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FWW and I were discussing another couple the other night. She was concerned they were going through a hard time which was putting a strain on their marriage.

I suggested we tell them the truth about what had happened to our marriage.

She said, "I don't think telling them we had an affair will do anything more than give them something to talk about."

"We" hurt. I get the semantics argument. I didn't say anything, but it's bugging me.

To add to it, the OM FB message of "There is no I, it is we" sticks in my head.

Help me talk myself through this one, my friends.

No, *you* (plural) did not have an A. SHE did. You were caught in the aftermath. If she wanted to give hope to this other couple that marriages can survive major trauma like infidelity (which I think is commendable) she should be willing to admit that she caused the damage. She should not have even implied that you had any part in her choice to cheat. Objectively I think you know this and I know it hurts. I suspect any BS would feel the same. When it comes to As, the only "we" is the WS and AP.

It's not semantics. It's her way of distancing from owning her choices and actions.

I really, really hope you clarified that "we" with her. It's NOT semantics, it's ownership. And if she's distancing herself from it, it's not good.

I might ask her if she meant "We survived an affair." The flip side of that to me would be saying "we got pregnant ". No, she gets pregnant. She's the one carrying the baby that "we" conceived and will raise. So maybe it's just a question of semantics.

Icky, no.

"I" had an affair.

We "dealt with" an affair.

Not "we had" an affair.

Oh hell no...
I hope you clarified... We did not have and affair.. YOU fucked someone else and destroyed OUR marriage.
Don't let her get away with those games... She minimizing the A and her actions.

Sorry I don't let's those slide..

I would have flipped my shit. And I would definitely address it with her ASAP. Because that statement is wrong on SO many levels!

Well, I addressed it. She got very upset and immediately said, "I". We had a very hard morning where she said "I might as well get a T-shirt for every day" and that it's in her face every day and I won't let her forget.

After she calmed down we talked a little more calmly. She hates herself. I told her I don't, I love her and want her to love herself. Ignoring it will not make it go away, and facing it, accepting it as having happened and dealing with painful thoughts and memories in a honest open way is the best way.

She said, "Great, now I have to worry about semantics and everything I say." I said, "That's the point, you don't have to, and neither of us should have to. I want to feel safe to talk to you about fears and pains in order to heal. I'm going to. That's why I created my own timeline, because you weren't ready to do that to help me. I was not willing to stay in the state of insanity I was living in."

We have come a long way. Last year we could not have had this conversation. The year before I didn't even know the affair was going on. I pointed this out.

She slammed herself in the head and screamed, "Can't you see how ugly I am?" and I said, "I'm sorry honey, but no, I don't. I love you and to me you are beautiful. My goal is for you to see it for yourself."

The past was this. This is what it was, and who we all chose to be at the time. The future is a choice, just like the past. Facing it and accepting us for who we were, are, and want to be is part of growth and development.

We ignore it at our own peril. I won't, but I'm not being defensive or abusive either.

Sometimes love hurts. A Lot. I will not, however, carry bad stuff around like a chain. THAT is not my duty.

Thanks for all the comments, my friends. I wanted to ensure my perspective wasn't off base.

We had a very hard morning where she said "I might as well get a T-shirt for every day" and that it's in her face every day and I won't let her forget.

Similar situ happened with me and WW.

When WW said I wont let her forget. I said

**
its nice for you that you can forget. even for a little while. you can get on and not think of it. BUT I think of your betrayal every day. every single day. its there running all the time in the back of my mind.

you say you have pain about it. you say your pain is as bad as what I feel. let me tell you. I would trade places with you in a SECOND. you have no idea what its like over here. none. you think you have pain. but you have NO idea.
**

Yeh I kinda went off on her. That was the last time she ever brought any of that up in front of me tho.

Wow Razor...

Those are things I think, but don't say.

Funny, I still think, "No, that would hurt her, and I don't want to hurt her."

There is no justice. Nothing that could ever even the scales. Just can't be done.

I used to think I could peel the skin off the OM's family right in front of him and it still wouldn't make us equal. I'd still hurt. So the hell with that selfish piece of crap. He's not worth any more thought than any other potential thief that may enter my house. If he comes in again, I'll be prepared, because I know him for what he is now. (Yeah, I had angry thoughts like everyone else.)

I still don't want my wife to hurt, but I can't change the results of her choices. I don't have to add to them by releasing my pain on her, so I try not to be vindictive.

Yeah. Calm, rational, and patient. Anger and self pity are wasted emotions. Boy, but they still hurt, huh?

Wow. That's just fucked up beyond belief.

((((ptsdrecon))))

If you say nothing your WW will think you feel nothing. and that her affair did not hurt you at least to the extent it did.

