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That's what I want to scream at WH.

We got into a little tiff on his way out the door tonight because he announced he had taken some cash from my bedside drawer in case he needed to give some to his friend for some work he is having done for us.

I suggested he take the checkbook instead...and was a bit taken aback because I was trying to figure out in my mind where the cash had come from in my drawer (I figured it out later)...he said he had no idea if he was going to need it or how much...I said RIGHT...so take the checkbook?

Idk....the last time he just suddenly needed cash it was to replenish his secret trac phone...which I found about later, of course...

It could be nothing at all....I just get triggered by the dumbest things...we aren't in R and he is continuing his A (long story but we are in limbo right now, living together with the kids and no changes are coming anytime soon)....he is probably at his friend's house like he said he is....

But he gets mad at ME when I act strangely about these things....like I should trust him or something when he hasn't shown a bit of remorse and is continuing right on with his A...

So frustrating...then I get all worried about whether or not he's mad and if he will be mad when he gets home and if he will be ignoring me/giving me the silent treatment, etc....

How do I stop worrying about that? I didn't think I was really being that bad....I'm sure the look on my face was, "why the heck are you taking a random amount of cash out of my nightstand drawer???".....but still.....

This is so hard....

It seems to me that you barely even raised a fuss, or asked a crazy question. I know how it is... Even with all his shit, years of conditioning have me instinctively avoid saying anything to make WH mad, asking questions, etc. even now when I really should be, somehow I feel guilty for making HIM think about what's happened, or tell me who he's texting?? WTF?

I'm trying hard to break that pattern in myself, because that is something I CAN control. He always got mad at me over every little thing, no matter what I did. So I might as well just do what I want. And if he doesn't like the new me, then screw him. :) His loss, right?

Nekorb -

I just read your profile and understand a bit better why you are in limbo. (I am too, kinda -- but I will be filing for D as soon as I get a job).

My heart goes out to your DD17. And I understand her IC not wanting your H to leave -- but you stated that he said "there is never going to be a good time for WH to leave, but there are going to be less bad times, and this isn't one of them" -- but your H is disengaged and his reaction to the 2nd attempt was not acceptable -- which I take to mean that it wasn't a healthy reaction for your daughter -- so how could him leaving be worse?

One of the things that bother me about your post is this:

...then I get all worried about whether or not he's mad and if he will be mad when he gets home and if he will be ignoring me/giving me the silent treatment, etc....

He has disconnected and you need to as well. He is blatantly having an Affair in front of you and won't stop it. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF HE GETS MAD AT YOU OR IGNORES YOU!!!!!

I understand wanting to save your marriage and your family. But you can't do it on your own or with an unremorseful spouse (and I tried it too).

From your profile and another post I saw, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that even the Bible allows divorce for adultery. I am a religious and praying person as well -- and have had several discussions with pastors -- and it's ok to quite trying when your husband will not stop the affair.

HUGS ((nekorb))

Nekorb, he doesn't need the secret phone now, as he's not even hiding the affair! You need to start protecting yourself, your money and your kids from this situation as like it or not there is someone else in your marriage.

((nekorb))

I often wonder how you are managing this without loosing your mind. I could not do this, nor would I do this.

This may come as a 2x4, but I urge you to really stop and think about the things I am saying.

Your DD who is battling, and struggling with depression has to know that something is up. Kids are more observant, and intuitive than you could ever believe, and I would suspect the constant pain and tension in the household is actually contributing to her mental instability. If you two actually sat her down, and were honest with her, and assured her that his choices have zero to do with her, she may actually start to heal, and realize that her inner turmoil and depression are being fed out of fear of the unknown unease at home.

Next I have been always honest here, and will tell you that I am a Christian, and although I choose not to attend church am strong in my faith. From this point I have to tell you my perspective on this situation. God does not want us to suffer unnecessarily, when prayers go unanswered it is often because we are not praying for the right thing. God has a plan for you, and you need to step back and consider why he has planned this painful passage for you. Is it because you are a bad Christian, and he wants to punish you? NO it's not. Is it that for some reason he wants you to learn and become stronger because of this, you bet. If you are praying to save your M, perhaps you need to consider praying to save yourself, your sanity, your strength, your happiness, and your ability to show these young women you are raising what self respect is, and how to demand it from your spouse, and show them that being treated horribly is not to be tolerated. You certainly wouldn't want them to think this is what a normal happy healthy relationship looks like. You wouldn't want them to go down the same path you are.

