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Wayward forum...finally had courage to go there.

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blakesteele posted 1/5/2014 21:06 PM

So my wife is not as big a fan of SI as I am. We have discussed this and I have modified how I operate on here. It is an evolving process....and the discussions have been good.

Recently my wife said she just hasn't felt the comfort I have. I asked her why she thought that was. She said the Wayward forum is not as active as the R forum, sees lots of people posting like she felt back when she was in her A and then in the fog afterwards....not much wisdom or comfort for her there. I asked her if she felt compelled to offer support or wisdom to those folks....she does not at this time.

So I wanted to see for myself what the Wayward Forum was like. I see a mix of folks there....I see what my wife was talking about.....some WS feeling around, seeing what they can take with them from their Wayward Thinking into R, and some pretty strong bricks being thrown. I do, however, see a few relationships that exist....fWS following each others journey like BS do.

Having spent less than 10 minutes in there (it was tough to see other WS struggling to tell the truth, to stop their affairs. I know they are really trying, it is just tough for me to read)....I pose this statement-question to the group.

It appears the Wayward Forum more closely resembles the Just Found Out forum.....kind of like two separate rooms for people just starting down the path to the R Forum. Is this an accurate interpretation?

It appears to me, having spent many hours in the R forum, that not only are fWS welcome...they are often greated with praise and admiration for their posts. Even when their posts talk very specifically about how they were thinking and acting while in their affairs. I see BS, myself included, occasionally pleading with fWS to chime in.

Seems like at some point, both BS and fWS move into the R forum......the BS using the General Forum when we just feel like venting, knowing we will likely get 2x4s....the fWS using the Wayward forum when they have tinges and tingles that liken back to their time in affair land.

For the record....I hardly go into Just Found Out forum. Too many folks doing and acting like I did upon my DD....naively ignorant. 17 months out and that pain is still too fresh for me to revisit.

God help us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 9:11 PM, January 5th (Sunday)]

unfound posted 1/5/2014 21:27 PM

There are some amazing WS's that post in the WS forum.

I can understand her viewpoint...too bad there's not a Wayward advanced forum (kidding mods!)

You know with a premium membership you can follow specific WS's that are further out and not in the early stages of their recovery/journey. (shameless plug) Would that help her insofar as reading, but filtering out the situations that might not be helpful to her?

SI isn't for everyone, but it's great that you've talked with her about it .

LetMeRollIt posted 1/5/2014 21:28 PM

I also find the wayward forum like their JFO. I look there occasionally, but I find it mostly makes me set expectations. A remorseful WS who posts, is really far along in the process, I think.

I also question my motives when I read Just Found Out. I think it is better for me to avoid it for a while. It really leads to my darkness at the moment.

Reconcilliation is where I read most, because its the battle i am currently fighting. I'm grateful for the positive stories.

Aubrie posted 1/5/2014 21:40 PM

FWW here.

When I first came to SI, I had some pretty unrealistic expectations. My husband wanted R, so in my mind, we were gung-ho R. Started posting in Recon within a couple weeks of arriving here. Yeah, not a good choice. I tucked tail and retreated back to the WS forum.

Part of my issue was, I resented my status. Who I was, what I'd become, and the "label" that came with it. I didn't want to be associated with the word "wayward" more than necessary.

I've been here 2+ years, and while I am in rock solid R with my amazing husband, the WS forum has become my home. I read all over the site, but rarely post in General or Recon. I've learned to embrace the WS forum. It's where I post 90% of the time.

SI is unique from other sites in that the WS forum is protected and moderated. Other sites get ahold of a WS and the blood baths ensue. I'm sure it's incredibly difficult for many BSs to read the garbage that is spewed from the WS. However, we have to work that garbage out of our systems. The other WS here can help us thru that process cause they've already been down that road. I'm grateful that MH and DS gave us FWS a safe place to work thru our issues.

The WS forum doesn't always move fast. I feel that it's mostly because there aren't a whole lot of WS in the world that want to fix their issues. And the people who do find the courage, are busy living the lives they have worked so hard to heal.

