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Ok so this is my first post but I have been reading posts to help me..thanks! Dday was nov.6th I found out about via very detailed texts that just broke my heart cause it was an emotional affair as well as a torrid sexual one. Ow was an engaged employee of his half his age. It was a months long affair. As you all know it was like he died that night I found out. We had been the exception to the rule soul mates and all that crap. My heartache almost killed me I got very ill and had to be hospitalized. He acted very remorseful and said it was over blah blah blah..i called the ow and she cried and said sorry and it was over yada yada..Anyway I was just so very sad more than mad and something strange happened that I never expected. I forgave him and felt unconditional love for him and was hopeful of R changing our marriage for the better. Well not much time went on and he was being much kinder and loving but was not doing very much to make me feel secure like taking the password off his phone and I was upset and getting suspicious behaviors again like snooping..which led to the discovery of a conf.number of a local hotel. I called and they said he stayed dec 14th, a weekend he was supposed to be out of town for a sport team thing. He got all crazy and mad and gave me some story that was ridiculous about why he made the reservation but did not stay there. I told him I called hotel and they had him in the computer as checked in and checked out the following morning, he said they are mistaken I said prove it etc. Then I said I want to seperate cause this was crazy..one day later was his b day and he said he was going to his longtime friend's house to commiserate about what an asshole he was, acting all mopey and saying he wasn't going to celebrate because he fucked up everything etc. Well I just had a feeling, so that night I drove around and there his car was outside the ow house. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised but I was not sad anymore I was filled with such anger..I texted him and told him to come outside and face me like a man etc. He had turned his phone off for sex so.. I also left a note on his car. This time he couldn't come up with some story. I said I wanted a divorce and I have been crying ever since. He is saying he doesn't want one and wants to stay together. Here's the pathetic part I miss him and my kids miss him and I don't really want this, who the hell does but I just don't think he will ever change. What do you think?

[This message edited by whereismylove at 12:57 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)]

I'm not married but I would file for divorce and proceed like he will never change and see what he does. If he can't stop seeing the ow then you can't reconcile. Once my fiancé realized I would really leave him if the ck tact continued he made the choice to end countact with her. He won't discontinue contact until he wants to but you moving forward like you don't plan to be with him might cut through the fog he's in. Right now he doesn't seem capable of comprehending the pain that he is causing you and his family because he is only thinking of himself. My fiancé said he was this way while cheating too. So you starting taking action for you and your kids.

[This message edited by anonymous823 at 12:40 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)]

The other thing is that if he was awesome besides this I would have a hard decision to make. However, prior to the affair he was getting inc. more grouchy and putting everyone and everything before his family. We were always the last priority and his frustrations of life we were made to bear. He used to be a wonderful husband and father but the past year and half just not so. I had considered divorce before this but.. he is what you call and EU spouse and also a bit narcissitic or self absorbed I dont know. He had a really awful childhood and a terrible role model of a father who ran all around on his mom and expected her to be at his beck and call. He always hated how his father was awful to his mom but now he does it to me?! What I'm saying is that he would have to have a complete personality change for a R to work, am I just crazy to hope for a miracle? And why the hell can't I just let go? I was all ready and then he said that if i filed paperwork he wouldn't sign the divorce papers cause he loves me and will fight for our marriage blah blah blah..

[This message edited by whereismylove at 1:07 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)]

Thanks anonymous I guess I never considered that he was still in the fog..maybe he will never get out that's what scares me.

You need to back off and do the 180.

If he is still seeing OW you are NOT in R.

All he is doing is cake eating!

The more you stay at his beck and call during the next few months the more likely it will be that he will continue having his A.

His moping (yawn) on his birthday and saying he feels so crap he is going to go stay with his friend is classic wayward behaviour. They NEED to get out of the house somehow on special occasions and it's either a "Damn you - I am so mad at you right now I am leaving to clear my head!" or it's a "Boo- look at me (self pity faker) I am such a crappy person who doesn't deserve you... I will leave for a bit to sort my crap out!"

