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Newest Member: Questiounanswere (45696)

User Topic: How do you move on from uncertainty?
cl131716
♀ 40699
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wh may be telling me all there is and he may not. I don't know but I am sick to death of obsessing about it and looking for evidence of more lies. Every time I try to accept that is all there is my gut starts screaming. But, I don't really know at this point if it is my actual gut or fear. It's so hard to think logically when your head is a mess. Even if there was more Wh will never admit it. He's given me tidbits of new info but nothing horrible. I suspect he did that only to get me off his back.

I'm just sick of doing this. Analyzing conversations, his explanations, his and other women's behavior, all of it.

How do I make the feeling of "there is more" go away???


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
RealityStinks
♂ 41457
Member # 41457
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've found that my gut has been right about everything so far, and my WW is still unremorseful and still lying. I got to a point where I just accepted I'll never know everything and decided to trust my gut (for the time being). And, what good does it do at this point? I KNOW she had an A, and I can put together a pretty good time line based on phone records and GPS records.

If we R, she is going to have to admit what she's done or come up with a better excuse for being at his house 1-2 a week from July-November other than "I was returning a big bowl he loaned me to make potato salad in".

The "uncertainty" I have is just details. I am CERTAIN that she had an A. Do I really need to know how many times they had sex? Or the first time it happened? I think those are the type of questions you have to ask yourself, and those are questions only you can answer. I would be happy with her just admitting what she's done instead of acting like I'm crazy.

I'll admit that it drives me nuts sometimes that I KNOW she's lying, and it makes me feel crazy. So, I can appreciate your situation. If you feel like there's more and he's lying about it, that's hard to deal with and drives you nuts.

I don't think you can make that feeling go away unless you decide you've heard enough and are satisfied with what your WS is telling you. FWIW, I don't think true R is possible until that happens because the WS is not truly remorseful/transparent until that happens.

Sorry if that doesn't make much sense. Just know that I've had similar struggles, and that you are not alone.


Posts: 414 | Registered: Nov 2013
cayc
♀ 21964
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think if I were only 30, and I had only been married 1 year, cheating is a huge problem to have from the get go and too often people who will cheat right away make a habit of it. It isn't the same as a long marriage that is ripped asunder by infidelity 10, 15, 20 year in. In otherwords, why really are you staying when all you are getting is trickle truth and an being fobbed off with crumbs?

In fact, this was my life. And I didn't learn anything until the end, after 10 years of marriage, I learned my xWH was never faithful. But when we were first together? I did notice anomolies (e.g. questionable messages), I just explained them away.

I suspect your gut is screaming not just because you are fearful of learning more in regards to the incidents you are aware of, but because somewhere in your head you're thinking "we've only been married a year!"


"I'm not afraid of storms, for I'm learning how to sail my ship." - Louisa May Alcott

Posts: 3143 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
cl131716
♀ 40699
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I suspect your gut is screaming not just because you are fearful of learning more in regards to the incidents you are aware of, but because somewhere in your head you're thinking "we've only been married a year!"

Yep. I've thought about that a LOT. The sad part is really our relationship began with cheating. He was telling another woman he found her attractive and if they were ever single they could try it out. Within ONE MONTH of dating. He met with her twice but nothing ever happened more than a kiss on the cheek. Then D-day...we were married only 6 months when the EA with his co-worker began. SIX months!!! And all in between that there was a ton of questionable behavior.

In otherwords, why really are you staying when all you are getting is trickle truth and an being fobbed off with crumbs?

Truth? Because at this point in time I am dependent upon him and we have two children together. I'd like to say it's because I love him but how can you love someone who has treated you so disrespectful pretty much the entire time you have been together?


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
sisoon
♂ 31240
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There's a lot of uncertainty in recovering from being betrayed. Whether or not you've got the whole truth is only one issue of many.

IMO, moving on is a decision. I decided I wouldn't get any more of my W's truth than I had, and that was OK. I decided I know enough.

BUT - BUT - BUT - my gut tells me that my W isn't hiding anything. The only reason I won't get more info is that she organizes experience & memory different from the way I do, and the differences are obstacles that can't be resolved. My W came clean, starting in D-Day. She did hold some stuff back, but only until our next MC session. She continues to answer any question I ask, 3 years out, and my gut continues to tell me she's telling the truth.

You describe something very different. Your gut says your H is holding something back. Your gut is probably right. You say your H never admits to anything you can't prove. That means he's lying to you, by omission.

I would hate to have to accept lies from my W. I assume you hate to accept lies from your H.

So, you could accept what he says as truth and sweep your gut feelings under a rug. You can also resolve the uncertainty by doing a 180 in preparation for leaving a guy who cheated, who accuses you of cheating (which brings up the specter of abuse), and who continues to lie to you.

I get the desire to be a whole family, especially with an infant, but is he really helping you that much? JMO, of course - you know more about your sitch than I do.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10570 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
cl131716
♀ 40699
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The "uncertainty" I have is just details.

