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tagalong posted 12/24/2013 18:44 PM

I'm new here and I'm not happy about it. I suspect I'm in good company. I just wrote a one-way letter to the OW and now I am wondering what is appropriate to share here. I've been reading the FAQs and sticky threads but I'm just bewildered and I don't know where to go from here.

[This message edited by tagalong at 10:10 PM, December 24th (Tuesday)]

Lex71 posted 12/24/2013 18:57 PM

Hello. Sorry you have found yourself here. I joined several weeks back and it's been great to vent, get advice and help others.

Share what you want, how you want. This is your safe place. No one is here to judge you, everyone is here to support and help you.

If you've read the FAQ's perhaps you've seen the 180? That comes highly recommended.

Not sure what your story is, obviously you know and found about about an A in recent times - guessing as much if you wrote to OW? I know how utterly confusing everything is, sometimes trying to make sense of it all just doesn't work. Ther is no sense to it and you'll do yourself no good to try and see sense in things. I know from my experience that much of what my WGF said /did was just pure fantasy, to try and understand it was impossible.

Whatever is happening, you are not to blame. You know that right? Are you in IC, MC? If not I'd suggest you look into that if you can. Look after yourself!

It can be quiet here at weekends and holidays. So replies might be a little slow. There's lots of great folk here who have a wealth of experience and they'll be along to help you out some more.

[This message edited by Lex71 at 6:58 PM, December 24th (Tuesday)]

suckstobeme posted 12/24/2013 18:57 PM

I'm sorry you are here, but welcome. There are lots of good, supportive people here. It might be slow for the next couple of days, but people will come along to respond to your posts, answer questions, and give support.

Most people don't share a lot of super specific information just in case anyone in your circle "in real life" is lurking and reading your posts. Keep out names, places, and any information that you think may help identify you if someone is looking. Other than that, feel free to share. The veterans have pretty much seen and heard it all.

The Healing Library is a great place to start. Also, there is a thread in the Just Found Out forum just for "newbies". Poke around and you will be sure to find it.

When you are not reading or posting, please do your best to take care of yourself. Drink water, eat when you can, take a walk, call a trusted friend or family member to talk, and breathe. You found a great place with great people who want to help. You are not alone.

NotFixable posted 12/24/2013 19:30 PM

(((tagalong))) I'm so sorry you are here, but glad you found this place. It's been a real lifesaver to me over the past few weeks. It's nice to post and read posts from folks that know exactly how you are feeling. Take care of yourself and stay strong.

Girlietoo posted 12/24/2013 19:50 PM

I too am sorry you are here but I'm so glad you found us. I think the only rules are that you cannot start threads in the wayward forum (you can respond if the stop sign is not present) and venting about the OW is not ok in the reconciliation forum.

Just found out may be your home for a little while. I've found that folks are particularly attentive to those posting in Just Found Out. We have all been there done that (btdt) and know how much you are hurting.

You are among friends here.

tagalong posted 12/24/2013 19:58 PM

Thank you for the support.

Yes, I found out about an A recently. My WS lied right to my face, something I have never known him to ever do. In 20+ years I had never ever checked up on him and had always trusted him without question. Then I discovered the A.

I just earned a promotion with relocation services and my WS gave me a less than warm response. Essentially I attended an interview, which turned out to be more of an orientation, and I was asked to leave the room for a moment so the panel could discuss logistics on offering me the job but they made it very clear I was their pick. I was elated especially knowing that the position would now be located in a town where we met, where we had friends (his best friend, to be exact), and where there are fewer stresses involved with life there. I called my WS and told him the great news. Knowing I had to walk back into that room in 5 minutes and try to be professional, he dropped a bombshell on me:

"Well that's great, you should go no matter what I do."
"What?! What does that mean?"
"I don't think either of us have been particularly happy in our marriage for some time."

I was dumbfounded but I naively made excuses for him saying, he just needs time to process such a major change. Oh little did I know it was much, much more than that.

A week or more goes by as he mopes around and acts tired and depressed, asking for a simpler life, all the while not accepting that the move would enable that and that I would be paid significant relocation costs. My WS kept saying he didn't know what he wanted. I flippantly mentioned he must be cheating on me and of course he denied it in a dismissive tone. I didn't really think he was cheating, but I knew something was up. Midlife crisis perhaps? Maybe just that processing thing. He doesn't do well with change, especially when it's instigated by someone else.