The second scenario works better than the argument one because you will think they are really all in and will feel sorry for them AND they get to screw the AP knowing you're at home all cut up about their angst rather than getting angry about an argument!!!

180 this guy and reduce the length of your suffering.

[This message edited by MrsDoubtfire at 2:04 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)]

Omg mrs doubtfire you are right on! Im glad I asked for advice its enlightening to hear what others have to say. What do you mean by a 180?

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

Here is the link to the 180. You can find it (and other really helpful stuff) in the Healing Library under BS FAQs which you will find by clicking on it at the top left of the screen.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:37 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)]

Mrsdoubtfire is spot on! She described my fws to a T! While in false R he was mopy, grumpy, self pitying and would say he was going to friends house to sort things out. All of this while telling me he loved me didn't want a D and swore things were over with ow.

Whereismylove you need to 180 hard. False R is the worst kind of hell. 180, 180, 180! The 180 saved my marriage. Please take care of yourself by eating, exercising and doing things for you. I must say, the one thing I regret from this period of time, was letting my ws back in the house too soon. When he was gone, I took care of me, did simple things like shopping w/ friends, and got closer to my kids than I had ever been. The kids were so wonderful. During yet another false R, on our 11 th anniversary, I put kids in bed early so I could have a special meal w/ Daddy. The kids were as excited as I was and they even helped cook and set table. He left again that night to be with ow ( lied and said needed to go to friends to " sort out his feelings" the kids heard me crying that night. They made a HUGE poster that said" mom is cool" and gave me breakfast in bed in the morning. From that moment on, I knew that the kids and I would make it with or without him. I didn't care if we ended up in a one bedroom apt all sleeping in one bed it would be better than this hell. My fws actually took this poster and got it framed for me for my Christmas present this year..

Anyway, you need to 180 to slap him out of the fog. Will he change? I don't know, you can't change him you can only change you. Be strong, if you don't feel strong .. Fake it in front of him! The worst thing you can do is show weakness. Showing strength was the turning point for me and my ws. They do not feel bad or sad or any remorse when they see us upset or crying when in this fog. They just see us as pathetic. When I threw mine out along with all of his stuff and made it clear that I never wanted to see him again... And really meant it! He finally pulled his head out if his ass.. And worked his tail off to get me to let him back.He is perfect in ( almost) every way now. Our marriage is actually better now than it was pre- A.. Other than my mind movies.

Good luck to you. Stay strong for your babies!

Being in a fog is pretty hard to come out of. You have been the 'foe' and she's been the 'friend'! Seems like some steps need to be taken prior to implementing this 180 deal? First getting his re-committed.

I would very much suggest that you also go over to the Just Found Out forum where you can get some more immediate help for your situation. You're really not in R because he's not committed to you. Also, due to the forum rules, it's easier to call a spade a spade over there.

Thank you all so much for your advice. I know now that we were never in reconciliation In my mind I was ready for it and thought he was too. What's it called when the affair continues but one person thinks the affair is over and things are moving forward? So my WS is saying he wants to fight for the marriage and doesn't ever want to end it and still grow old together, etc. I have already said no im getting paperwork in order for a divorce. I love him and want to keep the fam. together but I don't really see how. Do you think there is really anyway to salvage the marriage or is it time to just move on? Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

[This message edited by whereismylove at 4:56 AM, January 1st (Wednesday)]

WhereismyLove, The Reconciliation board is probably the last one you should be posting on, unfortunately. As another poster said, Just Found Out would be a better place for you to start. You're not in anything even remotely considered reconciliation.

Your D-days were only within the last month or so - it's impossible to even BEGIN reconciling with someone who has zero remorse AND is still very blatantly involved in his affair.

Crying, begging, and pleading is the last thing you need to be doing. The dead LAST thing.

Also, he can proclaim all he wants that he won't sign the divorce papers - you don't NEED his signature and if you decide to divorce, it will just take a bit longer without his cooperation. But it will happen whether he wants it to or not. This jerk really needs to be brought down a few pegs because he thinks HE'S the one controlling this whole situation.

He's not. Not if you don't LET him.