Perhaps God's plan is for you to learn that being independent is good and healthy not just for you but for your children.

I realize others will have a different take on this, but I believe my God to be a kind one, and have found that he is there throughout even my darkest times, to help me find my way to the light, and even when I am at my most stubborn, he will help me through. You can't trust your spouse, but trust in finding your way through him.

(((and strength)))

This doesn't sound like limbo - this sounds like you are still acting married but he is cheating. He is taking your money, the work is being done 'for us' and you are worried about what he is doing. That's married, not limbo.

You are right - it's not your fault you don't trust him. However, if you aren't in R, and he has a girlfriend, what's to trust? He should NOT be taking your money. You should NOT be ok with him going through your things. Really, you shouldn't be talking to him.

He has a girlfriend. Your husband has a girlfriend, and acts like things are just fine, and you continue to play this game.

Sorry - this is really blunt, but you need to decide if you are married or not, or you're going to tear yourself up inside. If you are not in R, the you need to take some action. I am very sorry about your daughter, but family counseling could help with that, as could her IC. To me, her IC is completely pushing HIS job off and asking YOU to live in hell because he/she cannot effectively manage discussions with your daughter. No IC has the right to say you should sacrifice your own mental health because they are incompetent. I'm sorry - but that's how I feel. This IC is incompetent and is asking you to suffer to make up for that incompetence.

I suggest detaching from him. Start the 180, and make it clear he is not to touch your things.

He has a girlfriend. Your husband has a girlfriend. Please do not act like this is ok, on any level. It is not, and will seriously damage you if you cannot detach from him.

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the support, advice, and tough love.

I will try and answer/address the concerns (valid) that you all brought up...

Yes, I am a Christian and I know that Biblically I have grounds for divorce. However, I don't agree with his decision to just walk away from a 24 year relationship without giving counseling a try. Also, as a child of divorce, I don't agree with divorce! We had always said, even before we got married, said that we would not divorce, we would always work on our problems and get things sorted out. My parents had a very quiet, non- argumentative divorce...nothing messy at all....and it was DEVASTATING to me and affected my entire life and still does.

In terms of the IC saying this is not a good time for DD17....if she was the only one giving that advice it would be one thing, but she isn't....the inpatient doc gave the same advice...our DD does not have typical teenage depression....she has very deep, adult like symptoms...the counselor said she has never seen a child as deeply depressed as our DD is. (This has been a struggle with DD since early childhood....so it isn't related to the current situation....).

This is another reason I will not file. *i* am not willing to take the chance that my actions are what put her over the edge. I don't agree with WH's decision to end our marriage the way he is choosing to do it and I won't be a part of it. He can do the work himself. I truly think he thought it would find out about the A, file for D, and he wouldn't have to do any of the work...I'd take care of everything. He didn't realize that I'm actually still in love with him!

Honestly, I think the kids know something is up, but they don't know what. WH and I actually get along pretty well most of the time... I make the effort to do that...however, with our oldest home, don't know how long that will last...I think WH's attitude is outing him and I doubt she will go back to school without saying something. I'm hoping it will jolt him out of his fog.

Another reason I haven't detached from him completely is that I'm still hoping to R, and if I detach now, I can't see that as being possible. I know WH thinks leaving is what he wants...but what he has said he wants is for his anxiety to be less and for the tension (pre-A) to be gone....well, that requires counseling...which we can't do because of the A. Although we don have a MC appt on jan 10th....we are going to see if we can start addressing his anger toward me that he won't let go...

Let me assure you my IC stays right on top of this...it's driving her crazy that I'm not in a position to set hard boundaries with him about his behavior. If I was in a different position with DD, I would. I'm not willing to risk her life over it. As it is, every medication in this house is locked up and I have to watch her take each and every pill she takes. The sharps are going to be locked up next as it's becoming an issue. If she doesn't answer a text message I have to find her and make sure she isn't self harming or worse....she is in a really bad place. Her family is the most important thing in the world to her. I'm willing to put up with WH's crap for the time being if it keeps her safe and alive for right now. Both her IC and her inpatient doc don't believe she has *any clue* about what is happening between me and WH. They have specifically tried to find out what her perception of our relationship is.