So one day I asked to use his cell phone to find a file I thought might be on it. He handed it to me readily and I spent quite a while trying to find the file. I looked in the browser history and something wasn't quite right. The history showed an email with a subject line I didn't recognize. We both frequently access an email account on that service for shared purposes so I should have recognized the subject line. Strange. But not so strange, I thought. It didn't even dawn on me at the time that he never uses the browser to access email, he only uses the email app on his phone. I figured it must have just been old history when I was using his phone for something else and that I forgot about the email. The link didn't work so I moved on. Something stuck in my mind about it, but I barely paused.

Next I went into his work email through the email app on his phone because he sometimes sends me files that way. That's when I stumbled across a few emails between him and the OW that were inappropriately supportive. My radar went up. It was innocuous enough. Just a congratulatory email to her about a promotion she had just accepted but the kicker was the 20 or so exclamation points after his comment of "very happy for you". Her response didn't give anything away, but *I* didn't get that kind of response from him on my recent promotion and I'm his wife and I was trying to give us both a simpler life! I certainly have never seen him use punctuation like that with anyone, not even me. Hmmm... That wasn't enough to make me think he might be straying, but it was odd. No, he wouldn't cheat, it didn't even cross my mind, even after his strange behavior about my promotion. So I kept searching for my file and went back a little farther and I couldn't believe it when I read a message from my WS to the OW where he mentioned tough decisions and not sleeping. Then the big give away: he said he didn't like "talking about these things" on the work email system so he created a new email account and told her she should recognize it by the name. He asked for her private email address. I was numb. It all came together. I went back to the link in the browser history and there wasn't any indication of the account name or log in. Nothing was in the autofill, nothing told me how to access the account.

I confronted him a few minutes later and I was more calm than I ever knew I could be and he lied and lied and lied. He threw her under the bus and said she was the one that wanted to speak privately about personal stuff he was helping her with and that I wouldn't understand. I just might be the most understanding spouse on the planet so his words stung me and I asked just what was I not going to understand if that's all it is? He was cornered. I sat there and talked to him for a while and told him flatly, he needed to log into the fake email account and show me the messages. He made excuses saying they weren't physical but that he had said a lot of things to her I wasn't going to like.

He finally allowed me to read the messages, at least the ones that were in that account. He used a fake name "so that no one will know I have this account" and carried on about how wonderful she is. She kept him mostly at arms length but then toyed with him somewhat. She would say he's married and he's too old but then would agree that they had a special connection worth maintaining at all costs forever, no matter where they are. She did mention that she was glad he had decided to move to the same city where I was going (even though he hadn't yet told me of this decision), but his actions were in stark contrast, basically trying to get her to admit that she wanted to pursue something more with him beyond friendship. I could go on and on, but it's taken a huge toll on me to deal with this and I simply don't have the energy or emotions for it anymore. My stress was already through the roof (which is why I needed this promotion out of my current job) and my health is poor and here we are, piling it on more and more.

After I found out, I was sick for days. I didn't eat for almost four days. I didn't care. I felt like an automaton just going through the motions trying to let time pass sufficiently to get to the next stage. I have been cycling through anger and a million other emotions and attempts to move forward and he keeps putting up roadblocks. "No, don't move out," but "no, I don't know what I want," he says separately. "I think I'm better off single," but no, I cut off all contact with her, "She's dead to me". "It's not about her." "It's not about you. It's me." "I didn't feel like I could talk to you." "I tried to talk to you." "She's just so easy to talk to." "I never meant for this to happen." Now he says he's been thinking about our marriage being unhappy for a couple of years. Blah blah blah. He is a walking contradiction. I can't even think straight.

Even if we weren't to continue, he was supposed to show me a copy of what he sent her to cut it off but he claims neither of them kept a copy. He did save what she wrote back and it did have some things in it that made me somewhat relieved that she is agreeing they are ashamed and sorry and are not continuing. But is he still pursuing her secretly? Does it matter?

