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Does no sex make watching porn ok? WS welcomed.

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megs56 posted 1/6/2014 12:41 PM

You can read my story on my profile if you want some background. I'm not good at making my posts short, but I will try my best. Sorry in advance that it's long.

Basically my WBF and I were in the middle of reconciling when I found out something else that happened while he was deployed. He was talking to this girl there the whole time. He lied numerous times to me about her. This has been the hardest out of everything I have found out since it was more of an actual connection, not just sexual. We had been making a lot of progress and even though this happened in the past, it still happened and he still lied to me about it. So I have been having a hard time, I'm in limbo, and not sure what to do. Although right now we have been working on us as we are still going to CC while I try to figure everything out, but we have not been intimate since I found out. We have not been intimate in about 7 weeks now. I am too hurt and unsure to be intimate. This is the longest we have ever not been intimate, with the exception of when my WBF was deployed.

Right after Christmas he told me he had watched porn 5-6 times in the 6 weeks we had not been intimate after I asked him if he had been watching porn. Porn has been a big issue for us and in CC he had previously agreed to NO porn!! This was months ago. When I asked him about the porn reminding him that he had promised not to watch it, he just said well it's been 6 weeks! He just looked at me like what did I expect him to do.

He told me they were just short 2-5 minute videos, not the "live" porn he used to watch and he was not on any of the sites that offered that or chatting (another issue we had). Yes, that's better than what he was watching before I guess, but I don't care, it's still porn.

I told him that I felt betrayed in a way again because he once again broke a promise to me. He realized that after I said it, but once again he didn't even think about me or the consequences of his actions when he looked at the porn. I didn't even cross his mind. He didn't even stop and think hmmm this might be wrong. Nothing! And that's a problem to me because he never thought about me or us when he did everything he did previously. I thought he had made progress and learned stuff in CC, but now I am starting to question that.

I have IC tonight and we have CC Wed. So I will talk about this in both sessions, but I wanted to get some SI wisdom as well.

My WBF has been mostly committed to recovery. Has not broken NC, deleted everything that needed to be deleted, I have full access to everything, and we are in CC. But he is adamantly against IC for himself, which I think he desperately needs. So that's another reason I have been in limbo.

Thank you for taking the time to read all of this. I know it is long.

Flatlined123 posted 1/6/2014 12:54 PM

Ok, this may sound harsh and I don't know all of your situation or your age. You sound like you may be young... in your 20s? Here's the advice I'd give my daughters.

Why are you staying with this guy? If yours not married or don't have children then why stay?!

He doesn't sound like he's going to change his behaviors nor does he get it. Find someone who will love you and show you the respect you deserve.

LostSamurai posted 1/6/2014 13:20 PM

As a recovering Porn Addict, sober for almost 4 years. Porn is not ok at all for any reason. It's a coping mechanism and it can take over his life and destroy him. It will cause him not to see relationships for what they really are and make him think what can he get out of it instead of what he provide to it.

megs56 posted 1/6/2014 13:24 PM

Thanks for your response Flatlined.

Don't worry about sounding harsh. I am here to get advice, no matter how harsh it may be. I can take it. Also, I expected this question. I appreciate you giving me advice that you'd give your daughters.

I will be 30 on the 17th of this month. Not married and no kids. My WBF is 32.

I really wish I could answer your question better. But honestly I don't exactly know why I am still with him. I am in limbo trying to figure everything out. This might not make sense, but I am the kind of person that it takes me awhile to make a decision, but when I do I feel 100% confident with it and there is no turning back. Kind of hard to explain, but I've always been like that and I am not there yet in this current situation.

I have stayed thus far because I have never felt this strongly for anyone else. I have been in numerous long term relationships, but I definitely don't have to be with someone. I know I would have broken up with any other boyfriend on the 1st DDay. I have spent time single. I don't feel like I need a man. I also don't consider my age at all when it comes to dating (meaning I don't worry about my age and pregnancy and all of that). But my BF is the first guy who I truly felt strongly and deeply about. The first guy I could see a future with. I guess in some ways I am scared that I will never find that again. Then again, I do know I deserve better.

We had also got to a really great place with CC and everything before I found out about him talking to that girl while he was deployed. It's hard because I know how great we can be. We communicate well, get along great, have fun, make each other laugh, cook together, have similar views about money, politics, etc, and this is our only issue. I realize it is a HUGE issue though as trust is the most important thing in a relationship.

I don't feel like he has really gotten it yet. If he had, he would be in IC and wouldn't have watched porn again. He has changed in a lot of ways, but I am not sure it is enough.

Thanks again for your advice. I am sure it's the same advice I'd give my friends.

megs56 posted 1/6/2014 13:27 PM

Thank you so much for your response LostSamurai.

