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MairISaoirse posted 1/1/2014 17:01 PM

there is a thread going on in the General section, and this quote from it i feel seems like a good place to start where I wanted to go

you reconcile. Guess what? The waywards go out and do it again

I know there are many waywards that never stray again after D-Day, and then there are those who "relapse", so to speak.

I, at this point in time, am convinced I will never cheat again. I don't just say it though, I really do think that and wholeheartedly feel that. I'm convinced that I will never cheat again. I want to change and do the work to become the better person that I want to be, and I'm working towards that daily. I never want to cause anyone the pain that i caused my BF, and I honestly never want to feel this way again. I'm now actively making choices to prevent any circumstances that may ever lead up to any infidelity again on my part

Is that naive?

my question is, are there waywards out there who have felt this way, but later on ended up cheating again anyway? and if you dont mind telling your stories, what are the reason(s) why you think you ended up reverting to infidelity again?

Daisy1967 posted 1/1/2014 17:12 PM

I think that is bullshit that one will always do it again and again.

And honestly, although Waywards are ultimately to blame for the affair, I also think that when you are constantly neglected and mistreated, maybe you get desperate and do stupid shit.

Not an excuse but a reason. And I know I will get jumped on for blaming my DH. I really don't. I know I could have chosen differently and should have. But the breakdown of the entire marriage is not entirely due to my A. It has been going on for years.

Mrs Panda posted 1/1/2014 17:46 PM

Yes. I cheated on my first boyfriend and in several after that. And then in my M. See my tag line.

After I cheated in my M, I vowed never ever again. I never confessed back then and never addressed my shit.

With my M on the line and coming face to face with the horror of what I had done, I finally had to address 20 years of entitled bad behavior, shame, and coping strategies.

So I was "sure" I would never cheat again. I white-knuckled it and changed nothing.

But now I have changed. I faced the demons. I would sooner cut off my arm than go through this again. I don't see it anymore as something to tuck away and keep . It is real. It is lifechanging.

SlowUptake posted 1/1/2014 17:48 PM

Sorry for the t/j MairISaoirse.

Hi Daisy

Since you asked, I'll bite.

Not an excuse but a reason.

Even though every other person on this site says the exact opposite you still maintain this stance.
For your own sake, let it go or keep it to yourself, because you are never going to get any sympathy for this perspective. Or is it you like the attention? Mmmmm, something to think about.

Please understand, if I ignored you and didn't bite, it would mean I didn't care about your well being.

end t/j. Move along. Nothing to see here.

Mrs Panda posted 1/1/2014 17:50 PM

I also think that when you are constantly neglected and mistreated, maybe you get desperate and do stupid shit.

@daisy. This is classic blameshifting. There are many choices besides cheating. Cheating is a cowardly way of coping and speaks to the weaknesses of the perpetrator, not the BS. A bad M is an excuse, not a reason.

RegretfulHusband posted 1/1/2014 18:24 PM

Hi MairISaoirse.

While I totally understand Diasy1967's perspective, I think it's a matter of the person.

I myself have been in multiple circumstances (two physical and others that came too close), and feel as you do, that this time it's not just words, it's truth.

I know that sounds like a cliche, but I have never felt this actual, physical, NEED to be honest in all things as I do now.

So I think that if a person can come to a point where they can overcome their own selfishness (and I say that because that's what it was for me), and see the person they really want to be, that they can and will change.

I can't say that something could never happen again. BUT, I CAN say that I will never put myself in a situation again where that temptation would be there.

When I go on Business Trips, I will go to my work, and go to my hotel - nowhere else. when I think of temptation, I will picture the pain in my wife's eyes and the hurt in her voice when I confessed what I had done.

Recently, I was on a business trip post-affair (wife approved trip), and the guys that were hosting me for dinner suggested a strip club. Without hesitation, I said "Sorry guys, but absolutely not. I have my personal rules, and that's one of them (now)."