My uncertainty is really how far it went and how many OW there were.

My gut has always been right in every other situation. I don't know if I've developed PTSD or he is just gaslighting the shit out of me but I have never been this confused and felt so crazy in my life. It's enough that I don't trust him but at this point I don't even know if I can trust myself.


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
cl131716
♀ 40699
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You can also resolve the uncertainty by doing a 180 in preparation for leaving a guy who cheated, who accuses you of cheating (which brings up the specter of abuse), and who continues to lie to you.

Probably the best resolution there is. I'm a relatively smart person and really I know the answer. His little method of manipulation keeps sucking me back in. When we are apart I think logically and when I look back I realize how "off" everything is. Not just the cheating but his behavior as a whole. I feel stronger, clearer. Then he comes home, feds me a bunch of BS, and I start to feel crazy again. I start thinking it's ME, I can't let things go, I'm making mountains out of molehills, etc. I actually begin to feel guilty for suggesting he is still lying or hiding something.

Right now my main focus should be getting my ducks in a row.

[This message edited by cl131716 at 1:51 PM, December 27th (Friday)]


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
doggiediva
♀ 33806
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

While you are in this period of time being dependent on WS is it possible to work toward training for or upgrading your skills to be in the workforce?

If your WS is unsupportive with you doing this, and wants you to remain dependent on him than he is shooting himself in the foot...

If or when D comes he can be forced to support you and your kiddos, until you get on your feet..

Many people including lawyers would advise you not to go back to work until you are D.. If your health or kid's health allows you the option to work outside the home, I think this decision boils down to what makes you feel the least stress and what gives you and the kiddos a better quality of life..It is hard to be present for the kids when you are feeling stressed about every area of your life..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 2:22 PM, December 27th (Friday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1336 | Registered: Nov 2011
cl131716
♀ 40699
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

While you are in this period of time being dependent on WS is it possible to work toward training for or upgrading your skills to be in the workforce?

I am applying to a nursing program in Feb, it will start next August. He has seemed to encourage me so far. Of course he encouraged me to get a job but I ended up quitting because his accusations weren't worth the paycheck.


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
doggiediva
♀ 33806
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm glad that you decided on nursing..It is an awesome field to go into..Lots of versatility in the specialties.. Magnet hospitals in very large urban areas tend to pay extremely well, offer flexibility in schedules, and good benefits :-) I recently retired from one of these hospitals..My pension will be paid to me for life, but it is only enough to support me..

If you R with your WS let me give you word of caution..Once you are a full fledged nurse and are able to support the whole household, don't make the mistake of encouraging or allowing your WS become a house husband.. It is easier to walk away from marriage and have a decent quality of life divorced if both spouses were/are independent financially and have a good support system of family or friends close by...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 2:21 PM, December 27th (Friday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1336 | Registered: Nov 2011
peoplepleaser
♀ 41535
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I start thinking it's ME, I can't let things go, I'm making mountains out of molehills, etc. I actually begin to feel guilty for suggesting he is still lying or hiding something."

I feel the same way. I start to feel bad about myself because I can't let it go. And WS contributes to that by getting defensive and telling me she's tired and frustrated and "wants to understand my process." Ugh. I'm sorry you are feeling that, too.


WS: 39
BS: 39
DS: 6
9 year relationship
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013 with TT
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011 with TT
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 813 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
OnTilt
♀ 34140
Member # 34140
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Cl,

The answer, unfortunately, is you don't. Your gut knows there is more, you said yourself in another post, what are the chances you uncovered everything there is to know on your own? You know the answer is slim to none.

You know my story so you know that even after 2 years I have not been able to 'move on'. It is a terrible way to live and I can't believe I haven't become physically ill or had a nervous breakdown because of it.

Thing is, it can go on and on and on. And you will have days in your future where you really feel you CAN move on, but then your gut will scream once again. He's not being open and honest, that you know and that is what your gut is telling you.

Believe me, I wish I could tell you that eventually your gut will quiet down, but I can't.

I do think you have to be very concerned that your wh has had questionable behaviors from the very beginning and throughout your marriage because you have not been married long. I have been with my wh for 20 years and until 2 years ago he NEVER gave me any cause for concern, and because I have been cheated on in the past (albeit a VERY long time ago and not with wh), I have a natural high alert.

So I would be concerned about that aspect regarding your wh which probably makes it best that you nip it in the bud now. Let's say best case scenario is he didn't cross 'that line', EVER. But he keeps flirting with it, seeing how far he can go, maybe even sticking a toe over once in awhile. How long do you think he will be able to keep that up?

Just keep reminding yourself he is not being honest, you know this already. If he were, your gut would not be screaming.

180, let him know you KNOW he is not being honest. HELL, tell him you found something that proves he is still holding back and that until your marriage is one based on honesty you are checking out of the marriage.

And now I am going to take my own advice!!!