It is sometimes difficult to be in the WS forum. It's so sad to see new people come in, completely blind to their situations. It's sad to see people come, and after a couple posts, disappear forever. My heart breaks for every WS that comes into our forum and I pray that each one finds healing. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

mike7 posted 1/5/2014 21:51 PM

I continue to post in JFO but it triggers me and makes me angry. I post primarily to get the BS to be strong and show self-respect because I believe that you can't "nice" a WS back. I get frustrated when I see BS's begging and whining for their WS's to come to their senses. It's hard for me, but I think they need help.

I like to read the Wayward forum because of people like Aubrey. I like to see waywards that are on their way to R because it let's me see things how my ww might. But I trigger there a lot too. I get angry with the rubbish that get's spewed by WWs who defend their APs and think it's best not to tell their BH's.

I got banned from posting there because I was swinging 2x4's. I was trying to help, but I think I was getting too vindictive. I remember a WS man who had been married for 2 years and had had 5 affairs. he was crying about how he loved his BW more than anything. I asked him, "honestly, if she forgives you, won't you just start another affair in a year or so? Are you kidding yourself?" I was being sincere and asking him to actually evaluate his body of work.

And sometimes I trigger here.

There's a WW that admitted that her two APs had a bigger package than her BH and that because of that, she could orgasm almost instantly, like hitting a switch. And then she lamented that her BH was crushed. Well, no fucking kidding! It was the most emasculating thing I'd read. And yet she hopes to R. I think that if she actually loved him at all she should just leave him and let him live a life without her. I certainly couldn't live with her, kids or not, after a confession like that. But I guess it's not my problem.

DixieD posted 1/5/2014 21:51 PM

I've rarely read in JFO, and have only posted in there twice I think.

I gravitated to the WS forum from the beginning. A very codependent (fixer) and opinionated as hell, so it seemed like the perfect fit. Still surprised I didn't get kicked out of there. I wrote well worded 2x4's I guess. I still write out posts but rarely hit submit -- I'm working on that codependent need to point out the 'problem'.....just listen to me dammit attitude.

I could also identify a lot of my own Wayward traits, and I'm a sucker for the underdog. And luckily for me, I became very good friends with a fWW through our communication in that forum, which included some 2x4's.

My husband rarely posts. If he does it's usually in WS when the post really grabs him and he can't contain himself.

Brandon808 posted 1/5/2014 21:52 PM

I see the parallel in that new WS members come in and WS who have been members and BTDT do what they can to help them out.

RidingHealingRd posted 1/5/2014 22:34 PM

For the record....I hardly go into Just Found Out forum. Too many folks doing and acting like I did upon my DD....naively ignorant.


I prefer to look at this group of people as:

Deeply hurt and in need of whatever support/insight one can offer them. Never do I avoid this forum.

[This message edited by RidingHealingRd at 12:02 AM, January 6th (Monday)]

Kelany posted 1/5/2014 23:08 PM

I actually dip my toe quite a bit in the wayward forum. It the beginning (I didn't find SI until I was 7 months out from DDay1) I went to see the thought process. I think within a few short days I had PM'd Aubrie about a post she made and she responded and we had a nice conversation and she answered a few questions I had.

Anyhow, there have been so many insightful posts in there, especially the ones that get bumped for new WS. I would e-mail those to my husband and ask, is this what it was like for you? Does this explain how you feel because I can kind of understand this thought process. The Life Boat one stood out a lot to me and I specifically sent that to him. (He isn't a forum kind of guy, but will read e-mails I send him with stuff to read). It actually helped open up another line of communication between us.

There are times that sure, I'd LOVE to respond to a stop sign post and I have to sit on my hands. However I respect the rules, and I really don't want to get kicked, LOL And then there are some I just shake my head.

I do go into JFO here and there.

I also go into D/S too, I think originally I went in to follow the Abbondad saga and NatureGirl, then started reading everyone, and the people there have really grown on me, and I like just checking up on them, even though I'm not divorcing. I've only posted a couple times there.

