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One of the hardest things to forgive, almost as hard as the affair itself, is the fog period. That even once I found out, we cried together, we separated... He still seemed resigned-yet almost relieved- to be apart. He kept talking to her, etc. knowing my anguish, still spouting lip service of "it's your call if you want me back" while making no effort to convince me.

Now it SEEMS like maybe the fog is finally lifting, and maybe I can start working on getting some actual answers to all the questions that have taken over my brain 24/7 for 7 months. But I don't know if I can forgive him for taking so long to see the light!!! I want to... Really... But that kills me. It's the continued deception after the initial destruction of our lives. Can I accept the fog period as a normal, unavoidable piece of the affair? Can I rationalize it without making up excuses for him? Any advice or input?

Forgiving an affair is not just a matter of forgiving one act and it may not come all at once, IMO.

It's all of the little things that have to be forgiven as well, including things done and said after Dday. It happens over time for many, not just in one fell swoop.

Don't forgive too soon, either. Many people who do that realize they did not truly forgive but said the words in a panic or hoping they were true or while still in shock.

Be gentle with yourself and allow yourself to heal without rushing it.

outstanding topic!

It's the continued deception after the initial destruction of our lives.

As a MH, I cannot BELIEVE the crap we spewed to each other after said affairs. It took us both about a year to get our heads on straight. Him - looking at other women, me - boundaries and not being rude to men hitting on me. but those were the easy ones...

He said so many things that haunt me - THOSE are the things I might not get over. He kept his affair car for 5 months after I asked him to sell it. It was only until we went to a new MC that the MC set him straight on how devastating that was for me - and he finally saw how it appeared as though I wasn't his priority. I would never stand for that now.. I would throw him out. The BS not taking a strong stance is what allows this to continue, IMHO.

Virginia - make a list of the things that piss you off. Know that this is normal for WS but that you DO NOT have to stand for it. I'm so sorry this is happening to you. The fog is almost worse than the affair and you said it perfectly. Do NOT rationalize it. Because you know what? yeah, it may be normal but it's fucking abusive.

[This message edited by rachelc at 3:12 PM, December 26th (Thursday)]

I would counsel you not to push yourself for a decision. Instead, let the decision form naturally. If it takes 6 months or a year or more, so be it. This is your life, and your life is worth a lot of thought and effort.

If you push yourself to forgive, but really he's killed your M absolutely dead, your forgiveness will increase your pain.

Keep telling yourself you can choose whatever you want, that you aren't obligate to forgive or to offer R.

Many of us have chosen D not because of the A but because of the WS's behavior after D-Day. You're not crazy - his fog could be a deal killer for you.

[This message edited by sisoon at 3:59 PM, December 26th (Thursday)]

Mine did not truly emerge from the fog until October. DD was March. I did not get a "complete timeline" of the A until a couple of weeks ago in his therapist's office.

From what I understand, taking this long to emerge from the fog is not unusual. Is he taking responsibility for the affair, his actions, his behavior? Is it getting better a little bit every week?

It's going to take time! It's only been 7 months for you…these things take time and then more time. And you won't know if things are getting better until things really are better.

Thanks for the replies. Since I am just now truly considering R, I am going through a lot of fear, of the unknown, of what he might reveal to me, or how much he will continue to hold back and/or TT. I guess I feel a responsibility to stick with my decision to R- so than you for the reminders that I am not obligated to stay with him if he can't do his part, or if I just plain can't get over it.

One day at a time, one step at a time, right? One day I will be better, with or without him. I guess one of my big fears is finding a balance between wasting too much time on an R that won't take in the end, or quitting too soon. *sigh*

(((Virginiagirl)))

I could have written your post almost exactly!

After dday my H seemed to be truly remorseful and arranged MC. All the while still emotionally involved with OW through work contact. I still can't believe he could watch me fall apart, break down in front of me then go off to work and carry on with her. I hate the fog and am resigned to the fact I will never be able to understand or rationalise his actions.

I agree with rachelc about the strong stance, it took me giving an ultimatum-stop working with her or I leave-for the fog to start lifting, before I had agreed he could still work with her as long as he told me everything. I feel really stupid about that now. Anyway just wanted to let you know that I am struggling with the same thing, I still get panicky wondering if there's a new revelation coming.

