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RJB3 posted 12/13/2013 15:24 PM

So a few years ago i wasnt the best hubby i could be around the house expecting the wife (who was pregnant) to cook, clean, take care of our 2 yr old girl while i shoot the shit with friends and have a beer every day. Nowadays, i do most of the cooking and a lot of the cleaning. Ironic.

Back then though i caught my wife meeting a coworker at the casino. I used to let her go play poker while id stay home with the our girl. I actually met the guy and his wife prior to this and had a feeling there was an attraction. Anyhow, when i saw the messages about what a great time they had and how they hadnt had that much fun in a really, really long time, i confronted her. She said, oh, he just happened to be there one time, which was a lie becuase the message said, "at least we both won for once!" I saw other messages. They talked about their marital problems and looked foreward to their daily "conversations" at work so theyd be happy no matter what they had to go home to. Things deteriorated because she didnt know how i was checking on her and i saw more conversations (they continued until she figured out how i could see them).

One night we got in a fight about it and she left and said she needed time to think about things. This was right after work. i said, youre not going to see him are ya? She said "hes thelast thing on my mind - i have to figure out which friend im going to stay with tonight" But guess where she went? Casino with him. I drove up there and confronted them. Told him to leave my wife alone, go be with his. Over the course of almost 3 years now, ive confronted them at the casino 3 times and shed been at least 5 times, all mostly within the first 6 months. none within the past year, so that has stopped. What hasnt is the communication. I could see her email, so they stopped doing that. I could see her texts, so they stopped doing that. Basically she told me they hardly talk anymore and this spring i thought things were finally done becasue i didnt see any electronic traffic which seemed to support her claim.

But i started seeing voice mails from him on her work phone in the email system. Multiple per week. Basically he was calling her work phone, and hanging up and not leving a message which genereated an email. Thats what i saw. I became afraid they just shifted their communication to aviod detection. So i bought a miniature microphone.

I asked her how often they talked, and what they talked about. She said, only a couple times a week, work related. Nothing personal (which was my request becuase i new minimal work-related conversations had to happen so i wanted to be realistic about expectations). I put the microphone in her purse and found out they were talking every day. not about work.. laughing, teasing, joking about going to the casino (which again hasnt happened in over a year). So we fight.

Shes pissed because im invading her privacy (she saw the microphone on the computer). We go to a counselor, which she had previously resisted. Counselor said that relationship with him is a threat to your marriage and must end immediately. She agreed to end it next time they talked. So i asked her every day for a week if they talked yet, and the answer was no. days turned in to weeks, which turned in to months, and they "never talked". So i checked her phone again and saw work emails which required some other communication, which was a red flag they were in fact talking again. So i broke out the mic, and sure enough. every day. That was this summer.

She then agreeed to keep it work related. just recently i discover the same thing. Also, each time wed go though one of these cycles, she would lie about when they talked and how often they talked, and what they talked about. She never told the truth about anything. So here i am today.

I havent seen any evidence of anything being physical: back when they were at the casino around 1.5 yrs ago, i watched them get in to his truck and talk for 45 min and they sat far apart and nothing happened - of course she was 8 mo pregnant at that time. Either way, since shs no longer been pregnant, shes only been to the casino once, and i was there to bust it up again.

There hasnt been any declarations of affection at all.

She still talks to him every day and lies about it.

I need some advice. Shes attractive, in HR - 32 yr old. Hes younger, 27 maybe, attractive too, and a project manager (separate dpartments the company)and hes the son of the pre$ident of the company. Hes married and just had a kid 6 mo ago.

Shes not in to attention. Has always been very honest and has a lot of integrity... until this.

Whats going on? She says its harmless. Its teasing, laughing, joking, etc. We used to talk every day, multiple times a day. It got to the point this summer where she wouldnt call me at all. I asked why, and she said she was just busy. Then i hear on the mic that shes stopping by his desk in the morning to say hi, and in the afternoon before she leaves, and sometimes staying a few min late to talk to him, but dopesnt have time to call me? Sure i called her out on it.

What is she getting from that guy that she has to talk to him every day, work with him to find different ways to hide their communication, and lie about everything?

Emotional Affair at least?

