[This message edited by grains at 2:25 AM, January 3rd (Friday)]
"Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past."
I would like to ask for advice specially from a BS on what are the ways a WS can show remorse and what actions show the urgent need to make amends.
My BS and I have a deal. She tells me specifically what she wants.
If I fail to provide it, that's on me. And I cop the consequences.
If I do provide it but she's just not feeling it, that's on her. And I recieve a 'get outta jail free card'.
Just something to ponder.
"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras
There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
[This message edited by grains at 2:57 AM, January 3rd (Friday)]
Would it be too much for me to tell her everyday?
You may get sick of me saying this. Ask her not us.
This may sound really stupid, but I bought dog food yesterday. I have never bought dog food in my life but I wake up every day and I think "how can I help my BS" and guess what popped in my mind - dog food.
She buys bags that are 10 kilos each (heavy), I had no idea, and all this time she is lugging these things around with NO HELP AT ALL.
When the fog lifts and the shame sets in, it's amazing how many ways there are to help your wife...
Maybe I need the impending reality of her leaving me to make me feel the urgency.
I would just say that if this is how you feel....you need her to leave to feel urgency.....you really don't get it. That is what I would and do think.
Met when we were 17 and 15. Together since 1983, married since 1985. Two kids, B21, G15.
Life has a way of making us get our panties in a wad.....I refuse to wear panties ever again.
Perhaps your BS does not trust what you are saying, since as a WS you proved yourself untrustworthy. For my BS, I think (still trying to figure this out and get to remorse) it lies in my actions and also the non-verbal communication between us.
In Janis Springs "After the Affair" she has a section on rebuilding trust. She speaks of "low-cost" and "high cost" actions for regaining trust. these actions show your BS you are sorry and are willing to do something about it. It is different for every case and your BS may not be willing to help you figure this out. Why should she, since she doesn't trust you. It depends on the BS SlowUptake mentions that he acts directly and his BS will tell him, that's good, but that's not my case. It took me 6 years and finally figured it out in marriage counselling.
For my BS she is extremely sensitive to non-verbal cues. I had a lot of resentment and anger and she could tell. The message that she got was, you must not be remorseful since I sense so much anger in you, these apologies must not be genuine. Therefore, she would not be able to trust me unless I worked out my anger and resentment issues at IC.
What I'm trying to say is that in some cases, Remorse can only be achieved after a lot of specific work that your BS can see.
Best of luck
Multiple EAs from the beginning, 1 EA after marriage
I agree that the biggest thing you can do to save your marriage is communicate with your wife - openly and honestly about everything - even if you fear the result of the talks. At this point you can't allow fear to determine your actions (if you are). I think the (literal) distance between you and the fact that your profile states that there is an OC from your affair already make your R challenging - certainly not unachievable, but challenging - so why do you think it is that you let yourself fall into complacency about your R?
grains, I'm almost afraid to post this because you have never (apart from in your profile) mentioned the OC aspect, and I appreciate that this is an extremely private matter, but because it is in your profile yet seems to be nowhere else - I have to ask do you and your wife talk about how you are each dealing with this? If not, do you think it's that you are afraid to open yourself up to the enormity of emotionally dealing with it between you? (I am not asking you to answer those questions here, I'm just throwing the question out for you to explore privately - if you haven't already) ...because the fact that you never mention it makes me wonder if you and your wife try to rugsweep this and haven't really dealt with it between you. Do you and your wife talk to each other with total and complete openness about that specific aspect of your affair? (and any continued personal contact you may have with the OW personally regarding this)- once again, I am not asking for you to answer here but to think about it if you aren't actually doing so, because you, your wife, and R, may all have needs about this that you are not addressing if you are not openly dealing with it between you. I truly do believe that honest and open communication between you and your wife (not us) about this is essential for the longterm success of your R. Once again though, please forgive me for bringing it up if you are already dealing with this.
The distance between you is another complicating factor - how long must this last? Is this distance temporary or going to be permanent unless one of you change or transfer jobs? Would either of you be willing to do that if it's possible? Do you ever talk about that between you? ...and finally, are you in professional personal counseling?
Grains, my best advice to you is to talk, talk, talk, to your wife honestly and openly about both of your needs and then follow through on your actions. Open yourself up, not only to her, but to yourself too (best done with a good counselor). Maybe you can't keep up with the following through of actions because you still have some walls up inside of yourself that you are trying to ignore and areas inside of yourself that you haven't truly explored.
ETA: Also grains, the fact that you and your wife were at such different places regarding where you thought your R was at, speaks of a lack of communication in general between you - no matter that you talk four times a day, it's what you are not saying that seems to be more important to set straight than the volume of your communication.
[This message edited by sinsof thefather at 4:42 AM, January 4th (Saturday)]
I did the 60 days of doing 3 things each day for my BS maybe about a year ago. It was a good thing and the idea was to develop a way of including that in my daily life. My BS pointed out that the things I did were not unachievable on a daily basis - hugging, warm, and tender emails, talking with empathy and concern. I certainly did not follow through after the 60 days. I reflect back on why and I think I treated it more as an experiment than developing an attitude and a way of behaving that will carry forward in my life. I will try it again with that in mind- developing an attitude, since yesterday, I will do 3 things each day with the focus on empathy for my BS and gaining remorse. One activity is posting on SI actively and it certainly helps in communicating with her and with myself.
The distance and temporary physical separation is difficult. My BS has just mentioned how inadequately I have approached the subject with her and that I need to understand that soon it will determine whether she will divorce with me. I know that it can be a positive factor in that it should motivate me to work harder towards reconciliation. It is so true that you will know the value of someone when they are not there. I am lucky that she still talks to me even when we are away from each other. Thank you for the insights. Please keep asking the questions. I will ask them too.
[This message edited by grains at 9:46 PM, January 4th (Saturday)]