So in short, it's up the person. If you WANT to change and be faithful and honest, you can do it - but for me, it took a true "aha" moment before I could get there.

scared&stronger posted 1/1/2014 19:32 PM

I can't say I believe every WS cheats again but I believe the majority do. JMO.

longroadhome posted 1/1/2014 19:43 PM

My story is similar to Mrs Panda- cheated in my first marriage, never confessed, never was discovered, never dealt with my issues...BUT also never considered whether I would do it again or not. I just tried to leave it behind me and not deal with anything.

Not only did I cheat again, but it was with the same op as the first time. Totally broken, unhealthy, shitty coping skills...all because I didn't deal with my shit.

So yes, after seeing the damage, doing (and continuing to do) the work on me, digging, experiencing the pain I caused Mrs LRH and myself, yes, I am sure to the depths of my soul that I won't do it again. The trick is to recognize that you're susceptible, that your choices are the same as they've always been. The fact that I'm aware that I'm capable of causing this much damage is a big part of what keeps me alert to prevent it.

Is that naive?

It doesn't have to be. You are capable of doing it again, so do something about it. Dig, work, stay vigilant, repair your boundaries, develop self respect. Be the person you aspire to be, and if that person isn't a cheater, then you won't cheat again.

Daisy1967 posted 1/1/2014 20:00 PM

I am not seeking attention from anyone. Just giving a different perspective. People are always asking "why". I am not saying my "why" was the right thing. Far from it.

I don't need sympathy from anyone, nor am I seeking it either. I am actually doing quite well today. We don't fight as much and I don't ask anything of him. We coexist.

You think I have not agonized over my mistakes? I am the worst at beating myself up.

I blame myself for the A. However, I do not, nor will I ever, blame myself entirely for the breakdown of the marriage. Ever. He did a hell of a lot to me. My problem is, I dealt with it in a totally shitty and ugly way, instead of like an adult. I was totally selfish. I was worse than he was.

But I am getting my punishment. I will forever be punished here. Another A? Hell no. I could not possibly care less if I ever touch a man again. It hurts too much.

Yeah, I know, I deserve it.

Stillstings posted 1/1/2014 20:28 PM

No stop sign so I'll have my say. I forgave my XWSO once. He just got better at hiding things and did it again. Turned it on me so it was my fault because I didn't validate him or whatever bullshit excuse he threw and she was so amazing. Done.

Same thing DH went through with his own cheating XSO before we met. She made him think it was his fault. When he forgave and took her back she pulled the same shit and exposed him to diseases during her 2nd round of cheating.

At the end of the day? I don't know if once a cheater always a cheater is true but I know I will never give a 2nd chance. Go take your risk with another person. Not me.

atsenaotie posted 1/1/2014 20:58 PM


And honestly, although Waywards are ultimately to blame for the affair, I also think that when you are constantly neglected and mistreated, maybe you get desperate and do stupid shit.

FWW said similar the first year after dday before she started really working with her IC. She felt neglected, mistreated, and entitled, but it was her perceptions that were off, not how she was being treated. I am not saying that is the truth in all cases, but while perception is reality, it is not THE reality if the perception is not based in reality.

floridaredman posted 1/1/2014 21:01 PM

I blame myself for the A. However, I do not, nor will I ever, blame myself entirely for the breakdown of the marriage. Ever. He did a hell of a lot to me. My problem is, I dealt with it in a totally shitty and ugly way, instead of like an adult. I was totally selfish. I was worse than he was.

Now this is what I call owning your fecal matter.

No you are not responsible for the breakdown of the entire marriage, Just the affair you brought to it. He was wrong for what he did, as are you. But you know that

Stillstings posted 1/1/2014 21:07 PM

No you are not responsible for the breakdown of the entire marriage, Just the affair you brought to it.

So very true. An affair is the bad and multiple CHOICES of one person. It took me years to understand my WSO's CHOICES (read not decisions or mistakes) were because he had poor boundaries and a lack of accountability.

SlowUptake posted 1/1/2014 21:08 PM

Sorry for the t/j again MairISaoirse.

Hi again Daisy

Yeah, I know, I deserve it.

