will pay off my part of that note via a D and never have to worry about that "debt stream" from ever being a part of my life again.

Hang in there brokensmile322...you have the courage to face this fear....it might not have got to the surface yet, but it is coming. I feel it.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 5:54 PM, December 12th (Thursday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not yet incurred.

Posts: 4134 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
FeelingSoMuch
♂ 38814
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, December 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blakesteele articulated things well.

At the same time that I get 'suspicious' about WW's work activities, I'm actually happy that she's enjoying positive experiences that involve contact with guys, but are healthy. There's a huge difference between healthy contact with the opposite sex and cheating.

Cheating doesn't come from these activities. My workplace does a lot of them and I didn't cheat. Same for most of my coworkers, yes, most.

Stay strong. Think of other things WH can do to make you feel good.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 509 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
blakesteele
♂ 38044
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, December 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To be sure....those social hours AFTER the core training is done should be limited in nature...your husband should be one of the first to excuse himself.

No matter how much perspective has changed or how strong your boundaries are.....nothing good takes place late at night.

.....since my wifes A I have been tempted to hang out longer than I normally would at these hospitality suites and hotel bar settings.....plenty of opportunity and temptation at these functions.

Just look how many SI members affairs relate back to work force travel and trainings.

No sense in testing how strong you have become....why put yourself in these situations if you can avoid them?

Surely your husband can duck out early without hurting his career.

NOTE: That IS a change I have seen in my 20 year career. Much less alcohol involved at these meetings and trainings and almost NO trips to strip clubs or hiring the cute waitress to come and serve drinks in the hospitality suites. There are still some old-school contractors who think this is a way to get into a company....but they are dying out quickly.

God be with us all.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not yet incurred.

Posts: 4134 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Morhurt
♀ 40166
Member # 40166
Default  Posted: 6:09 PM, December 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm going to address the other issue. You are feeling overworked and under appreciated. Yes he has to attend these events but let's face it, they're fun! You're home cleaning up after the kids etc., not fun.

In my opinion this isn't directly A related but perhaps how you feel about it and how you cope with it are.

I have a similar feeling right now (though admittedly my H isn't doing fun things at work) because our 8 year old just had surgery and I'm with her 24/7. It's so hard and I'm struggling. What I really want is for him to work less and help me more. Not going to happen (understandably, not his fault).

Instead we talk about it. A lot. When I get to tell him how draining it is seeing our baby in pain, or never having a minute to myself or whatever, and he really listens and empathizes and helps me problem solve... That helps. The "old" H didn't do that, the new him does and it makes all the difference.

Talk to him, tell him how you're feeling. Be vulnerable. Ask him to listen and understand. Tell him you don't blame him but that doesn't make it any easier.


Me: BS
Him: FWS
M: 15 years
4 lovely daughters
Working to rebuild.

Posts: 961 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Canada
blakesteele
♂ 38044
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, December 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow!!!! How did I miss what Morhurt caught?!?!?

Guess my bias blinded me to the wisdom she offers.....really like what she posted.

Aaaahhhhh the value of fellowship.

Peace

Morhurt....I will say a specific prayer for you and your little one now. God be with you both.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 7:51 PM, December 12th (Thursday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not yet incurred.

Posts: 4134 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
brokensmile322
♀ 35758
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 6:14 AM, December 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all for your replies….

Blakesteele, thank you for your response.

But to listen to modern company trainings, such boundaries are NOT needed.

We have equality trainings...we are all equal...this is the mantra preached.

My husband has said this as well about all of his trainings. He said that is what is beat into your head. Prior to dday, he said he really approached dealing with women by asking himself if he would do the same thing with a male colleague. If the answer was yes, then he felt it was ok. He said this is, in part, why he made poor decisions about the OW. He didn't realize there could be a slippery slope or that he was even on one. He said once in awhile there would be a weird comment and he would think that was weird, but he would dismiss it and move on because of this ideology. After he was on the slippery slope and there were noted weird comments, he didn't realize that this was now behavior that would not happen with his male counterparts.

You are right. He does say he has changed how he does things now. He says he is fully aware of any slippery slopes now and will never get on one again. Who knows? I think that is the point of a slippery slope….you often don't really know you are on one until it is too late.

