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2 months out and both struggling

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BrokenJohnny posted 12/26/2013 09:18 AM

Hello all. Thank you for all the supportive posts. In October I found out that my alcoholic fiancee had been having an affair with a guy she used to work with. this was an exit affair in that she was planning on ending our relationship soon over the issue of having children. The lies and TT began immediately of course, but after weeks of questioning and my own investigations I discovered that there was another affair before this one with a married man from her current job. Many more lies about that affair as well of course. After D-day she immediately began AA and has only relapsed once. Her contact since d-day with AP's has been minimal except of course to synchronize the lies since I was questioning the more recent one. She had been telling them both that she had a hall pass to do what she was doing. More recently I had contact with the one from her current job. I believe that she is now being more honest about timelines and specifics. She agreed willingly to a polygraph to verify her current honesty. In fact she got very upset that I wanted to postpone it since she can't take my distrust anymore. She wants to be a better person and clean up her life, and is demonstrating willingness. I do as well so we don't find ourselves here again ever. The first 6 weeks were really hellish since wouldn't stop blaming me and take responsibility. Also it was her detox time as well, but she offered almost no sympathy for my pain, and just kept screaming at me if I showed any hurt "I don't care!" "Just get over it!" and "Just leave me already!". She is starting to come out of the fog now after 2 months. She has started to find some compassion for me and has been taking steps (reluctantly at times) to reduce my triggers, and do what she can to move toward reconciliation. She is feeling suicidal often, so I feel I cannot demand too much of her. After many weeks she had finally written her NC letters. The exit AP was already out of this since he learned of her lies and alcoholism. The original AP is too scared his wife will find out to be anywhere near this now. To make it all worse I have contracted an STD and my fiancee knows it. This has increased her guilt very much. We have no idea which it came from, but we made them both aware. Remaining in this relationship and attempting reconciliation is the hardest thing either of us has ever done. Her fragile state makes it more difficult. I feel I have to keep giving her compassion, love, and any strength I can muster up to help her because I don't want to see her dead, hurt our reconciliation chances, or her recovery from alcoholism. She is looking into rehab now since her head is so lost. I am supportive, but I can't just not talk about it to her. The mind movies kill. Most days I cannot go without thinking of it for more than 5 minutes. My problem solving mind keeps looking for plot holes and more lies since I was fed so many, it's had to believe I have the real truth now. Reading here we are both hopeful that we can beat this. Soul searching had helped me see that if we are fixed I should be able to give her children one day. My son from my past marriage is grown now, and I wanted to be done with children now, but I realize that I was being selfish and lazy, and that's why I feared more. My fiancee is a good person, that found herself in a bad place and did bad things when she was lost. I love her very much, and I understand her actions. I do not take any responsibility for her choices, but I do accept 50% responsibility for the problems in the relationship. I want to clean up my half, and want her to clean up hers, so we can learn, be better people, and never find ourselves here again weather we make it or not. Days have been getting easier since she is showing love and concern again. I forgive her, but we are still so hurt. Our councilor is good, and personally experienced with infidelity as a cheater herself in reconciliation with her husband. She believes we can do this. We can beat this. It's worth mentioning that the one of the affairs was happening at the job, but the AP does not work with her at this time (in another office). The chance of him working around her again and the triggers of her going back to the scene every day has me crazy of course, and she has agreed to start looking for a new job. So hard. All of this is just so hard.

[This message edited by BrokenJohnny at 4:26 AM, December 27th (Friday)]

nowiknow23 posted 12/26/2013 11:35 AM

Hi, Johnny. Welcome to SI.

Lots of complexity to your situation. I don't have direct experience with addiction, but I know others here have. It's a bit slow right now due to the holidays, but hopefully they will weigh in when they can.

I don't know that you can make any headway on reconciling until your fiancee's addiction has been addressed. And it bears stating the obvious - you can't fix that for her. It's entirely on her shoulders. You can be supportive, but I'm concerned that you are stuffing your needs to your own detriment.