Lostinthismess posted 1/5/2014 23:43 PM

Amazingly enough, wayward forum might be the only reason I am still married. I read it everyday. This probably shows my own faults, but I don't trust a single damn bs that says their wayward has changed. Only if I read their words. There are waywards that I don't believe for a second. And it validates my ability to trust myself if that makes sense? Because I was blindsided by dday. No fucking clue. I feel like I don't have that 'I'll know if he cheats again and leave' protection. I'm building it now. I'm not strong enough for jfo. I would tell every one of them to leave because deep down that's what I still want to do. I think a mark of my healing will come when I can offer anything to a new bs.
Funny how we each interpret 'progress'.

pointofnoreturn posted 1/5/2014 23:51 PM

The wayward forum has been a really good place for me to help cope with my anxiety. Just having other people hear and understand really helps.

The replies I get are non-judgmental. Well, if they are, it's to help I mean. Before I found SI, any kind of reach or cry for help was met with "go die" or "just break up with him since you're a piece of shit".

I'm thankful that these boards are here, and I'm thankful that the members here can be blunt within good reason. Thanks guys.

bionicgal posted 1/6/2014 13:38 PM

I read Recon first, then Wayward. Sometimes I read really wise stuff from waywards to show my H, and sometimes I just like reading reformed waywards bonk the newbies on the head with a fog-busting 2x4. I find that cathartic!

I think we are all just people -- waywards did a bad thing, but doesn't everyone love a good redemption story? I know I do!

[This message edited by bionicgal at 1:39 PM, January 6th (Monday)]

ascian posted 1/6/2014 13:52 PM

SI is unique from other sites in that the WS forum is protected and moderated. Other sites get ahold of a WS and the blood baths ensue.

This is the specific reason that I have stayed at SI when I've drifted away from other infidelity support forums. While I may move in and out on how much I feel like talking at any given time, the support given to all parties who're willing to work on themselves and their relationship here is what keeps me around and what prompted me to donate to the site.

rachelc posted 1/6/2014 14:00 PM

a lot of the experienced waywards are SO GOOD at administering 2X4s that the new waywards don't really realize what's happening. I mean really, you can't argue with someone who has experience and is now out of the fog and has lived recovery for a few years.

Some of the newbies start with their, "yeah buts..."and there is nothing they can say to make what they did ok. And they quickly realize it.
Yay to all those experienced waywards posting on that forum - paying it back and maybe getting the wayward to realize the nuclear bomb they detonated in their marriage earlier than it would be if there was no SI.

1owner posted 1/6/2014 14:05 PM

I agree with Mike7...Aubrie is awesome to read.

blakesteele, I read your posts often as well.

I read through JFO, General, and Recon as well. If someone is posting about something I have experienced, I will usually comment to share so they know they are not the only one. I was a lurker for a month or so before joining, it helped me to read what others were going through, I knew I wasn't the only one.

I have learned a lot through this site, and gained strength from the knowledge.

blakesteele posted 1/6/2014 14:59 PM

Thanks for the responses!

I think it wonderful that many of you can frequent various forums that others choose not shows at least a difference in perspective if not differing levels of maturity.

I dont know if it is an excuse...but right now I think I would lack the tact to advise a co-dependent SI member in JFO to do DD differently than I did.

I could also see gaining something from the Wayward forum...and I am closer to that point as I have a strong curiosity to "see" what adultery looks and feels like from those still in it....

I use to wish for a real-life support group like SI....but think that too dangerous. Even with strong boundaries I think the potential bonding over this experience could be even stronger.

I DO see more clearly now how AA, cancer groups, ex-military, 911 survivors, etc. are so beneficial to those who have experienced similar traumas.

Peace to us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 3:55 PM, January 6th (Monday)]

Skan posted 1/6/2014 19:35 PM

I log onto the JFO Forum every time I come on here, and then, unless Iím following a specific thread, work my way down the forums. I try to get to the W forum at least every couple of days. And I do see a lot of similarities, but also, some large differences.

