((((PW)))) I am so sorry you are here.
How do I know if ANY of this is sincere?
The only thing he is sincere about is doing what he wants regardless of how it impacts you. He isn't working towards R. You are. he's doing what he wants because he knows there are no consequences otherwise.
If someone keeps stabbing you in the back, then quit handing them the knife.
No Facebook password = deal breaker
WH blaming me for his affair months after DDay = deal breaker
Continued lying = deal breaker
*24 year old beautiful college student as ongoing massage therapist in a private locale = deal breaker
*I completely understand the benefits of massage therapy. But it's ridiculous for your WH to do this right now. Why can't he utilize a spa (so that it's in a business and not in a private location)? Why can't he use a male therapist? Obviously your WH has shitty boundaries (so does mine, but he is working hard on them) and there is no way he should be engaging this young lady's services in a private location, on a continual basis.
Right now you shouldn't trust your WH bc he is showing you he is untrustworthy.
Have you read through the info in the healing library - yellow box in the upper left corner? There is a lot of great stuff in there. (((Hugs)))
[This message edited by TennisTC at 1:32 PM, December 19th (Thursday)]
2002/3 (him) EA
Tog. 16 yrs, Marr. 15 and counting!
Was wondering - Is your WH Sex Addicted?
I am in a similar situation. My SAWH has been doing all of the right things: IC with a psychiatrist, also CSAT, MC with me, SLA meetings weekly or every other week, spending all of his free time at home with family vs. complaining he hasn't seen his friends, planning date nights with me, gave me a timeline of the affair and accounting for all of the money spent. Yes, on paper this all looks great. But it's very difficult for selfish people to change their ways, even if they are motivated. And it's pretty easy to talk the talk and intellectually know what you have to do but it's a lot harder to actually DO it and keep it up. And for him, he's been selfish his entire life. Two things…First, he's very defensive when this is brought up. He takes it as though I am saying "YOU aren't doing enough, you aren't trying to change" and that is not at all what I have said. Maybe I am just not being as "positive minded" as he would like. I am cautious, for obvious reasons. I still don't really believe he is REALLY committed to this. Second thing: When I ask him about what he will do different in the future he doesn't sound like he understands or believes in his heart what he needs to do to prevent himself from being in same situations in the future. Being "afraid of the consequences" is not enough. He's got to want to NOT go anywhere near there and recognize the behaviors and social situations that he puts himself in (i.e. hanging out with friends who participate in this kind of stuff).
I just finished "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. I highly recommend it. Hopefully your WH will read it as well. It was well written for one thing and examines infidelity at all angles…even examines what is likely going on in the head of the other person (especially OW). In some respects it made me more cautious in my thinking and approach to R. One of the good things about it is that it has tons of research included. So it's not just case studies of couples the author counseled, it's actual research she conducted or was conducted by some other reputable person in the field. Now I know why this book is so highly recommended.
[This message edited by womaninflux at 2:28 PM, December 19th (Thursday)]
Womaninflux...your H sounds like mine. He gets VERY defensive when I ask him about things. I try to use neutral words when we talk (like you were "dishonest" versus calling him a "liar" or even saying "lie" because it sets him off). He uses words like "persecution" and "crucified" when I try to talk to him and I can promise you...I don't call names or say nasty things AT ALL. I don't yell or scream either but he cannot take anything that remotely sounds like a criticism. His mother is an extremely critical person and I think he needs some intense IC to figure himself out. He tells me he doesn't...he's relying on God to change him. I can't help but think this is what turns people away from churches...sad.
I think I'm going to pick up Not Just Friends...I've heard great things about it. Thanks for all the support. This is a great community...it's just SO sad it has to exist. I have NEVER been a cheater and never could be. It's just not in my DNA so it's a hard thing for me to understand.
"I want R. My H says he wants R but won't do any of the necessary work. In fact, he's acting more provocatively than he did during is A. Is there hope for me?"
Again gently, I don't see any hope for R with this guy at this point. Possibly a shock to his system might cause him to change.
Have you outed his A? Has he confessed to his congregation? Is it too much to ask him to resign his pulpit?
Have you considered giving him an ultimatum? (Full transparency now, full honesty with no clever word games, MC, IC for him, plus whatever else you want - if he doesn't step up immediately, you file for D.)
Have you considered doing a full 180, including filing for D? Or just filing for D now?
To me, he sounds toxic and at best borderline abusive, too.
IMO he's either taken his A underground or he's lining up another. At the VERY least he's still in full wayward mode. He's so far from "getting it" that it's a completely foreign concept to him.
I'd also recommend a hard 180. This is for you. To help you detach and look objectively at your situation. If it gets his head out of his ass, that's gravy. Draw your line in the sand and stick to it. Tell him "I need you to do X, Y, Z by this date. If you don't, I'll do A, B and C."
It's actions, not words, that will tell you what he wants and right now his actions are saying he doesn't care about you or your pain, your wants or needs. It's still all about him.
All affairs are variations on a theme. No one has 'Beethoven's 5th' to everyone else's 'Chopsticks'.
I don't mean to be too harsh - BUT:
Your marriage is not in Reconciliation.
Your WH refuses to show true remorse...to be transparent...and to STOP LYING to you.
I suggest you start posting in The General section...and perhaps you will receive some more helpful advise. It's difficult to offer "reconciliation advise" when it appears your WH is simply not trying.
I can understand being alone; but I hate being with someone and feeling lonely.
I think if you go into stealth mode you will get the proof you need to protect yourself.
find the secret cell phone
I'm so sorry but I think you are in for more shocking news if the rest comes out. For him to be able to preach while carrying on an A is frightening. I believe if God truly was working on him and helping him change he would have outed himself and stepped down.
ETA: Please get advice from other BS about getting your ducks in a row and protecting yourself.
[This message edited by knightsbff at 10:34 PM, December 19th (Thursday)]
I edit often to fix stuff ☺️
Profoundly grateful Every. Single. Day. that I am blessed with an H with strength, integrity, and compassion, and that he decided to try.