I think my WBF is a porn addict. But he doesn't see it that way. I really appreciate your insight. I agree that it is not ok for him to be watching it, especially since it has caused us significant problems in the past, but thank you for making me feel like I am not crazy for thinking that way.

ascian posted 1/6/2014 13:41 PM

In general, I don't really have a problem with porn as a "thing." It's exploitative for entertainment, but not beyond some of the other acceptable things.

In your case, though, I'd say that it's a problem. It's a problem because he specifically agreed to avoid it and because it's getting in the way of your relationship.

In that it's like any other distraction whether it's video games, poker, or classic cars. If it's hurting the relationship then it needs to be cut back or cut out.

megs56 posted 1/6/2014 14:38 PM

Thank you for your response ascian. I appreciate your perspective. I think you hit the nail right on it's head!

I used to not have a problem with porn as well. My stance on it was always that it was ok as long as it was not negatively effecting the relationship (although my thoughts on porn have somewhat changed after everything I've been through). As we have both noted, it was hurting my relationship though, so it needs to be stopped.

I don't think cutting back would work with my WBF. I think it needs to be no porn at all for him due to his issues. Him watching porn is a very slippery slope.

datura222 posted 1/6/2014 15:47 PM

If he has tried to stop before, but cannot, he has a coping issue with the porn and once usage reaches that level it can get dangerously close to an all out addiction.

WH used porn to cope with feelings of stress and rejection...I think it led to his real life acting out with a prostitute as there is always an escalation pattern when it becomes a coping mechanism.

If I ever catch WH watching porn again, I will be leaving my marriage. There are no second chances after everything we found out on our mutual DDays (we are madhatters). We have filters on all computers, no data on our phones, and he is being polygraphed yearly....this is how seriously I take porn usage.

hikingwithkoda posted 1/6/2014 16:18 PM

My own story has an ironic twist on the no sex --> porn thing. As our sex life dwindled, I found myself turning more and more to porn. I've always had a high drive, and frankly, beating off in front of a computer isn't the most fulfilling or satisfying form of sexual expression there is. As a result, I found myself needing to do it several times per week.

This only came about, though, after months of rejection in bed by my wife; she was "too tired," had to get up early, hadn't showered and felt unclean, etc. etc. etc. Never came out and said she didn't want me, just clearly had lost her desire. She's been menopausal for a couple years now, and I really had struggled with the dramatic dropoff in sex.

Finally, in the last few months, I felt I had come to some peace with the idea that we just were never going to be intimate enough for my needs. As my sig shows, once in the past I dealt with a similar situation with an A, but I knew I couldn't do that again. My compromise? Stay married and faithful to a smart, beautiful, loving woman who had lost almost all interest in sex, and deal with my frustration by using porn late at night when everyone was asleep. The great irony is that, just at the time I was coming to this acceptance of her diminished sexual interest, she was meeting my daughter's softball coach for cheap, dirty sex. (Including in a parked car on a public street! )

I know porn can come between couples; in my case I thought it was helping preserve my marriage. In reality, I was just foolishly whacking off alone while my wife was giving herself to another guy. I don't think I'll ever be able to watch porn again.

steadfast1973 posted 1/6/2014 17:40 PM

Porn was the reason there was no sex in my M. And my FWH escalated to an escort, when the porn failed to scratch the itch. To him, he said, it was just more porn, until he was doing it, then it became real. (He confessed the next day). I really think the porn altered his state of mind... His perception was all out of whack.

seekingright2013 posted 1/6/2014 18:18 PM

Hi Megs, i read your profile and post ... Honestly, save yourself a lot more heartbreak and leave this guy behind.

I'm so glad you're in IC .... Sometimes that strong feeling of chemistry is your dysfunction feeding off his dysfunction. I know. The SO who cheated on me, I had never felt so much chemistry with anyone. Ever. I was 47 when we met, and I'd been around the block so no naf here. But honestly, that incredible feeling of love clouded my good judgement. So just consider that possibility in your own case.

Also you are so young. So much potential and promise. Why are you throwing away valuable, precious time on someone who has repeatedly lied to and betrayed you?? Why??? He is showing you who he really is. BELIEVE HIM. He's not who you think he is or want him to be. Look at his ACTIONS.

Also, to throw away more time on this cheating lying loser, costs you dearly. Google "opportunity cost." To continue this relationship will cost you precious, precious time that you cannot recover ... Time that you could use healing, focusing on YOUR own life, and dating worthwhile men.

I am 53 now, and have 2 daughters, 19 & 16. I would say the exact same thing to them.

I hope this doesn't come across as harsh. Please value yourself enough not to throw away your time and love on someone who has CHOSEN to treat you this way.