Hanging around in the background wringing your hands and waiting for him to make all the decisions needs to stop now. It's not working for you and leaves you in a puddle of helpless despair. Time to take the reins and control your own destiny.

He's no longer in charge. He gave up that privilege by being a horse's ass and choosing his affair over his wife and family. You can call it 'fog' but the simple truth is that he's a selfish, self-absorbed, self-entitled horse's ass whose only interested in pleasing himself - at the cost of everyone else. He's only looking out for Number #1 now, so you need to look out for YOU and yours.

And lastly, I find his proclamations of, "I want to fight for the marriage!" laughable - especially when he's sneaking over to his OW's house and having sex with her on his birthday, and lying to you and claiming he was going to his buddy's house so they could discuss what an asshole he is. Well, at least he got the 'asshole' part right. His actions CLEARLY don't even begin to align with his words, so anything he says has zero merit when he clearly ISN'T backing it up with actions.

So, as the new leader of YOUR life, what will you choose to do first in order to set yourself on the right path? The 180 is a great place to start.

Good luck to you.

(whereismylove)

Just Found Out is a great forum for you right now....R is a supportive forum, but right now you need to just feel. Don't need any choice-deciding advice....just need to be still and....feel.

Having said that....here is just a small bit of advice....though I want to give lots of advice in hopes of comforting you. But that would be a vane attempt....adultery IS trauma. Right now you just need to assess the WORST damage.

Mrs. Doubtfire is wise....read and re-read her truth filled post.

Here's the pathetic part I miss him and my kids miss him and I don't really want this, who the hell does

Be gentle on yourself. You are NOT pathetic. This is TRAUMATIC. It was FORCED on you by your husband. It is the deepest betrayal one human can do to another....period. Not blakesteeles opinion, it is factual in nature and well studied by pHds. Read 17 infidelity books...you will find so much of your journey is textbook. Doesn't make it any less painful, but you will start to normalize what you are feeling. Normalize, not minimize. That is one of the keys to this.

You may be under the false impression that you and your husband are in this together. I know I was. My wife took her EA to PA level AFTER we were in weekly MC and IC, her sister was her accountability partner, and two close friends who live out of state traveled to support her as she moved away from adultery. I, unfortunately, treated adultery in the same vein as if my wife had a serious illness. I was so not part of a M at that time...my M died when my wife chose to fuck another man. Crass to state this...but adultery is crass.

I say unfortunately....because by MY own choice I subjected myself to more pain...really moving pain into the suffering category. Suffering is pain without any growth potential. And I did that to me. I encourage you to avoid my mistakes.

but I just don't think he will ever change.

This is the traumatic part in full swing.

After 4 months of weekly IC sessions I really started to understand PTSD. I only had PTSD-like symptoms....but one of those symptoms is over-simplifying what the future looks like. Black and white thinking, all good all bad. You are trying to make sense of what he has done, is doing, is capable of doing, etc.. This is normal because your mind is wrestling with the fact that your M and family have been hurt and you are trying to figure out the extent of the threat.

It is tough for your mind to accept that the damage came from the one person on the planet that vowed in front of God to protect and cherish you. You, like I, WANTED to believe your spouse was simply caught up and innocently choose adultery....but NOW the facts are that even when light has been shone on the sin your husband choose to continue his sin, continue to damage you....even after YOU thought this was a team effort.

Right now it is NOT a team effort. It is you protecting yourself and your family from your husband.

In my sitch...my wifes A ended when I brought reality to her fAP front porch late at night. He folded like a cheap card table. This is the type of man my wife choose....continue to choose over me and our family. That was tough to accept.

So much of this is tough to accept.

You don't have to stay M. Even the bible gives one exception to D...and it is in cases of adultery.

But even if you choose D you will have to accept that you just experienced some of the most severe trauma a person can experience within a marriage.

IMPORTANT: You don't have to accept this RIGHT NOW!

Acceptance, like so much of this journey, is not a finite decision....it is a process.

Right now....pay attention to Mrs. Doubtfires post....what she advises to do will help you get to that point where you can tend to yourself....feel what you need to feel...feel what you may not WANT to feel, but you will need to feel it.