EDIT - The pattern i see is that shes willing to risk her marriage to keep that thing going, whatever it is.

[This message edited by RJB3 at 9:32 AM, December 20th (Friday)]

ascian posted 12/13/2013 16:16 PM

That's not something I'd be comfortable with either. To me it would seem to fit into the EA category, particularly since she's continued the relationship even though you've expressed to her how it makes you uncomfortable.

Ostrich80 posted 12/13/2013 17:46 PM

EA I'D say. You've confronted him, her, and found them together. They communicate secretly daily and she refuses to stop. She's not taking you seriously and sounds like she doesn't give a shit how you feel about it. IMO, if not a PA, its around the corner

beenthere2? posted 12/13/2013 22:20 PM

Did you tell his wife any of the times you busted them? I think it is time to bring her in.

A faithful wife does not risk her marrigae time and time again for a "work friend." I have a work friend whom I love dearly (platoniclly) and if H asked me to stop the communication with him I would do it in a heartbeat.

What have you done to show her that you mean business? Has anything changed after you busted her?

mrcpu posted 12/13/2013 23:16 PM

THe bottom line is, if it makes you uncomfortable then it has to stop. period. She clearly doesn't give much of a thought for you or your feelings and if it hasn't happened yet, it WILL become a PA.

You could step it up and reveal everything to his wife.

On the other hand, maybe it's time to put yourself and your kid(s) first and do a 180 on her.

Crushed1 posted 12/13/2013 23:59 PM

I agree with those who said talk to his wife. She may know other things than what you do...

You know for sure that your W is a liar and you can't trust a liar.

What is she getting from that guy that she has to talk to him every day, work with him to find different ways to hide their communication, and lie about everything?

You said "she's not into attention" yet she IS constantly *seeking out his attention* by stopping at his desk to speak to him and they're talking through secret emails.

Shes pissed because im invading her privacy

This is a typical WS response. What she really means is that you have invaded her "secrets".

I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't already been physical between them. All of those casino meetings, working just takes a few minutes alone to know.

Any time a 'friend' takes precedence over a spouse, there is trouble.

nomistakeaboutit posted 12/14/2013 07:12 AM

Personally, I would immediately call this man's wife and say, "I wanted you to know about my concern. I've noticed a lot of hidden communication and meeting up, a growing closeness, etc. I see a slippery slope here and it is making me vey uncomfortable. I wanted you to have the chance to know everything, now. Have you noticed anything or do you have any of these concern?"

Contacting the president (his daddy)of the company would be a pretty cold bucket of water, too.

But, dude, the bottom line is for you and your wife to decide what you're doing. You can't shadow her 24 hours a day. Does she want to be with you, or not? How about you? Are you still treating her better, or are you back to having her do all of the house work and parenting, etc., so it will be easier to keep tabs or her? Can you find a substitute activity to do together, instead of her losing money at the poker tables .

I hope you and she can pull together. I hope can be honest with herself and understand that she IS getting too close to this other man. She really does have to change the nature of her relationship with this man. Otherwise, you can see it will continue to poison your M.

Good luck.

[This message edited by nomistakeaboutit at 7:14 AM, December 14th (Saturday)]

RJB3 posted 12/14/2013 09:06 AM

Thanks you all for the responses.

Yes I did try to inform his wife when it first started when she was meeting him at the casino and wouldn't stop (that period lasted about 4-5 mo). I looked her up on FB and sent her a few messages, the first not being accusatory, saying I just found out our spouses had been hanging out together and I didn't know about it.... Is this something you're ok with?

Never gotta response. Sent another highlighting the communication and lies. Nothing. So I gave up on her. Either she's in denial or he got to the messages first.

I've packed upland left several times, mostly as a result of the casino trips back when they were happening, but it never seems to last more than a few days as we seem to come back together when I see the kids.

Of those times only once did she beg me to stay. Others she acted indifferent.

When I've left it's been tough on the kids so she says dont leave again unless its for good because it too hard on the kids. shes a fantastic mother and I believe firmly she wouldn't let me come back even if she misses me because its hard on them.

Part of me wonders if they don't have a plan to eventually be together someday. He just had a kid. We just had a kid. Wouldn't make sense to wreck two families with kids right now, and maybe she feels like she's doing our kids a favor by remaining married to me in the mean time.