My advice, for what it's worth? Seek out support from Al-Anon for help in dealing appropriately with her alcoholism. And then focus on yourself. You DO need to talk about what you are going through. If she's not willing/able to support you, locate a counselor who can and will help you process all of this. Do not sacrifice your well-being by rugsweeping things.

BrokenJohnny posted 12/26/2013 12:37 PM

Thank you. Yes I agree that she needs to work out her addiction before we can properly address things. Thankfully she is doing fairly well with that, and is willing to put attention on the reconciliation as well with whatever resources she can find in her at times. It's a lot for her. She has been in a bad place for many years without proper communication of it. So much of her life and what she's been hiding from is rushing in on her now that she's getting sober. Thankfully I'm beginning to have better days so there should be less pressure on her. I have been attending Al-Anon meetings as well. They are helpful. I certainly don't want to push my needs to the detriment of the reconciliation, but she and I know that with the pain I'm carrying there may be a limit to how much I can take before my strength wears out. We have hope though. I believe in us. We have been having days recently that offer us even more hope, but they are of course still mixed. She would like to be able to ignore the situation for a while in order to escape her pain from it, but unfortunately the escapism is the behavior that led to this, so when she ignores it I get scared and start thinking that I might be wasting my time. I don't want to think that. We love each other so much and would give anything to change what happened. Since we can't do that we know that the only way out is through... or to give up, which doesn't really get us out, just alone with our own pain instead of together helping one another with a common goal. So difficult. I never thought we would be here. I never thought she would let this happen. I never thought if it did happen I would attempt to reconcile, and neither did she. I think it was easier for her when she thought I would just end it and she could pursue a relationship with her AP, who she now says she realizes was a scumbag and using her as well. I said to her yesterday that it's easier for her to ignore since I thought it didn't hurt her to think of it. The affairs were exciting and the sex was a fun escape, (maybe still a turn on for her). Where as for me, the thoughts are pure horror and dread. She said that it did hurt her to think of it now that she realizes they were both scumbags using her. So that made me feel a bit better. She says she is disgusted with herself and very depressed. I keep praying for peace for her. I also have to mention that to complicate matters even more, during this I admitted to her that I once years ago chatted online with a random girl on a sex type game site an that led to some long distance self pleasure (something she is familiar with with her recent AP). And she has also been holding pain from an event years ago when she initiated a 4 some with 2 of our friends while we were all drinking and a boundary was crossed by me and the other girl which made my fiancee end it abruptly. I know that those events don't exactly compare with months long affairs with 2 men and then all the weeks of lies, but also I know she feels much of what I am feeling now for it. Our past tampering with group play and open flirting policies have really lent a hand in this mess. I tell her each day that I am regretful and sorry for any pain I have ever caused her, and that I am dedicated to us, and being a person we can can both be proud of. She tells me the same. Though her anger,frustration, and inability to initiate the sentiment (on most days) makes it tough on me. I'm just trying to be patient with her, as she is trying with me. I recognize that I'm not dealing with an addiction on top of this, but the loss of her love and compassion through it has felt the same as she feels... Neither of us has our usual comforts from the harshness of the things that come at us right now. We want so badly to be fixed and whole.

Jrazz posted 12/26/2013 13:04 PM

Welcome to SI, Broken Johnny.

It's a long road to "fixed and whole", but you can get there together. Doing the work on the foundation will build a better relationship. It sounds like there were some blurred boundaries for both of you throughout the years. (Drunken 4some with friends?) and I think that things like that need to be addressed and laid to rest to protect both of you from future betrayal.

You are in good company here. We all want to be fixed and whole, and to help others get to that point along the way.