Back to the faith/religion thing....my pastor told us that if we truly wanted to follow God's plan for us, we both needed to go into counseling without any preconceived notions of the outcome. WH can't go in with the idea that it won't work and we can't recover, and it can't go into it with the idea that we will stay together no matter what. I took me several weeks of thinking, but I finally figured out how our marriage ending could be any part of God's plan: God would not want me to stay in an emotionally abusive marriage if my husband is unwilling or unable to change his behavior.i emailed the pastor with this thought and he said I had finally gotten it.

So...I'm remaining hopeful. I'm praying for my husband from the book The Power of a Praying Wife. I also pray for myself to have strength, patience, peace at heart, etc, but mostly the patience part! I have let go of the idea that I have the power to change my husband's mind. I'm taking care of myself...and in that way I'm detaching as I have always focused on him and his needs...it's hard to unlearn that, but I'm working on it.

I'm in "hope for the best but plan for the worst" mode. I've consulted an attorney and our financial advisors about the situation. I know I should be embracing the 180, but I have to tell you, when God speaks to me about something he doesn't beat around the bush AND He uses actual words....my job for now is to show WH unconditional love...it is what I needed from WH, and didn't get, when I was struggling over an issue....an issue that is at the crux of WH's un forgiveness and anger towards me.

So...yeah...the whole thing is messed up...but it is what it is for right now...also, one of my BFF's lives next door and she makes sure I'm taking care of myself and is on hand for any crying jags that require a girlfriend to come over and sit with me while the kids are at school.

Btw- did I mention that my husband insists he is living God's plan for him right now? That God brought OW to him to make him happy? Yeah. Part of his turmoil right now is that he wants to make sure that his decision is right in God's eyes.

Like I said...the whole thing is really messed up....

I knew I was I forgetting something...the inappropriate reaction to DD17's last suicide attempt was only seen by me, not DD. By the time WH got to the ER, he had had an attitude adjustment, at least outwardly.

Remember, you don't need to justify yourself to anyone here. You are in a very difficult position, you are obviously a very, very strong person. And just because doing what you're doing didn't work for me, it doesn't mean that ultimately it won't for you. But in everything I read that you post I see myself, reacting with disbelief to the man that I loved turning against me. What I learned - and believe me it took a year or more of agony and ultimately a serious depressive illness - was that whatever the moral rights and wrongs of the situation, I had NO POWER WHATSOEVER over what he thought or did. I DID eventually break him down and get him to dump OW and 'try' to mend our marriage. But what I learned then was the hardest lesson of all. He HAD stopped loving me. However hard he tried, and he is a very good man fundamentally so he did try hard, there was no passion or connection left after the horror of the affair period. Eventually I found out that he was seeing her again and then he really did leave. If
I could do it all again - God forbid - I would have taken him at his word the night he confessed to me that he was 'seeing someone else'. I would have asked him to leave and started divorce proceedings, and would have told the kids everything. I would have saved my kids a scarring, horrific year, and MY DD (now 22) an anxiety disorder that happened because she saw the pain I was in.

You may find that your prayers work... I hope they do, sincerely. But if things stay difficult for you, please do keep posting. We really do feel for your pain in this terrible time, and want the best for someone who is obviously trying so hard to keep her family together x

Thanks crazynot.

In the end, if my WH leaves as he says he plans to, I need to know, and I want my children to know, that I did everything within my power to prevent their lives from being ripped apart.

I want them to know that I am actually living by the morals, ethics, and values that we have taught them over the years with regards to how you treat other people, especially the people you love.

If my marriage survives and thrives, then it will have been worth it as well.

There are a lot of parallels going on in our life right now that reflect back to the issue that has been between my husband and I for several years (short version: I have PTSD related to abuse in a fundamentalist religious cult and left Christianity for awhile)... I just keep thinking that to cut and run, aside from the other reasons I've mentioned, will mean missing lessons I'm supposed to be learning regarding empathy and forgiveness...and most importantly, trusting God's timing...which is something my husband missed out on big time...

Anyway....it's just MUBAR right now....I keep hearing my therapist say, "you can't go around it, under it, or over it, you have to go THROUGH it to get out to the other side.". Her other favorite is, "sometimes you just have to sit in your own shit for awhile."

Idk...it's just hard.

Nekorb, have just sent PM - but if he does leave, it may not be as bad as you think for the kids. In our case, I did everything I could as you are doing, and they DO respect that. They know I did not want our marriage to end. But the years since then have been very very happy ones in which, generally speaking, they have thrived. We have a happy home.