IMO its important for a WS to get at least to some extent the depth of pain they threw us into. If the dont get that then how can they take responsibility for it?

IMO its not our business to shield our WS from the consequences of their actions. without consequences nothing can be learned.

Oh, Razor, I'm sorry. I get the consequences perspective. I wasn't comparing our situations at all. My wife has low self esteem and I'm trying to help her.

I have kids. I'm big on consequences. Better to learn from them as a kid when you have loving support than when you grow up and the consequences are more dire.

Like this...

:) Thank you Razor.

And yeah, this is such a Hoover...

The I is and important word in there. We implies you were a willing part I this. The part that bothers me is that you suggested she come clean to someone and she immediately said no. Thats not owning it. I can freely admit there are those he and I have made the choice to not tell but I would have told the world had xSO asked me too. Its part of showing that I will accept all consequences. There is not a day that goes by I don't think of it. IMHO I feel your wife is not owning her actions completely, the whole tshirt comment for instance, she's is trying to forget but that's noy how you heal this.

When I started this I thought we were in the Reconciliation forum. I hope you don't mind a WW response.

My wife has low self esteem and I'm trying to help her

.

Help her love and accept herself? Nobody can help with that IMHO. It has to come from within.

I used to think I could peel the skin off the OM's family right in front of him and it still wouldn't make us equal

.

I'm sensing some seriously repressed anger, here. Anger, rage even, is a normal and acceptable response to betrayal. Have you allowed yourself to truly feel, and express, the anger you feel WRT her actions? Several times in this thread, you say you don't want to hurt her. The truth hurts sometimes. Fearlessly speak your truth, with love, and let go of the outcome.

Thanks 20.

Two babies myself. Angry Dad won't help.

Anger is when you give in to Fear, Pain, or frustration.

Read my profile if you wish. I was pretty mad.

Courage is deciding that there is something more important than yourself. For health purposes I understand the need to deal with the anger and even rage. I have. I still get mad, but it always relates to the three listed above.

Always speak the truth in love. Sometimes that requires cooling off and formulating where the thoughts come from and whether they are from my issues first.

I love my wife first. No matter what.

Look up "The Resolution" online. I made mine. There is nothing in my resolution with God that says anything about what my wife owes me, just what I owe my family in order to be the Husband and Father I want to be.

I am a chain breaker. My girls will have a family with a Mom and a Dad.

It has to start with me.

I admire that you want to avoid hurting your wife and that you understand she has core self esteem issues. Although am not sure that there is necessarily a link between this and not talking through the comment by your wife.

Avoiding and not tackling the challenging conversations is also not good for you. Yes coming on SI and discussing it has to be preferable to you internalising it all. From my own experience I have found when I don't address issues with WH I can end up resentful and it comes out in other ways. I have a tendency to develop a bit of a martyr complex and feel like I am carrying all the load and doing all the work in rebuilding. I then become self pitying.

I get that your wife may feel deep shame in how she acted and that may be why she did want this other couple to be privy to knowledge of her affair. Have you thought about bringing it up in a more general way - asking her to talk you through what she was thinking when you made the suggestion so you can better understand her response - because currently you don't.

Look up "The Resolution" online. I made mine. There is nothing in my resolution with God that says anything about what my wife owes me, just what I owe my family in order to be the Husband and Father I want to be.

I am a chain breaker. My girls will have a family with a Mom and a Dad.

It has to start with me.

And do you hold her to the same standard?

Being that your only 10 months out from D-day, I would think she could be more understanding of your feelings. She is talking typical WS bullshit with the tee shirt comment and the get over it already attitude. To me this stinks of rug sweeping and minimizing. Both scenarios are not conducive to a successful R and need to be addressed. And from what you have posted it sounds like she has more regret than remorse. And regret simply does not cut it if you want to R. If you read between the lines of her comments she initially becomes very defensive when cornered regarding her behaviors and comments. Then she calms down and tells you what she thinks you want to hear. The old "I hate myself" nonsense is another way of her manipulating you to back off from voicing your concerns and feelings. I'm sorry to tell you this my friend, but she is still driving the bus here. She is talking a good game, but you need to keep an eye on her actions. Her initial responses to situations are a very telling sign of how she processing her A. And it does not look good from where I'm sitting. To me your WW is a very skilled manipulator and knows how to push the right buttons to make you question yourself instead of the matter at hand. Beware the blame deflection and rush to "Forget" what has happened. These are warning signs that she is not 100% vested in the R. It could mean she either simply does not get it or she is buying her time with you. She is exhibiting some classic unremorseful WS behaviors. Don't be blinded by the goal of R to not recognize them. You deserve better bro.