The advice you've all provided is great. I do feel like she doesn't give a shit about me to keep doing this.

So how do I draw the line with her, what is reasonable, and how to I make sure it's being followed,? I've tried like crazy to show the disturbing pattern of deceptive behavior makes a friendship with him not an option.

Ita also worth pointing out that things with them have de-escalated over the past year from what I can tell in that they don't see each other outside of work, and she doesn't talk to him seek to get consolation from him like was happening n the beginning. Everything I've heard is laughing, joking, teasing, how are you doing... Doesn't mean those other things aren't happening, it's just when they were I saw evidence. I asked her to stop that stuff and it appears she did.

What's troubling though is it still continues on a nearly daily basis even when one of them isn't in the office. To me that's indicative of an attachment. She denies an attachment and says its harmless. .

I need to find the most effective way to get through to her but put my foot down which gives this the best chance while taking the high road.

Appreciate your input.

[This message edited by RJB3 at 10:01 AM, December 14th (Saturday)]

TennisTC posted 12/14/2013 11:20 AM

I would recommend reading "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. It gave me so much perspective regarding my WH's EA with a co-worker. If your wife is willing to read it too, that's even better (my WH did and found it very helpful), but if not read it by yourself.

Unfortunately, your WW is putting her relationship with this coworker before her relationship with you. FWIW, I believe your wife is in an EA. And affair partners can never just go back to be friends once they have crossed that line.

I'm so sorry that you find yourself here, but hope that you find the support and advice you need.

pewpewpew posted 12/14/2013 12:30 PM

Oh wow. Our stories are so similar - minus the casino.

You need to put the gloves on. This will not end until you give her serious consequences.
There's a saying around here: you must be willing to end the M to save it. If that is what you hope to do.

My WH would NOT end his 'friendship' with the OW. They went through great obstacles to further deceive me to keep communication.

Finally, after he purchased his burn phone, I think it really set in how deep his A had become.
I had had enough. I outed them to everyone. Friends, family, their employers, her BS (which sadly he didn't believe me or care). I did many things I am not proud of and sometimes wish so many people didn't know - but it was the only way I knew how to get through to him.

EAs are tricky. My WH still claims there was no PA, nor any feelings or sexual talk. This can be hard because my WH insisted for a long time that he didn't 'cheat'. He thought it wasn't an A because there was no sex.
And they hurt like hell - as you know.

You cannot nice your wife back. Or out of her A.
Until she ends ALL communication and wants to put 100% into repairing your M, I'm afraid things won't change.

She will find other means to communicate with OM. And possibly take the EA to a PA level.

RJB3 posted 12/14/2013 14:41 PM

Is there any chance this is truly harmless?

The attempts to hide and lie indicate it isn't, but that's my only argument. That and the fact that she hasn't ended it.

So when we talk tonight, that's the only justification I have to counter her "it's harmless" claim.

Any advice on how I approach this conversation?

[This message edited by RJB3 at 2:41 PM, December 14th (Saturday)]

sisoon posted 12/14/2013 15:43 PM

It's hidden. It's covered up with lies. She hasn't met her commitment to end it.

Any one of these facts says it's an unhealthy relationship. All 3 together? It's past unhealthy.

If your W doesn't get that, she needs to read NOT "Just friends".

If she doesn't end it, your best bet may be the 180 (Healing Library - BS FAQs).

Sorry you have to deal with this.

pewpewpew posted 12/14/2013 15:54 PM

No of course it isn't. It's causing a tremendous strain on your M and it makes you uncomfortable.
The fact that you have told your wife that you are not comfortable with her 'friendship' and she hasn't ended it, speaks volumes. KWIM?!
She is choosing to dismiss your feelings, risk her M, for her 'friend'.
This is not normal behavior.
Perhaps it is 'innocent' but the fact is she is disrespecting you.

How is your relationship with your wife?
What does your gut tell you?

Scubachick posted 12/14/2013 18:39 PM


I sent you a private message. I had the same problem... My husband taking a female employee to a casino in middle of the night. I know of at least 4 times.