No you don't.

I think there may be some communication breakdown here.

When posters ask you for your 'whys' they are not meaning "What was wrong with your marriage?"

Given that you willfully chose to cheat, what was the defect in your character/integrity that allowed you to make such an obviously immoral choice, instead of a moral one in response to your bad marriage.
That is the 'why' they speak of.

I hope this helps, because I can see your hurting.

end t/j

Daisy1967 posted 1/2/2014 06:22 AM

I guess I just wanted love. I have never felt totally loved. There are so many conditions and rules and bullshit with my husband.

I was weak and stupid.

I would like to know the defect in the character of a man who neglects his spouse too. That would be an interesting study, I think. The "I don't want you but no one else can have you" trick. Love it.


I cannot fix him. I can only fix me. Working on it.

SlowUptake posted 1/2/2014 06:39 AM

I cannot fix him. I can only fix me. Working on it.

It's good to see you getting there.


DessieLessie posted 1/3/2014 06:20 AM

Is that naive?

No, I don't think so. I think a lot of remorseful waywards never backslide. I might even go so far as to say that an introspective wayward, having cheated once, can recognise the causes and warning signs, knows why it's such a horrible thing to do, and what safeguards need to be in place to stop it. Does that make sense?

Fifteen + years ago I cheated on an ex boyfriend. The relationship didn't survive the experience. In hindsight it was an exit affair. When I confessed, ex-Bf thought the relationship could still work and he was shocked, cried, was torn apart by it and honestly just thinking of that moment makes me wish never for a repeat performance.* It was one of the most awful experiences I ever had.

Nowadays I work in a male dominated field and play online games so there are opportunities to develop friendships with men. Unfortunately, not all men respect that a woman is married. That's how my cheating in the previous relationship started out. Sometimes the conversations come close to the boundaries of friendship and instead of indulging them (as I did in that previous case) I think of that DD and apply the brakes. I try to always think 'How would my husband feel if he read/overheard this discussion?' If a guy is a repeat offender, I dial back the friendship to being coolly polite. We've been married for four years and together for almost seven and in that time I haven't felt the temptation to wander.

If I was to hazard a guess I would put you at low risk of repeating your past behaviour. You're young, you made a mistake, you recognise that it was wrong to do and you're committed to never repeating it.

* Came to find out after that relationship ended that he had been sleeping with another woman for more than six months before I strayed. Even though it was over I still felt like I'd been punched in the gut. I'd rather die than do that to my husband, another reason I will never cheat.

Prayingforhope posted 1/3/2014 07:58 AM

People can change if they want to change.

Waywards that are overwhelmed with guilt and shame and do the hard work, therapy and behavioral changes required CAN change.

I for one will NEVER hurt my BS again because I can't imagine putting her in that much pain AGAIN. I was naive to not think my A would hurt her in the first place, but now i KNOW. To go out and do it again would be me complete destruction for us both.

Plus the kids...I NEVER considered ONCE what my A would do to the kids and now I risk them being raised WITHOUT ME. I would NEVER risk that again and every day I wake up fighting for the right to live with them again.

That being said, no one should expect a different result if everything stays the same. If the Wayward changes nothing, why wouldn't they cheat again? It's like expecting an alcoholic to be sober, even though they still hang out in bars...

longroadhome posted 1/3/2014 09:19 AM

Waywards that are overwhelmed with guilt and shame

Be careful with this. Guilt and shame have their place and serve their purpose in a healthy person, but becoming overwhelmed by them simply makes them another bad coping mechanism. To be bogged down in guilt and shame is to still be selfish. Guilt and shame are all about you and how terrible you feel. You can't help your BS heal if you're stuck in a shame spiral.

Feel the guilkt and shame, then let it go and do something to make yourself the kind of person who doesn't need to feel guilt and shame.

Prayingforhope posted 1/3/2014 09:37 AM

Thanks longroadhome, I agree with that. I also like the idea of using my guilt and shame short-term as motivators in my IC and MC in order become the type of spouse my BS deserves and could love again...

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