Soon after I found out, I began drafting a letter to her. I didn't want to start a two-way dialog. I needed to say some of the things I knew he hadn't or wouldn't. I wanted her to hate herself and not me. How do I hold her accountable without blaming her? She knew he is married and although she made excuses not to outright escalate the relationship, she encouraged certain advances. He "asked her THE question" at a lunch he took her to and she supposedly told him she had feelings for him deeper than a friendship. They embraced IN A PUBLIC PARKING LOT just blocks from their work and he said "the intensity and duration" of their embrace told him everything he needed to know about how she really felt about him. He said she didn't need to verbalize her feelings for him. Oh, but I must verbalize everything to him, eh? And he doesn't need to verbalize anything to me? She even sent him a drunken, late night serenade after he alluded to a penis joke. But it must be OK and she is innocent because she reiterated that she didn't want help packing for her holiday trip to visit her family and needed to figure out her job situation for herself. Yeah, I'm sure that was going to be his next excuse. He has been trying to protect her and it disgusts me that he's never protected me, even in the rare times when I needed him to.

I am glad I took the extra time to write the letter carefully and have a friend look it over. My friend just went through the EXACT same situation last year and my WS was there through it all, admonishing her WS for his selfish, cowardly behavior. I had even mentioned my friend and her WS just a couple of weeks ago and my WS continued this disparagement of my friend's WS EVEN WHILE HE WAS DOING THE SAME THING! Sickening!

So the long and short of it is that I wrote her an email today. I also sent it by facebook. I paid the $1 fee to make sure it made it to her inbox. Now I wait. I'm not quite sure what it is I'm waiting for as I may never know if she reads it and it doesn't much matter in the overall scheme of things. I hope it ruins her holiday and she has to admit to her family what she did. She is not innocent in this, but I do blame my WS for most of it.

There's so much more but that's enough for now. If you want to see the letter I wrote, I'll edit out identifying information.

[This message edited by tagalong at 10:09 PM, December 24th (Tuesday)]

Lola88 posted 12/25/2013 00:13 AM

Hi Tagalong and welcome to the club no one chooses to join. I'm fairly new here too - almost four weeks since I was blindsided by discovering a secret mobile phone my husband had for contacting his OW - similar situation, work colleague, twenty years younger etc,etc.

I just want you to know the care and support on this site is amazing, you need never feel alone and there is lots of advice for the more practical things you may struggle with now.

Be kind to yourself and take care, try to eat a little and drink plenty of water. Know that none of this is your fault and find the strength to get through hour by hour. (((Hugs)))

Skan posted 12/25/2013 11:41 AM

Hey there. Don't be surprised if 1) she never acknowledges your message, 2) she serves you up all kinds of self-serving BS and/or attacks you, and 3) if the NC message that he sent to her actually said something like my wife found out so we have to play it cool and pretend that we're all through with each other.

All, unfortunately, are likely scenarios. I'm sure that you realize it by now, but he is playing you. Also, I highly suggest never contacting the OW again because frankly, she doesn't give one fig for you. You're just a speed bump on her radar. However, if she is married or has a BF, then give that betrayed person all of the info that you have.

You cannot allow your WH to sit on his fence. He'll do that until the fence rots away. Knock him off of it. There is only room for 2 in a marriage, and those two need to be transparent, honest, and faithful. None of which he has been.

So, take your promotion. Make plans to pack up and go. Tell him that you decided to take his recommendation that you do so, and go for it. If he wants to come along, then lay out what he needs to do. At a minimum, full transparency with all of his electronic devices and social media you get ALL passwords. He goes to IC to get to the bottom of his lying and deceit. You get a full and complete timeline of what he's done and when. And anything else that you need. I would also see a lawyer, were I you, because you will need to know what your rights are and, especially if you take this better job, how to protect your new assets if he continues to betray you.

I know that this seems harsh and abrupt. But if there is one thing that each and every one of us has learned here, it's that you cannot, absolutely cannot, love or lure an unreprentant wayward back to you. It's hard enough with the WSs that pull their heads out of their neither regions immediately. With one that continues to lie and cake-eat, you need to stand up for yourself and do what's best for you, and if they want to come along, they need to get in step with you and no one else.

I'm so sorry that he took SUCH a WONDERFUL time in your life and spat on it. Please come back here often for support. We're all here for you. (((hugs)))

lqqk4answ posted 12/25/2013 13:05 PM

"I just earned a promotion with relocation services ".

My contract was over this Dec so I had a real chance to move on. WS convinced me to accept a local contact and stick around -- I'm regretting that now. Clearly every situation is unique but I'm thinking you always have to do what you think is the best and right thing to do. If a spouse is true, they would support you vice fight you. Just my opinion and since I'm still struggling I would take it with a grain of salt.

tagalong posted 12/25/2013 15:50 PM

Skan you are definitely right about much of what you wrote.