BrokenJohnny posted 12/26/2013 18:22 PM

The boundaries were pretty clear but they were broken. I admit that I broke them with her present. She admits she broke them knowingly some days, other days she is still saying "I honestly didn't think you would care". That type of experimentation was favored by her early on in the relationship since she was so eager to experience women. She said that I got to have my fun years ago, and that it was fair that she get to have hers. So we agreed to play together only, with no actual intercourse with the others. Recently she started suggesting we go beyond that and drop the intercourse rule. I said oh yeah? We will talk about it when we have someone or some couple in mind. I started to think something was up then, but really didn't think she would go out on her own and do what she did. That was way outside even the new proposed rules that were never solidified. Either way we both agree now that that type of experimenting is over for good. At the time I thought it enhanced our trust, but when she started isolating, drinking more, and getting anxious about issues she wasn't ready to table with me, it offered a gateway (in her mind anyway) to say yes to guys she previously told we could only play together with, that were still privately pursuing her. She says she started on facebook chat with dirty talk, nude pic trading, and self pleasure and then started setting up to meet early at work, and stay late when the office would be again empty. Then snuck off to his house when his wife and kids were away. After he got his fill and started talking about worrying about his wife she moved on to the new guy who was still trying to get her alone after she drunken texted him years ago about what she wanted to do with him. She was going to his house and telling me she was with friends. So when she started actually seeing him as an option to move to for boyfriend material (he said he wanted kids) she started gearing up to tell me she wanted kids and figured we would break up. She tried to solidify her new relationship first by telling him about her new found feelings for him, but she says he wasn't very receptive. She says she still was going to confront me (probably thinking he was still going to be an option she could work on) but I discovered the affair before that and confronted them both.
About the reconciliation... I have some optimistic days. But right now I've had my whole world flipped and I am emotionally devastated.

BrokenJohnny posted 12/31/2013 07:56 AM

We are having such a hard time. Last night she came to me on her own to tell me that she had previously been deceitful about her last encounter with her more recent affair. Explained that she originally confessed that she was going out with a girlfriend in the evening to trick me, but what actually happened was that she got notice the previous day that she was going to be off work due to patients cancelling. She said she then planned to go see her AP... that she got up the next day and prepared as if she was off to work, putting on her uniform (scrubs) to make it convincing, kissed me goodbye and went to his house, began drinking and had a 3 hour romp. She left there and went to the liquor store, came home to find me out, drank some more, and went to sleep. I was shocked at what I was hearing. The level of deceit from the woman I was trusting. These details are a lot to take in. But I thanked her for her honesty, and for coming to me on her own with it. That was big. We slept in separate rooms last night, but I awoke at 5am again. I can't sleep well now. I awoke with the thoughts of what she told me brewing in me. I tried to ignore it, but just couldn't get the questions out of my head. I tried to purge them alone, but just couldn't. I wound up waking her and discussing my feelings. No yelling or anything, just a few questions about how her manager at work was in on the cover up in case I called. Her state is so fragile. she came back with anger for waking her. I needed attention, love, and support, but she doesn't have the resources to always give it. I had to tell her how her reaction to me was so discouraging. I had to outline that if it had been me who perpetrated just this 1 particular incident, that we know she would strike out and be so hurt... likely resentful for years, and that instead all I wanted was some attention and a few answers. I explained I wasn't being hurtful, or insulting, just quietly explaining my feelings, and that it would be helpful if she could express sympathy and remorse. If she could show some love and support instead of anger for waking her up and bringing it to the surface again for her. She began to express self pity and cried that she shouldn't have told me and that she can't do anything right. I begged her to swallow the self attention and to please do for me what she would want done for her if she were in my shoes. I can't force her to be selfless. I can't tell her what to do when I need it organically from her. She wants to be dead. She has absolutely no coping skills for this and her comfort and previous coping mechanism of drinking is not available now for the past 2 months. I drained her with this so quickly. She then started to shut down and then tried to give me what I needed. It was almost emotionless though. Some hugging as I cried and a lot of "Im so sorry I hurt you this way" in a monotone quiet voice. I'm saddened that her knee jerk reaction isn't to offer sympathy and support immediately, but instead to focus on how it's affecting her. But I know she just doesn't have it in her right now. This is so hard. We all know what I need here, and at the same time I'm trying to force myself to put my needs aside to tend to the fact that she has a limit to her strength and what she's taking on. I don't know how to handle this when what I need from her is unavailable, and what she needs from me is to keep quiet and not bring this to the surface every day. How do I give unconditional love and support when I'm so hurt and low on resources, and how does she when she is also so hurt and low on resources? She is still feeling she wants to be dead. And I don't know how to get through each day like this.

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