I agree completely! It took my WH 3 months to stop talking to OW. Oh but he claims there never was a "fog" because he never had any feelings for her and there were NO EMOTIONS. That almost makes it worse! So there was no reason for him to disregard my feelings of complete anguish and continue to act selfishly and/or spare her feelings? *Not that I actually believe him.*

And I would just add….

Do not be TOO quick to say the words "i forgive you" for any one thing.

One of the surprising things for me is that I found forgiveness was a process. When I started to forgive, I would feel that I had forgiven him one day and the very next day I was still pissed off or reeling from that same thing I thought I had forgiven.

I had made the mistake of saying the words to him too quickly. The truth is…this forgiveness is a process. It is a lot of many different times that you realize you forgive the SAME thing, next day, you haven't again, until one day you realize that 'that thing' really IS forgiven.

At least that is how it was with me.

Hi Virginia,

I posted on your other thread. I am in a very similar position and feeling the exact same hesitations and fears. One thing that is helping me is giving myself permission to "get out" of my decision to R if he does not make the necessary effort.

I have grown immensely since D day and I will never accept the same things I did. Finding my own inner strength is the true hope in all this. I get to decide if he is worth sticking around for, or if I will be happier on my own. At first, I so badly wanted to save "us" and our M, I was a pushover. Not anymore. (OK, maybe I'm not all that tough yet, but I'm a work in progress!!!!). I plan to get stronger and live a healthy authentic life-- with or without him!!!

Hang in there, Virginia!!!!

ETA: on forgiveness-- I agree it's a process and there are a lot of different things to forgive. I felt like I can accept and even forgive the A, but for me, also, it's the behavior and waffling and really hurtful comments made after Dday, that are almost unforgivable. We just started with a new MC/IC/FC- he asked if I've forgiven my WH. Loaded question. How to answer? I'm trying. It's hard. Best of luck in your journey.

[This message edited by StillStanding1 at 12:40 PM, December 27th (Friday)]

Emerging slowly from the fog looks to be a fairly typical response from a fWS.

I contend a WS really has no idea of the reality of their choices. The first lie that was told while choosing adultery was to themselves....very delusional state.

In my case, my co-dependent nature actually nurtured my wifes ability to remain in her fog!

Took her 6 months from NC to really come out of it....and she took her A underground for 2 months after DD...resulting in my second DD. She broke NC 1 week after that.

In a way...my co-dependent nature kept us together after DD...and it cost me dearly.

By the grace of God we did not D or separate.

I have read 17 books on infidelity. It appears the singular act of fucking another person other than your spouse is seldom the marriage-ending event.....the fog and trickle truths are much more likely to break a marriage.

I think that is because of the INTENTIONALITY of a WS actions AFTER DD. No longer can their actions be anything but blatantly intentional.

They see the pain they cause, they realize they have put their family at risk (and the family of the AP as well)...and, yet, aggressively nurture actions that continue to increase the pain to their BS and risk their families.

Add to this and a common "conflict avoidance" trait and it makes sense that a "fog" can last longer than a BS likes. Afterall, it is hard to face the internal conflict that is within all of us....but particularly so when the actions are so grieveous in nature.

I am grateful your husband has decided to come out of the fog and face the reality he forced upon his marriage.

If I had just one wish it would be that a WS come clean immediately. The reluctance to do so have caused many marriages to fail...marriages that could survive their spouse fucking another person, many times, can not surviive the complete and total intentional betrayal that follows discovery.

God be with us all.

Don't forgive too soon, either. Many people who do that realize they did not truly forgive but said the words in a panic or hoping they were true or while still in shock.

Although I believe forgiveness will set you free, I have to agree with this one. Before I found this web site I forgave my WH twice. I didn't realize he was still in the fog, ending & restarting the A repeatedly.

I hope to say "Yes I've forgiven him" but it's a lot harder this time. Someday...........

Even though I still feel my WW is in a slight fog, two days ago I told her that I forgave her for actions and statements post DDay.

When she had her first emergence from the fog, I saw a woman I hadn't seen in years. This coupled with a lot of reading about WS led me to genuinely understand her mental state Post Dday. (even if she didn't).

I truly feel forgiveness for this part of things.

And a good step towards the big one...