For my letter to the OW, I wrote it for me and don't care if she writes back or not. I hope she doesn't. I do not intend to contact her again.

Judging from the messages they exchanged before I found out, I think the OW is genuine in NC, but I do not trust my WS now and do not know what he actually wrote in his NC letter or whether or not he is still trying to contact her.

You are right and I am now knocking him off his fence. but I think his fence is more about being responsible to an(y)other. He can't have the OW but he doesn't want to address our underlying problems. Right now our marriage is 1.5, not 3. He is not present in our marriage.

I am taking my promotion no matter what. I just hate that he has put me through this and that I am in financial limbo until he steps up or leaves. We have to sell the house and I have to arrange to downsize and relocate (a huge undertaking beyond a normal move but I don't want to be more specific here), but I can't afford to do that on my own. I need to know if that is it or if he is really going to commit to trying to rebuild. I am trying not to be rash or jump to conclusions, but I will not play back up for him. I am on a timeline and although it's way more gracious than I had hoped, it is still imminent.

He has been to 1 IC appointment and he has an appointment next week. We both want MC but I won't bother if he is not committed to the work.

Lawyer is on my plan.

WS is repentant, but not committed.

You are exactly right that he spat on my hard-earned reward, which I wanted for both of us.

Thank you for your honesty and frankness!

[This message edited by tagalong at 3:46 PM, December 26th (Thursday)]

tagalong posted 12/26/2013 15:46 PM

I read a lot more FAQ yesterday and even shared some with my WS. He is clearly in regret and not remorse. So telling.

This board is pretty active now, so I'll post my letter to the OW. I know she read it Tuesday but I will not be contacting her again even if she replies. No need for kid gloves. Your thoughts on how to honestly help me through this are appreciated.

There's of course a lot more to my story, just not sure what you guys need to hear to give good information. Working day by day to get through this. And I am EXCITED for my promotion and upcoming move, WS be damned!

Hello, ZZZZ.

I am writing not to open a two-way conversation with the other woman in an extramarital affair with my husband, but to bring into sharp focus the gravity of the situation so that we can all move forward in our lives.

In every relationship there are challenges that require some attention to overcome. I am disappointed that although I dedicated myself completely to fostering open communication with my husband for more than 20 years, XXXX did not respect me enough to afford me the same consideration so we could have worked together in a progressively loving and devoted partnership. Unfortunately, instead of sharing his concerns openly and honestly with me directly for the betterment of our marriage, he opted to turn away and conceal the founding impetus and nature of your relations. Although you conducted yourselves under the guise of simply helping one another as friends, you chose to deceive together and escalate an affair. Ignoring underlying issues in favor of lavishing another with misplaced affection is in no way constructive and has been unimaginably detrimental to all affected. If there is healing to be done, communication between you cannot continue on ANY level.

My husband chose to expend emotional energy with you that he originally vowed to dedicate only to preserving, maintaining, and strengthening our marriage. In so doing, your relationship stole from all three of us. XXXX had nothing left to give after spending time with you and because he was unwilling to nurture our commitment, he and I grew even farther apart. This affair has quite possibly inflicted irreparable harm and I'm sad to admit that I now distrust XXXX for the first time in more than 20 years together. I'm also disappointed for you that you entered dangerous ground with an unavailable man, diverting attention away from yourself and a healthy, real relationship. I am further shocked that the two of you acted so recklessly and inappropriately that you put both your relationships and your careers in jeopardy, which could have unforeseen ripple effects on you and your respective families for many years to come.

In all of this, you both should know that I am a strong woman and I do not allow my existence to be defined by the actions of others. I respect myself and I choose to find and create my own happiness from within. With this strength, I am not at the mercy of relying on others to give my life meaning, nor do I relinquish my power to others to use against me in breaking my spirit. I hope that one day you can both learn the same. It is a lesson that will serve you well so you never find yourselves repeating the same missteps and hurting yourselves and those closest to you.


[This message edited by tagalong at 3:47 PM, December 26th (Thursday)]

tagalong posted 12/27/2013 12:29 PM

After reading some other threads, I see how similar my situation is to Felco's. I am relieved that I am already doing much of what was recommended to him and I am committed to the 180. I had to check some of my behaviors with that but once I resigned myself to it, I felt some peace. It helps that I announced my promotion and friends and coworkers are lavishing me with the congratulations any decent human would, although it hurts that my WS didn't have that basic decency.