My husband is a people pleaser. He is fueled by what people think of him. This is why I think the slippery slope happening again scares me. If he found himself suddenly with a female colleague who was hinting, I am not sure he would be able to back off effectively. I think he would worry what she would think or how she would feel.

^^This is the 'fear' I guess I have on the debt I have not yet incurred. And I do know, this time around, I would leave. I guess I just believe that he will mess up again and I will have to leave. I expect that he will and I am not sure why I feel that way.

Feelings so much,

Thank you for your perspective that not all workers or work related team building is a source of bad behavior. You are right. It does matter what the boundaries are of the people involved. I guess I am not very confident in my WH's boundaries.

Morhurt,

I am so sorry you are caring for a poor child who had surgery. :( I hope it was not serious and will keep you in my prayers today.

YES! You are right. It does seem unfair…. I guess I am getting resentful that I am holding it all together why he is away eating and drinking the finest meals and wine. He is also seeing some of the coolest places in the country, staying at the best hotels, and getting to neat things…including things on MY bucket list. I am angry. They say anger masks another emotion…and I guess sad would be that emotion.

I do mention this to Mr BS322, but I think he doesn't get it. He says he would be happy for me. He says he wouldn't be jealous because he knows what actually goes on at these things. I guess if he was more compassionate about my feelings it would help.

Thank you all again!


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1613 | Registered: Jun 2012
blakesteele
♂ 38044
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, December 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He says he would be happy for me. He says he wouldn't be jealous because he knows what actually goes on at these things.

One of the keys to surviving infidelity is....honesty.

Part of honesty....is abandoning thinking and telling each other how THEY should feel.

Look, I did plenty of this early on. I condemned my wife for her affair, made legal-type of arguments how stupid it was, how irrational it was, how it SHOULD not have happened. It was a normal but horrible thing to do.

The fact is feelings are real. You can't argue a person to feel differently. You can't reason a person to feel differently.

I have MOSTLY given this tactic up in exchange for radical honesty.

Your husband saying how HE would feel if HE were YOU....is ridiculous. HE is invalidating YOUR feelings. Does it ever get you to change your feelings? I would venture a guess that it makes you defensive and urges you to tell HIM how HE should feel.

No net gain is a achieved by this type of exchange. It is a cycle that must be broken...and it can be broken by just one of you. It sucks that this task falls to the BS sometimes, but what doesnt suck about this shit?

Denying feelings is not healthy. ACKNOWLEGING feelings so that you can PROCESS through them is healthy.

Using feelings as your sole motivator behind your actions is not healthy. Combining feelings with logic and making decisions is more healthy. I have found that sometimes using my logic that goes AGAINST my feelings is actually HEALTHY! I still recognize my feelings and accept they are real....but then differ to my logic. RA has been avoided by listening ONLY to my logic. It is more complex than I can explain...because I have two young daughters who generate lots of feelings in me that play into my decision to NOT have a RA....so its not all logic or all feelings. Trying to state something in simple fashion.....a task that has proven difficult for me (thus my long posts).

"The longest journey a man has is the journey between his heart and his mind."

I am convinced that affairs happen to people whose minds and hearts are so far apart that only one is controlling their actions while the other is hidden or tucked away so completely that it can not be a factor.

I guess if he was more compassionate about my feelings it would help.

I believe compassion is lacking in those who look at the party they offended, discredit that parties feelings, and then go on to tell them how they should feel.

I think my wife discredited her OWN feelings for much of her life...from what I have observed of her journey over the past 16 months. I think, many times, she lacked compassion for herself.

Perhaps this is one of those things, like forgiveness and patience, that if you don't have it for yourself you are ill-equipped to offer it to another?

Maybe your husband lacks adequate compassion for himself and his actions?

I am feeling my way through this too....don't profess any of this to be a truth. Just what I am piecing together from prayer, reading, and 12 months of IC that stopped 4 months ago.

We are struggling hard still. But I will tell you if you can both agree to allow the other to express their feelings WITHOUT judging or legal-argument types of discussions (the "yeah, but" type) you will have a healthier go of things.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 8:15 AM, December 13th (Friday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not yet incurred.