JFO, is pretty much advice presented as gently as possible. Trying to not overwhelm the new person and trying to repeat things as many times and as many ways as possible, to get through the shock of the JFO new member. I tend to go there first, and look for someone with very low responses, so that they feel welcomed and heard.

W has itís ambassadors that are welcoming and offer good points to think about, but it tends to get vey ďrealĒ very quickly. Kind of like the ICR forum with the Betrayed Men. Thereís not a lot of tolerance, rightly so, of foggy people who persist in trying to justify the reason that their lurve is true and unique. In many ways, I think that this is a good approach because I donít think that itís a good thing to have unremorseful Ws trying to hang around a place that Ws who are truly looking to save their marriages are at. Sorta like having an AA meeting at a bar during happy hour, IYKWIM. I will say this, while I certainly think that having a StopSign is a good default option for a W to have, it sometimes takes all I have within me, to not reach out to someone really trying or really looking for insight. For those who are brave enough to post without StopSigns, I try as hard as I can to present anything that I have to say with as much kindness as possible. I figure that if I can open just a small window into a BSs world, then it may help them to help their spouse. A win-win situation, IMO. I have all the support in the world for those who are honestly and with facing painful truths, trying to do better.

SoVerySadNow posted 1/7/2014 09:03 AM

I read the W forum, and I've posted there. I agree with Skan- posting there as a BS must be done with kindness. I also agree that I don't have to be tough on them (but once in awhile someone washes up there that I'd love to "school") but feel confident that the very wise remorseful fW's there will take care of that so much more skillfully.

Once in awhile it's triggery for me, but mostly enlightening. I truly don't understand my WH's brain. I never will. Reading in the W forum is a fascinating glimpse into his world.

There seems to be a mix there, as Blakesteele notes. Different stages perhaps? And there are also those who come through with no intention of changing in any way. Maybe they have mistaken the forum for a place to find someone that will think that their A was the way to go and that their BS should just accept their girlfriend/boyfriend as a positive step. I can visualize the guides and moderators there sighing and getting out the fire extinguishers and hoses for the soon to ensue bashing (well deserved, IMHO) of this type of wayward.

There are threads with the stop sign that I just itch to comment on- but a fWS (and usually many) rescues the day in short order and I read the replies while mumbling, "Exactly! You tell 'em,". They so eloquently swing the 2x4's.

I find myself reading a bit less in the JFO forum sometimes now . It's so raw. The days that I have strength to deal are the days I can work through the triggers I have reading there. I want to offer a hand up to the hurting Betrayeds there when I can. I was offered that- and I still am in General. I'm not really in the R forum yet, but I read.

Eta: boyfriend, as Betrayeds can be men or women, as we know.

[This message edited by SoVerySadNow at 2:20 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)]

sisoon posted 1/7/2014 14:42 PM

The WS folks can be pretty confrontational, and that can be scary for newbies. I know my W said the comments to her first post seemed unduly 'harsh', and that was when she was 2 years out. But there were enough softies around to keep her coming back, and WS has helped her with things I don't want to deal with.

If you're a BS who's interested in WS, I strongly recommend complying with the guidelines.

It took me too long to learn that the unremorseful WSes don't last long anyway, because the remorseful WSes don't accept much crap, and unremorseful WSes don't accept much truth.

I guess you could say SI's WSes don't need BSes' help to keep the unremorseful folks honest.

Oh - there are some GREAT folks over there, so it's worth a look if you can keep yourself from triggering.

OTOH, JFO is still terribly painful for me. It's R, G, OT, F&G for me.

Rebreather posted 1/7/2014 14:54 PM

I got booted from Wayward a long time ago. Oops.

I occasionally read there to see what's going on, but I have to log out to do so and eh, I'm pretty lazy. I find the recovered waywards on this forum pretty damn awesome though. She probably doesn't remember this, but I'm pretty sure it was me who scared Aubrie out of this forum. But she got back at me months later by saying I looked like her MOM!

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