I wanted MC some years ago but we never did it. Then when I discovered the A this month, after lying and justifying his actions and me breaking down and saying I wanted him out, he said IC and MC. I immediately rejected MC as a waste of time and money as he is not truly committed to R and MC is not going to convince him he's not pining after his soulmate or twin flame and no one is going to magically tell him the right thing to do. I later agreed to MC but he put his IC first and says he needs to see who is IC says to see for MC. More stringing me along.

Now he has gone to 1 IC and scheduled another and paid some woman $150 to read his Akashic Records this February. He told her: "I recently read your article entitled “Twin Flames & Soul Mates.” My situation would best be described by a statement under the Soul Mates section: “I have done readings for many individuals who are married and have met a soul mate and are struggling with whether to stay married to their existing partner or divorce to be with their soul mate.” Of course, I do not know whether I have truly met my soul mate but am hoping to gain some insight into whether I have previous connections with my wife or this other person." puke He says it's not about the OW. I said he is still lying to himself. I asked what he was going to do if he finds out the OW is his twin flame. Try to win her back with the results of the reading? She rejected you and gave you an NC!

I told him to stop waiting for someone else to tell him what to do. He needs to mtake his own path and his own happiness, no one can make him happy but him. He says everyone but me makes him happy!! I said that's because I see through your shit and call you on it and no one else in your life respects you or themselves enough to do the same for you. I said you're delusional and always looking for the greener grass and you can't even see how good it was here that you threw it away.

I told him he's not special, that reading SI is like readings playbook on everything he has done and will do as a WS. I told him he is in fantasyland, in regret not remorse. Although I read the FAQ on that to him and gave him a printed copy after I had already told him how to start amends without having been here yet, he is playing dumb because he doesn't want to do the work. He says what if I am not his soulmate since I say he has never treated me with love and respect. He thinks there's some 'greater purpose' to pursue that maybe we're not meant to be and have past life history this way and with others. I told him it doesn't matter! We're in THIS life together now and WE MAKE CHOICES here and now, even Edgar Cayce said things are not preordained as if you are a helpless tree in a stormy wind. This is a cop out to blameshift to the Universe. I asked what he was going to do if he finds out I am his twin flame? He said then he would make it work. I told him it's not his choice, that he threw us away and I said it is F'd up to require some stranger to tell him to pull his head out of his ass and love his wife. I asked him why he doesn't just choose our M and treat me as his twin flame. That if he spent half as much effort on us as he did in his A, we'd probably be on cloud 9 together (acknowledging though that we both have work to do). He repeats his fogshit and blameshifts to me saying he doesn't know why I want to be with him. I call him on his shit and tell him we're not talking about me, that's separate and the way he should treat me should not be dependent on me reciprocating, that he should want to make ammends. That's how remorse differs from regret. That he should commit to working on the M. He says he needs to talk to his IC, go to an MC with me, and talk to this woman about his Akashic records before he can commit, that he doesn't want to pretend if it isn't what's supposed to be blah blah blah. He says I'm asking for total commitment to the M as if I want an unrealistic guarantee that it will work. I am asking for total commitment to only R, and that if we really put in the effort and find then that it won't work, that's another step and we part then.

At this point I don't want to be hasty or stupid but I will not be his back up. I told him I am better than that, that this shouldn't be good enough for anyone, that I deserve better. He continues his shit as if daring me to leave. I realize now that is what has to happen. But I am torn. Do I leave and trust he will do the things around here that must be done (way more than typical stuff)? How can I trust that if I couldn't even trust him to honor me? Do I return daily to ensure that? It's not really practical to dot hat and I need to save money to move. How can I kick him out if he refuses to go? What if he does go and then the freedom and comforts of a hotel nourish his fantasy? (That's what happened last year with my friend and her WS.) How can I do all that must be done here on my own? The last one is the easiest and I know it is just feartalk. I have already started looking for live-in help. I am thinking me leaving is the best thing but wondering does that give up my power as some other posters said in the FAQ? When is the right time to go vs. the right time to be patient?