It is a good sign that you felt anger already. My co-dependent nature (which I never thought was a part of me...many surprises along this journey) tried to block me from feeling. Took me 2 months post DD to feel anger...then 3 months after that I entered my RAGE phase........

But that story and the wisdom I gained from it is for a later date.

Post often....find members whose sitch is similar to yours and it will help you with this very necessary but very lonely solo start to this long journey.

God be with you both, whereismylove and mr whereismylove.

FYI....the whole my-husband-will-never-change thought?

I had that. It COULD be true in your case....but I will tell you I strongly thought that in my case. My wife was risking EVERYTHING for her fAP....a married, father of 5, local business owner. The chance of them actually having the fantasy life my wife was telling herself they could have was slim to none. Since their A ended it has been reported that my wife was not his first and he is onto another woman within months of dumping my wife.

In my sitch....my wife DID change....her fAP has not.

In my sitch...my wifes fog was thick, lasted 3 months AFTER the last NC was broken. She has NOT been the model fWS, but she has changed. We are 17 months out now.

I stumbled, so has my wife.....we continue to stumble occasionally. But we are finally in R.

So don't make decisions on what the future holds NOW. Assumptions are not good things to act on. We did that all too often in our pre-A M. Was not healthy.

NOTE: Don't spend too much time on pre-A M issues now...that time will come later. Nothing you did or did not do caused your husband to choose as he did. You had zero input on his decision to commit adultery. You didn't mention it, but I doubt he ever asked you....

Hey, I met this other woman....I am thinking of fucking her...you cool with that?

Since you were not consulted on his decision you have no dog in that fight. That is all him.

In fact, your sitch is similar to mine in that our spouses choose, blatantly choose their AP over us and our family.....it was intentional.

Pretty normal experience really....it is a rare WS that really chooses their BS and their family immediately. It does happen...but my experience and observations of others experiences appears to point to what our spouses decided to do is pretty typical.

You will continuously wonder how your husband could gamble and spend so much.....to get so little. But this too is normal.

God help us all....there is a normality about adultery that is both comforting and disturbing. It is so NOT unique. Our pain is not unique. The feelings APs have for each other is not unique. The journey to adultery is not unique. The journey away from adultery is not unique.

God be with us all.

"Where is My Love"

It may be best to move to the other forum - but being one that cheated - I would suggest you do something to gain his attention and in parallel - prepare for him to leave (divorce and kick his ass out). Course, if the OW is single - he has a soft place to land - her arms. If not - then who knows. I'm a 'romantic' - I always hope for the best - sometimes the best is something we can't readily accept!!

but being one that cheated - I would suggest you do something to gain his attention and in parallel - prepare for him to leave (divorce and kick his ass out)

I may be reading your intent wrong here, Manningup, but I vehemently disagree with the first part of this statement.

It is not on whereismylove to draw her wayward's attention back to her. This is NOT some contest between her and the OW.

Whereismylove - take care of you and your kids. Put all your focus there. Read up on the 180 and work to put it into practice. Remember, the 180 is not about punishing your WH. It's purpose is to strengthen YOU.

(((((whereismylove)))))

[This message edited by nowiknow23 at 12:04 PM, January 1st (Wednesday)]

know 23,

What I'm TRYING to say is that she needs to let him know she's serious. I get the sense he's under the impression he can have his cake and eat it too.

Got it. Thanks for clarifying that, Manningup.

No problem know23 (or NIK). I'm often misunderstood. Only here to help!

[This message edited by Manningup26 at 1:28 PM, January 1st (Wednesday)]

What did you mean by "gain his attention", manningup26?

I completely agree that action needs to be taken to halt his cake eating... and I usually recommend ultimatums you are ready to back or the 180 in order to protect yourself while buying some time to think.

IMPORTANT: You don't have to accept this RIGHT NOW!

Acceptance, like so much of this journey, is not a finite decision....it is a process.

You are not pathetic. You are on the same road we all are, trying to do your best. Cut yourself some slack and breathe as you figure out what to do next. We're here for you.

(((whereismylove)))