Posts: 4134 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
StillGoing
♂ 28571
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, December 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The most important team should be his family. End of argument there. If he is putting his family behind anything else he is failing his team. Work is important but if a man (or woman) has a family they purport to love, then they should be working to support that life, not using that life to support their work.

But how much can we change society? Wasted effort in my opinion.

Our efforts are better spent on controlling that which we can....ourselves.

We change society by changing ourselves. We are all a part of it. Its failures and successes come back to each of us. IMO the problem isn't that we can't change society, it's that we all want it to look like some perfect ideal based on our own values.

I wouldn't spend the night alone in a hotel room with a woman I wasn't married to either (unless my wife was there, or I was turned into a cyborg because I lost the lower half of my body like Darth Maul and then it wouldn't matter because I'd be this enraged lunatic clattering around on robot spider legs using the force to eat bugs and rant about Red Dwarf or something) not just because I don't trust the situation, but because it seems really fucking awkward. Maybe some people can work that through, but the idea that everyone *should* is where the fault is - as well as the idea that it should be recognized that not everyone should have to. We need to speak up and stand at our line, and accept the consequences and responsibilities for that. If it means losing a job, then that may be for the best - because keeping a job that requires consistent personal compromises is an obvious disaster waiting to happen.

eta:

I meant to say "Unless it was my wife back before we were married" not "Unless my wife was there" because that doesn't make sense about the whole Alone thing, unless one of those parties is a non-corporeal entity and that would be kind of creepy when you think about it.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 8:22 AM, December 13th (Friday)]


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7637 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
brokensmile322
♀ 35758
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, December 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you!

But question for you Blakesteele….

If you both have feelings about something, and neither is right or wrong, but you don't agree….does that mean you don't belong together?

Because I am not sure how you navigate things when this is the case.

And how can you get compassion without placing yourself in someone else's shoes and asking "how would I feel?" Isn't that empathy?


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1613 | Registered: Jun 2012
AFrayedKnot
♂ 36622
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, December 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BrokenSmile

I think you are in a very dangerous place. This is not the first time this subject has come up.

You are jealous of your H work life and trapped in self-pity of your own. Jealousy and self-pity are scary places to be. They lead to resentment and entitlement.

Each of our roles in life have their advantages and disadvantages. Many times we feel the grass is greener on the other side. Do you know where the grass is greener? WHERE YOU WATER IT!!!

What are you doing to see your life as fulfilling? What are you doing to make your life fulfilling? What are you grateful for?


BS 40
fWS 37 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2694 | Registered: Aug 2012
SurprisinglyOkay
♀ 36684
Member # 36684
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, December 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From an outsiders prospective it is very frustrating to be the wife at home holding it all together while kids are sick, the dog has diarrhea and the 10 ft decorated xmas tree hits the floor.

I can relate

Staying in hotels, eating out a lot, Flying to the DR or Vegas, having events with beautiful models, while I'm dealing with diapers and cat vomit. He's getting the thing I crave the most... time alone.

But... The reality of our situation is that staying in hotels is boring, eating out alone is fun once or twice, The work events are really not that cool, some are, but the ones I've been to are just ok.

While I get to be home. I get to take my kids to the library and then snuggle up and read, or watch a movie. I get to bake Christmas cookies with the kids while they make a tremendous mess. I get to help with homework, well I try anyway. I get to play with transformers, which are really cool, even at 36

I get to watch these beautiful creatures grow up, everyday.

Yes, I have to deal with the cat who refuses to use his litter box, a howling child who gets constipated and make 15 trips to the bathroom before he has any success. I do dishes until my hands are raw. I am sleep deprived. My hair is a mess. And I have NO idea how we build up so much laundry.
And then there is Caillou, which makes me want to scratch my own eyes out.

It was easy for me to get jealous of what Chicho gets to do.
It was easy for me to get resentful, and stew in self pity, and anger.
And it felt awful. I was miserable, and it was my own doing.
It wound up building resentment towards him and the kids. And myself.