[This message edited by tagalong at 1:21 PM, December 27th (Friday)]

tagalong posted 12/27/2013 13:05 PM

I also wanted to share that I discovered his A on his work email after he had deleted what he claims were just a few emails over a few weeks prior to DDay. I always told him not to conduct personal business on work email. I told him I submitted a public records request for his emails. He said there is nothing to find and didn't care. Then he got really agitated that his boss or coworkers could see the request 'because [I'm] vindictive like that'! I said bull! I haven't ever been and even now when I could have exposed them at work, I have only told 3 close friends. Then it becomes clear, he isn't worried about me showing it to them, he's worried they will see it when they process the request! I told him he should have listened to my many warnings about personal business on work emails and he obviously didn't care if they found out before because he had the A at work, including going out with her socially and hugging her in a public parking lot at a nearby restaurant with such 'duration and intensity' that he knew her true feelings without her having to verbalize them to him-for all to see!! He doesn't know that I haven't actually put in the request yet. Unless I show him, he will likely never know if I have the emails, nor will his boss. I told him his boss might never know. That may have been a mistake to say. I wonder if it will help break his fog as part of the 180 or will it just justify his feelings blameshifting? Do I follow through? Have I gotten enough of the reaction needed without following through? Have I undone that by saying his boss may never know and now it's pointless to go ahead with the request?

tagalong posted 12/27/2013 13:46 PM

Shit. It is our day off and he is downstairs. I haven't been down yet. I was going to go out all day without him, leaving early, but I'm exhausted and I needed the extra rest. We need to ready the house for sale. He just texted me: 'I would like to tile the kitchen today with my lovely wife. What would you like to do?' Is this fogshit manipulation? Just practicality (like the foundation for much of our relationship)? Or is this trying to do remorse and amends? How do I accept and reward desired behavior without falling into a trap? Do I need to reward it by accepting if it's genuine? If not, won't that let him justify continued bad behavior? I think I need to just be blunt and ask what this is but I don't think I will like when he says, we just need to get it done. Then I should leave him to do it alone as 180, right?

[This message edited by tagalong at 1:47 PM, December 27th (Friday)]

NeverAgain2013 posted 12/28/2013 05:49 AM

Never trust a lying word out of their mouths.

Affairs are extremely SELFISH acts. He's obviously still of the mindset that the world revolves around him and HIS needs.

I think the most unforgiveable offense - aside form his constant lying, cheating and disrespect - was his incredibly selfish and asshole response to you when you were in the interview process. You called this cretin and got ZERO support, ZERO respect, ZERO encouragement, and ZERO consideration.

Instead, he chooses THAT time to tell you how he wants to escape his oh so horrid marriage with you?

That's all I'd need to hear and I'd be at the lawyer's in the morning.

Does this OW have a husband or SO? If so, this man needs to be told about these two. NOW.

I find it extremely 'convenient' that his so-called NC message - and HER copy, as well - were both mysteriously deleted. Yet, she took the time to stage a 'response' to this mystery message that's designed to make you think they feel bad about their affair and will end it.

99.9% of the time, it's all staged to shut you up, just as Skan said in her post. They merely lessen their contact until things cool down a bit and you're fooled into thinking they're no longer talking. They've just gone deeper underground and found other ways to communicate that you're not aware of. Pay-as-you-phones, tons of apps on their cell phones that don't leave a trace on your cell phone bills (Snapchat, Facechat, texting apps that don't leave the texts on their phones, etc. etc. etc.)

Unless your husband has an old fashioned flip phone from 6 years ago, it's more than likely he's using one of the many secret apps you don't know about.

It's a shame you let your husband know that you're on this site. Even if you didn't tell him your screen name here, it won't take him long to find your threads and discover your posting name. Don't be surprised when he starts reading all your posts and knows EXACTLY what you're planning on doing before you do it. It's unfortunate, but you've lost your safe haven here to vent or discuss possible strategies that will benefit you because in essence, you've handed him your play book.

Good luck to you in your move and promotion. I'd take it whether you drag his dead weight with you or not. It's about time it became all about YOU. He's more than had his turn at it for a long, long time.

tagalong posted 12/28/2013 10:32 AM

No worries there. He doesn't know I post here, just read the FAQs. He won't put forth the effort to find my posts but even if he does, there's nothing I will post that I haven't already said to him. As far as a secret playbook, I don't feel the need.

No SO for the OW AFAIK.

[This message edited by tagalong at 10:35 AM, December 28th (Saturday)]

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