You'll get there, you're a strong woman! (((HUGS)))


BS(Me), WH(Him) in our 50's
Status: I'm giving up on him

Posts: 379 | Registered: Dec 2011
cayc
♀ 21964
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The sad part is really our relationship began with cheating.

Then imho you are married to a philanderer/serial cheater who never won't be grooming an OW in some form or fashion regardless of whether he realizes that other relationship.

The clearest sign that a man or woman is incapable of being faithful? They have never not been cheating on you (whether EA or full on PA).

Whatever you do, base your decision on knowing this very simple fact.


"I'm not afraid of storms, for I'm learning how to sail my ship." - Louisa May Alcott

Posts: 3143 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
cl131716
♀ 40699
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Then imho you are married to a philanderer/serial cheater who never won't be grooming an OW in some form or fashion regardless of whether he realizes that other relationship.

Really, deep down I know this. I am just having a hard time accepting it. People like that rarely change, right? Even if they act remorseful and/or acknowledge FOO issues?


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
Lonelygirl10
♀ 39850
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I felt this way for months. I kept asking the same questions, and kept getting the same answers. I started to literally feel like I was losing my mind. He twisted everything I said around, and I felt like I was a horrible person for continuing to question him. I made a post asking how to move on while suspecting lies.

One day I caught him in a very minor lie. Instead of confronting him with it, I told him I had proof of a lie and that I would leave him unless he confessed it. He confessed soooo much stuff that had been bothering my gut for months. Every single thing that I was suspicious about, I was right. Literally every single thing. My gut is quiet now. I feel more peaceful than I have in the past year.

My advice is that your gut is probably right. It's ultimately your choice on whether to live your life feeling that way. I've been there, and I wouldn't want to do it again.

My wBF said he didn't confess it earlier because he thought confessing would make me leave him. Once he saw me leaving him anyway, he didn't have anything to lose by confessing. So you might have to leave before you get the full truth.


30 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1275 | Registered: Jul 2013
cl131716
♀ 40699
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I came across an article about philanderers and I came across this line. Some people are just so jealous that they enslave their partner while they secretly cheat behind their back, due to the fact they wouldn’t want to see their partner with someone else.

Actually makes me want to vomit irl. My heart sank as I read it because I really believe this is my WH.


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
cl131716
♀ 40699
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So you might have to leave before you get the full truth.

I did leave. It didn't work. He still maintained he didn't cheat. What boggles my mind is he fully confessed his EA/PA after he was caught by his ex-wife. Of course she was cheating too so maybe he felt comfortable in that regard because he wasn't the only one with dirty laundry.


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
Lonelygirl10
♀ 39850
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh ok, I don't know your story. What made you go back to him after you left?

I don't think there's anyway to quiet your gut. I tried for months, and couldn't. You just have to make a decision on whether you're willing to live feeling that way


30 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1275 | Registered: Jul 2013
cayc
♀ 21964
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Imho philanderers like to be married because they need to be thought of as good, kind, upstanding moral people AND they need a foil. They need someone to play the fool, to be their soft landing, so they can keep up with their dirty ways but never really have to commit fully (since the goal is to fill the void inside of them with a constant, steady stream of admiration). The way they rope you in is both with charm (which they tend to ooze) and that facade of being a good, kind, upstanding, moral person. They invest a lot into that personna. It's how they pull OW/OM.

I've never known a philanderer to give it up, that emptiness is never filled, there is not enough admiration in the world to fill it. That he cheated on his ex wife, he's cheating on you, this is who he is.

I suppose it's *possible* for a philanderer to reform, but it's not probable - it's so improbable that it might as well not be possible. How much do you want to hold out hope that you are that lucky one? What has he done to deserve that hope?

I know this is tough for you to get your head around, especially because deep down you've always known it but just didn't want to see it. Once I learned what I was married to I hoped for remorse. I hoped for him admitting it was just a sex addiction. Those things mean hope, chances at a cure and overcoming. But philanderers are their own special breed. For them, even remorse at hurting you isn't enough to overcome their need to fill that black hole inside of them.

[This message edited by cayc at 4:43 PM, December 27th, 2013 (Friday)]


"I'm not afraid of storms, for I'm learning how to sail my ship." - Louisa May Alcott

Posts: 3143 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
cl131716
♀ 40699
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One day I caught him in a very minor lie. Instead of confronting him with it, I told him I had proof of a lie and that I would leave him unless he confessed it.

Well I just realized I caught him in a lie. I reread the timeline he gave me. I remember him telling me that him and the girl he met up with in the beginning of the relationship met at target one day and she kissed him on the CHEEK. I just reread it and he said they kissed on the LIPS, just a peck. He tried to play this off as happening in August (before we were together) but I know for a fact it happened in October after dating me for two months. SMH I may be able to use that. I want to know but then again I don't really care. I think I'm done. Time to 180 until I get on my feet and then kick him to the curb.

[This message edited by cl131716 at 5:12 PM, December 27th (Friday)]


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
Topic Posts: 23
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