What changed was I became grateful.
I have a beautiful life.
I have amazing kids.
I have a wonderful man who is willing and able to work to support us all, when I know he would trade with me in a second.
I am grateful for my life.
And the cat.

[This message edited by broevil at 9:20 AM, December 13th (Friday)]


FWS me 37 (recovering addict)
BS him 40 AFrayedKnot
Together 7 years
2 children


"Your secrets keep you sick"


Posts: 1155 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: 221B
blakesteele
♂ 38044
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, December 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is when I really desire a real life support group......to let us more quickly work through thoughts.

If you both have feelings about something, and neither is right or wrong, but you don't agree….does that mean you don't belong together?

Society's view of M = agreement

Gods view of M = challenges

We are not meant to marry ourselves....if we did, two becoming one would result in no more accomplishment than those same two living separately. We are meant to marry different than ourselves.

What I am learning is that feelings seldom completely align with your spouse....and that is okay. I do feel when it comes to major decisions must be agreed to before action is taken though . Until that can happen a decision on the topic that you disagree on should not be made.

I am still trying to mature this thought....so bare with me here. The next statements of fact are crude.....but are true. I using this to explain how feelings can and do lie to us....influencing bad decisions and, therefore, should only be used as indicators and not navigators of our life's decisions.


My wife felt good taking her affairs penis in her mouth. My wife's AP felt good having his penis in her mouth. They both felt very good while in each other's presence. They were influenced by these feelings and allowed them to navigate boundaries that enabled adultery to be a choice.

They both wondered if they were meant for each other, they both questioned the validity of there respective marriages. Their feelings lied to them and the decisions based on those lies have had dreadful consequences.

How can I say this so confidently? Two main reasons. First my wife was not her AP first A....and within 6 months of him dumping her he is onto another AP. Think feelings are telling him the same lie again? Second, M failure rates of AP's who D their original spouses to marry each other bump around 90%!!! Feelings many times mislead us if we are not strong enough to really explore them before making decisions that are emotional in nature.

I will add I FEEL like being loved and supported NOW!!! Instantly!!!!

Is that mature? Think if I based my actions on that today that I would be wise? Sex is different for men and women....the physical act of sex illicits a strong feeling of being loved even if foreplay or lead up to sex is absent. The actual act of making love to a woman makes a man feel loved. I could feel this love today with a RA.

We are all need to be loved and to love. But love is more than a feeling....it is a choice.

Pre-A it was easier to choose to love our WS. It is more challenging now.

God designed M to be challenging. God also said adultery is the one sin where D can be sought....though not mandatory.

One question you might ask yourself.

Is the decision I am going to make in any way "abuse" towards the one (or ones ) I have vowed to love and care for?

If yes.....sit on it a bit longer before you decide.


Gently......it is highly likely that one or both of you will decide that this experience was a deal breaker for you.

I really wish this was a live discussion.....I am just now turning my attention to this topic of study....like to have faster engagement on it.

This thought of husband and wife having to feel exactly the same way or at the same intensity is not healthy. What successful team is made up of exactly the same types of players? If a fellow teammate is kicking you....that is abuse and he needs to correct his ACTIONS (even if he FEELS like kicking you still) or get cut from the team.

God is the "coach" of all marriages.

God be with us all,


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not yet incurred.

Posts: 4134 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Rebreather
♀ 30817
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, December 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you both have feelings about something, and neither is right or wrong, but you don't agree….does that mean you don't belong together?

It might, but I don't think it has to.

If you really listen to one another, I think there is almost always a compromise. But it really takes two partners committed to doing what needs done to help the other out. Two people stuck in their own trenches firing at one another will never work.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Rec'd.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6696 | Registered: Jan 2011
blakesteele
♂ 38044
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, December 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My decision to use pornography felt good, my wife voiced no concern and used it with me at times. It was a feeling that I acted on that had destructive consequences.

Mercy on me.....I stumble too. This is where my empathy towards my wife comes from.

No matter how much discussion, no matter how much logic we apply now to the feelings of "then"...the fact that while we were engaged in these destructive actions our "good " feelings were REAL will not change. The justifications and motives behind those reasons were false.....but those feelings were real. As we heal and process through this, the wisdom we gain from it will help us make better choices. We will still stumble....

