Why is it that I, as a BS, have to spell out everything that I want from my WH because he is no mind reader, yet he has no problem figuring out what his OWS want/need??
What has been your experience? Does he or she suddenly "lose" their ability to read minds because you're not their affair partners?
Thanks in advance!
They CAN communicate lovingly and empatheticly. They just choose not to.
We have higher expectations. They take the easy route and don't talk at all which makes things worse.
They have to communicate with us about real life. - money, kids, jobs, lawn mowing, Not so fun and takes them away from the fantasy that life can and should be all rainbows and butterflies.
So they begin to associate us with 'hard' and check out. Reality is we are simply mature adults to their Peter Pan.
[This message edited by SummerStorm21 at 10:55 AM, December 21st (Saturday)]
[This message edited by sisoon at 3:53 PM, December 21st (Saturday)]
Thanks SummerStorm21, for sure they like everything easy, including their APs.
Sisoon, thanks for your insight. I just p*ssed me off that one minute, WH is this dumb, clueless person who doesn't know what to do, say, etc... to his BS and he's Casanova to the APs. He was very thoughtful, sensitive, detail-oriented, strategic, articulate, etc... with the APs. Same person. Huh. And all the MCs chalked it up to "communication" problems. Yeah. Sure. They met each others' needs on a very superficial level, the ego-stroking, validation, etc.
Back to detaching, focusing on my happiness and my little sweet baby girl. That's what matters, me and my little girl.
Reality is we are simply mature adults to their Peter Pan.
SUCH a good point. FWH found it a big drag to be a responsible adult pre-Dday and as such, usually wasn't. It made him very difficult to live with (think adult child living in your basement playing computer games all night and sleeping all day) and led to the Lala land thinking that made the A possible.
There is now another real grown up in my house, thank heaven!
He was very thoughtful, sensitive, detail-oriented, strategic, articulate, etc... with the APs.
I know the following is easier said than done.
If you know this to be a fact, could you make it a requirement of R? I know one of my reqs was for my W 'to treat me better than she treated ow', like arranging dates. (It turns out she's better at it than I am, so she still does it. )
If your H demurs, point out that he did it with ow, so he definitely can do it. If he can't do it for you, it's probably an issue for MC and/or IC....
That's great, heforgotme!
Thanks, sisoon, for the suggestion. I don't want to make him do anything. He is an adult, and in this affairs, he has proven to have the capability to be a considerate human being. If he chooses not to be the same with his wife, which is the case, that is his choice. I don't believe in making people do anything because it doesn't work. They have to be self-motivated, kwim? I'm not expecting a mind reader, it's more like consideration. He doesn't even have the motivation to ask what I'd like to do, for example. He is a totally different person with APs and myself. He was acting like an alpha male with the APs and with me, he is clueless and helpless.
But I don't think the wandering SO knows what the affair partner wants in some profound or special way. The AP is typically a broken low-life, for whom anything will do, including gross sex in carparks or down-market hotels, creeping around under cover, and not experiencing a full relationship. I do not know if it is the illicit excitement of the affair or the emotional retardedness of the AP that does it, but something means that they do not need a full empathetic relationship with the wandering one.
Which means that a wandering H or W who does not know what you need probably did not know what the AP needed either. It just didn't matter so much in the affair.
The AP is typically a broken low-life, for whom anything will do, including gross sex in carparks or down-market hotels, creeping around under cover, and not experiencing a full relationship. I do not know if it is the illicit excitement of the affair or the emotional retardedness of the AP that does it, but something means that they do not need a full empathetic relationship with the wandering one
"gross sex in carparks" and "creeping around under cover" and "emotional retardedness of the AP" made me laugh.
These types of thoughts have helped me put and keep things in perspective my whole almost 3 yrs. since DD. Of course, you'd never have known it my first year. (I was a mess and a very sad sick "puppy" then).
[This message edited by Thinkingtoomuch at 8:49 AM, December 23rd (Monday)]
I don't think he was any good at all at reading her mind. When I thought we were should divorce, before discovering the A, so basically giving him his freedom, she thought they could move in together. Was firmly told 'no' by my H. He was surprised she asked, he thought he'd made it plain to her how he felt - friends with benefits and no more - no mind reading there.
So don't assume, just because your H can't read your mind that he did this with AP. That relationship is in no way the same as a relationship with someone you live with.
It's something our MC concentrated on, the most useful thing he could have done. We both realised how bad our communication skills were and how that had to change before we could move forwards. Most people aren't mind - readers. My H is particularly bad at it, and if I don't think he's 'getting it' I spell it out to him. Sometimes frustrating and I wish he was a little more savvy, but he's not, so I deal with it best I can.
The thing that really boggles my mind is Wh has been in my shoes. He was constantly worried I would do the things he did to me yet didn't realize at the time how inappropriate and wrong it was. WTF? Does that make any sense??? Am I the only one who hears that and thinks so you didn't want me doing it...you were terrified enough that you would constantly ask if I was doing it yet you had no idea it would hurt me if you did the same? And you didn't even realize it was the same?
I'm assuming you've talked with your H about this. What does he say to explain why he doesn't step up in these areas?
(In going at this intellectually, I don't mean to ignore the awful feelings that come with being treated badly - like furniture? - and taken for granted by one's spouse.)
[This message edited by sisoon at 11:10 AM, December 23rd (Monday)]
What bothers me still, after all these years, is that he planned everything with them. He took the initiative to make it happen. However, with me, he acts like he's completely lost and clueless. No initiative, no assertiveness, just completely passive and waiting for me to tell him what to do. He's helpful around the house with the chores and the baby. But that's it.
What does he say to explain why he doesn't step up in these areas?
His reason is he doesn't know what to do. But I believe a huge element of it is that he really doesn't believe what he has done is a big deal. He actually started a thread on SI asking that very question. Here is the link: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=492020&HL=20338
I was triggered recently by him, otherwise I've been detached and coping pretty well. sigh.
Thanks again for all your thoughts and suggestions, they're deeply appreciated!
I wonder if some MC would be useful for you now. It sounds like the 2 of you are not communicating effectively, and an outsider could change that dynamic.
It's one thing for him to tell you he can't figure out how to woo you. It's quite another to say that to an objective observer. And even if he does, the observer can then get him to deal with your point that he knew how to court his aps.
I cannot live like this anymore. He needs to put a tremendous amount of work into this marriage right now if he's honest about not wanting a divorce.