RJB3 posted 12/14/2013 19:43 PM

The only fights we ever have are about her "friend". When were not dealing with it, we have fun together, are playful, are intimate regularly.... I wouldn't know about the "friend" If I didn't fimd out long ago when things weren't so good.

Crushed1 posted 12/14/2013 21:37 PM

Since she refuses to end her 'harmless friendship' with this married man, there are some things YOU can do. How much more of this are you willing to tolerate?

One option is to tell her that she's well aware that YOU are uncomfortable with this and she now has a CHOICE to make, she either has YOU as her husband or she can have him as her friend and you will start D proceedings if she chooses her 'friend'.

Ask her to find another job.

Begin doing the 180 on her.

Find another way to contact his wife. I don't know any wives who would be comfortable with this situation.

This is NOT 'harmless fun' as your W is trying so hard to convince you of. As Sisoon said, it's hidden and covered with lies, which all indicates no good is going on.

I've known hundreds of married couples over the years and I don't know of any of them who would be comfortable with their spouse being such good friends with their opposite sex coworker as to go to a casino numerous times with them ALONE.

The book "Not Just Friends" is a really good suggestion, ask her to read it. It's good common sense and truth.

Dreamland posted 12/14/2013 23:40 PM

You said that she's in HR. I would blow this out of the water. First of all this is extremely inappropriate behaviour for anyone but especially in HR. I would find out the OBS address and try to meet with her and explain in person.
Then yes read "just friends". This seems like an EA and plus they seem to have a gambling issue.
Get to a lawyer and find out your options. She's not a very good mom leaving her kids to go gambling.
I am sorry she's being such a bitch. But you need to get tough with her.

BlondieBlueEyes posted 12/15/2013 00:17 AM

Unreal - her complete lack of care for you and your marriage is sickening! She is throwing in your face that she can do whatever she wants with this guy and she will continue to do whatever she wants with him no matter how often you catch them or scold them for doing it.

Why not ask her why she's with you in the first place since its obvious she wants to be with him! Stringing you along isn't fair or right - if she wants out and to be with this guy then she needs to do just that!

You cant spend your life tracking her every movement only to once again be proven right - you'll go out of your mind eventually!

I agree that finding another way to contact the wife might help but honestly do you want this marriage? it takes two to work on keeping a marriage together and to repair a A but it seems she's just happily keeping on doing her thing behind your back regardless of how often she's caught....unreal...

RJB3 posted 12/15/2013 08:47 AM

Again, thanks for the responses. Every one is appreciated.

Last night ended it. We finally had our talk. I could tell she knew it was trouble. She didn't want to do it Friday night, was too tired, and last night she waitied until the last minute before bed ( I told her earlier lets talk when you're ready).we had a great fun filled day but her attitude completely changed when the talk came.

S I proceeded to tell her that the lying, hiding, disregarding my request to end it and unwillingness to end it, any of them alone would make that in inappropriate relationship. All of them together make it beyond inappropriate. She denied talking to him when she was out of town which I knew was a lie because I recorded her. She insisted she treats him like she does everyone else which is another lie. She doesn't talk to anyone as frequently as him, however she says she does even though I hear otherwise.

Long story short, I told her I recorded her when she was out of town to prove she was talking to him in situations when she shouldn't, like traveling, and she blew up. She said she set me up to admit I was recording her after I said I wouldn't and told her I didn't, therefor I lied and cannot lecture her on lying.

I flat asked her if she was willing to risk her marriage and husband for that friendship and she fired back, you don't want to ask me that right now repeatedly referring to me as her psycho husband for checking up on her , so i repeated the question and she said yes, so I said ok. I done. I packed up my things and left last night.

That's where I'm at. Hoping and praying that I won't regret the decision to leave my family for the rest of my life.

We have 1 and 4 yr olds. This Santa is hurting. Was just getting good at it.

[This message edited by RJB3 at 9:04 AM, December 15th (Sunday)]

mrcpu posted 12/15/2013 09:06 AM

OMG. ((((hug))))!!!

I'm so sorry it had to come to that. hardest part probably starts now. I had to leave my wife a few years ago because of her in appropriate behavior with her ex. It was a long couple of months and I missed the kids desperately.

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