Compassion is different than empathy......

[This message edited by blakesteele at 12:56 PM, December 13th (Friday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not yet incurred.

Posts: 4134 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
overandone
39162
Member # 39162
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, December 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I totally get where you're coming from, even though my fWH's company never do these sort of 'bonding' sessions.
I wrote on another thread recently that he's just been made head guy at the small, local branch of a bigger company. The main company's Christmas dinner was staff only invite (no spouses) and 2 hours' drive away. So I started getting arsy about it, said it was unfair on families with young kids (there are a couple of workers there in that position, though mine have now flown the nest)to expect the worker to have to travel so far just for some Christmas nosh.
And I also got onto my hobby horse, that I didn't see why they didn't invite spouses along too. After all, as you so rightly pointed out, they can only do their job, if you have a family, if there's someone at home to look after the kids when they're sick, need the doctor, dentist, pick-up from after-school clubs or whatever. And particularly if they're asked to go abroad to work, which my H had to do frequently when the kids were young. It wouldn't hurt to show a little appreciation once a year by inviting us home-carers along for the ride.
Got my way on that one, we had a Christmas meal at our local hotel - as it happens only one other wife could make it,but we all had a great evening. And meeting other co-workers socially also dispels the myth which seems very prevalent that work is work, home is home, and they have nothing to do with each other.
A bit more contact between work and home might also help stop affairs, so many of them (including fWH's start at work. Maybe if everyone else at work knows you personally, they might be more inclined to let on if they suspect inappropriate behaviour is going on.
Don't know if anyone knew when the LTA affair started, but two people, married but not to each other, going for occasional lunchtime walks out of sight of anyone else would ring alarm bells in my head.

[This message edited by overandone at 8:20 AM, December 14th (Saturday)]


Me - BW (54)
Him - fWS (61)
kiddies - daughters 22 and 27,son 22,
d-day - April 18 2012
R - but lots of bumps in the long road

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2013 | From: uk
brokensmile322
♀ 35758
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, December 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Thanks for the responses. Yes, you are right. I am jealous of my WH's job. Who wouldn't love to be away in beautiful locations with nothing but people I view as friends…hanging out, drinking, and closing deals -With no budget to keep in mind…doing activities I might not otherwise afford?

You know, the truth is, my husband wouldn't be able to do what he does if he was not married to me. During his interviewing his new hires, two people…one a woman and one a man both were offered a position with his company by him, but later they declined it. They went through several interviews, were very excited, and were convinced they would take this job in a heartbeat. I will also add that it happens to be the hottest job right now in this field. Lots of people vying for it. Do you know why they passed? They told WH that they could not swing the travel…they were both divorced. The time demands would have been too much on them having to deal with a co-parent on the other end.

Fact is, he needs ME to be able to do this job. Either that or he would barely see his kids. My WH took me for granted before. I thought I was doing my job on my end. I was sad and I was depressed because of how much he traveled, but I thought it was part of the territory.

When his EA happened, he was putting me even farther down on the list. My discovery of the A, was the catalyst. I changed. Through IC, I have come to where I will no longer play second. And I have played second to his job and at times even to his mother. I gave up a lot to afford him the luxury of doing this type of job and what did I get for that? Sure, time with my kids and being able to raise them myself…which I am grateful for...but I also sacrificed a lot too. I gave up my own identity of sorts and he took advantage of his time away to cultivate relationships with other people….without a care for me.

You bet that makes me angry.

Now?…well I am still angry. I am working on it. To be sure, my WH doesn't know what to do with me. I am not the same woman I was pre dday. I am demanding more of him. I want to be first…more than his job,more than his mom, more than anything. He is feeling chaos to be sure as this was not how we operated before. The MC says that I am looking to be 'most special' to my WH. ANd as it turns out, this is a FOO issue for me so probably a magnified need on my part. However, at 43, it is no longer one I am willing to forgo.

What am I doing to water my own grass? I work out, looked into doing a few activities, started running, and joined a few meet ups, but my life is pretty much on hold. I am kinda of stuck because of my WH's job. I'd like to go back to school, but the classes are at night. He is not home to contribute driving so it is impossible. Day classes are not avaialbe as what I am looking at is an advanced degree. Most of those are not offered during the day as they assume advanced degrees are working full time. This is what a few local colleges have told me.

So yes, resentment is building, Chico. I just want appreciation for what I do…and I want to be most special. Period.

The MC says that if I felt most special, likely all of our other issues would disappear. I have no idea anymore.

Work is important but if a man (or woman) has a family they purport to love, then they should be working to support that life, not using that life to support their work.

^^This really struck me. I guess I have always felt that work was first and we were second.


Now we are definitely spending more time together, making efforts to have date nights weekly, but there are still times that work just seems to take precedence.

[This message edited by brokensmile322 at 2:08 PM, December 13th (Friday)]


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1613 | Registered: Jun 2012
StillGoing
♂ 28571
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, December 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

eta:

nm. Don't want to go there. Sorry.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 7:26 PM, December 13th (Friday)]


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7637 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
brokensmile322
♀ 35758
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 10:09 PM, December 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The whole bottom half of my post is gone. I guess I deleted it when I edited.


Anyway, what I wanted to conclude with was to address what broevil said about being grateful for what I do have.

And I am…I know what I am saying sounds really bratty. It is a vent of sorts. My WH never really got how lonely it was/is when he is gone.

Now saying that, his job has afforded me many blessings. I don't have the stress of paying for things looming over my head. The mortgage, the cars, our health benefits etc…I have never had to worry about. He carries that burden. It is a lot of pressure, I know. I also know that traveling gets old. One only has to take one trip and realize that it would get monotonous. I realize there are times that my WH wakes up and he has no idea where he is…and it takes him several minutes to figure out which city he happens to be in.

I know eating alone all the time can be lonely too and the alternative, someone to actually talk to, a colleague-rather than looking around at all the other couples or families while alone- would be a welcomed opportunity. I realize that this isn't always sinister either.

I am grateful that I have been able to stay home and do the fun things with my kids. Take them places, be with them etc… I have been at school events, sports and the like. I am also grateful that since he does travel, he does have some flexibility when he is home during the week, so you will often see us having breakfast together or lunch or running an errand or two in the middle of the day.

Yes. I am grateful. And I have told him so, many times.

What I guess maybe is bothering me is that I am not sure he is grateful for what I do. I believe he took it for granted before. I think he is starting to see, he is starting to see that it can be lonely too, he is starting to but he is not there yet. And there are times that he jumps back into expecting that I do what I do.

Part of the problem is that pre-A, I was doing a lot of things for everyone else. I wasn't really nurturing myself. After dday, I started being selfish. I started thinking about what I want. It isn't a comfortable place for me to be. I am voicing it now. And this 'thing' that he is doing with his team-well I would have stuffed my disappointed about it before. And I didn't this time. It is an uncomfortable feeling for me.

Anyway, I had it worded much better before, but I left to go to dinner. Thank you for your thoughts everyone.

This R stuff is a journey for sure.


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1613 | Registered: Jun 2012
overandone
39162
Member # 39162
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, December 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not sure where you're from brokensmile. When you say you want to do some more studying, but can't because of the hours, have you thought of doing some distance learning? Here in the UK we have the Open University - you can do it part-time, working the hours around your home commitments. Basically you work whenever you want to, so long as you get your assessments in on time the rest is up to you.I started another degree this autumn,not sure what subject I'll finish up with, but loving it all. I'm doing an 'open degree', whereby I can pick from a wide range of subjects instead of specialising straight away. That way I can dip into lots of different areas that interest me, and a degree from the OU is viewed as highly as a degree from any regular university.

After the crushing effects of my fWH's LTA, It's good to do something that boosts my self-esteem, whilst still giving me enough time to continue working self-employed part-time. And it gives me something to focus on, leaving less time to brood on the A, which frankly I'm sick of doing.


Me - BW (54)
Him - fWS (61)
kiddies - daughters 22 and 27,son 22,
d-day - April 18 2012
R - but lots of bumps in the long road

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2013 | From: uk
Topic Posts: 20

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