[This message edited by seekingright2013 at 6:20 PM, January 6th (Monday)]

megs56 posted 1/6/2014 19:27 PM

Thank you so much for all of your replies. They are much appreciated!

datura - Whenever my BF was deployed, especially this last one since he was not flying during this deployment, he would watch porn basically every day / any time he could. When he came back from his last deployment it was definitely an addiction. Honestly, I don't think he can stop, maybe for a short period of time, but not forever. Definitely not without IC.

I applaud all of the steps you have taken to make sure porn is not an issue in your marriage again. You definitely take it very seriously, as it sounds like you should in your situation (I feel like it should be taken very seriously in mine as well). You sound very strong. Thank you for your perspective.

hiking - thank you for sharing your person story with me. I appreciate it. My WBF was watching porn when our sex life was great. We weren't having any problems. The porn then caused intimacy issues later as he was choosing it over me. The more stories I read, the more I truly believe that porn is generally not a good thing and it is definitely harmful to a lot of relationships.

steadfast - Thank you for your insight. My WBF escalated from porn videos then had to watch the live web cam / interactive kind of porn and then he turned to sites like AFF and was sending pics and videos back and forth with other girls. He used to have a ton of pics and videos of other girls (that I found on his laptops - stuff from over the years). I worry that without IC my WBF might end up escalating like your FWH. I believe porn has completely altered my WBF's state of mind and his perception on what is normal.

Seeking - thank you for your response as well. It was not too harsh. I appreciate it. I welcome all honest replies, no matter how hard they might be to hear. I believe I need to hear what other members think.

Thank you for your insight. You have given me a lot to think about. I am actually about to leave for IC so I am glad I read your response before I left. I will definitely consider what you are saying as a possibility in my own case. Also, the opportunity cost thing gives me a lot to think about as well. Your advice has been heard and taken to heart. I really do need to spend some time thinking about everything you said.

In all honesty, if I had daughters I would probably tell them the same thing you told me. Thanks again.

Off to IC!!

Jesu posted 1/6/2014 19:34 PM

I have no issue with watching porn. Of course your WSO broke a promise to you to not watch porn. If he was not prepared to follow through then he should not have made that promise. He could have just masturbated without the porn quite easily, to make up for the lack of sex between you.

He seems unremorseful and only concerned with his own needs, not yours. I'd move on from him if I were you.

Jesu posted 1/6/2014 20:07 PM

I know porn can come between couples; in my case I thought it was helping preserve my marriage. In reality, I was just foolishly whacking off alone while my wife was giving herself to another guy.

I can totally relate. I was the fool jerking off to porn, trying to be understanding of my WSO low sex drive...for years! Only to find out that she was fucking and seeing complete strangers as well as friends behind my back the whole time...and was just lying to me. Oh, and she even masturbated to porn regularly instead of being intimate with me.

Still, I have no issue with porn myself, within a healthy relationship.

whiteflower99 posted 1/6/2014 21:33 PM

In and of itself I have no real problem with porn just as I have nothing against alcohol.
HOWEVER when, it (and "it" can be anything from drinking to video games) comes between a couple, THAT is when it is a problem.
One of the things I am trying to wrap my head around is my WH's pending SA diagnosis. What does that mean for me as an individual?
I know that if he were an alcoholic I would NOT want to never have another glass of wine, just because he is. Perhaps that makes me unsupportive, but there it is.
I do understand staying because of the depths of your feelings, trust me, I am the freaking queen of denial and will beat a horse to death and then pound it into its grave.
However, my situation is different.
I love my WH.
I do.
BUT, if we didn't have four children, I wouldn't be here with him now. Not like this.
Stay or go, your choice, but be aware that the best indicator of his future behavior is what he is exhibiting now. And based on your post, he isn't going to change.

Dare2Trust posted 1/6/2014 23:15 PM


I understand you are addressing the PORN issue....

But after reading your profile, and many of your posts: I truly believe your issues with this BF/Man you are involved with - really spans a lot more than simply his Porn Addiction.

Since the very beginning of your relationship with him - Your cheating BF has never been honest with you: You have been dealing with his Dishonesty...his ongoing LIES...and his ongoing cheating with other women from the get-go.

Not only has he continued to have VERY INAPPROPRIATE relationships with Other Women (who for some reason you continually refer to as "girls")...Any time you have confronted him about these women, and his sexual encounters with them: He lies, and lies and lies - until you CONFRONT HIM WITH the truth and evidence you have uncovered regarding his infidelity, including: TEXTS, NUDE PHOTOS, MESSAGES, etc...

THEN, your BF lies again: Promising to stop all contact with the woman...and to stop all inappropriate behaviors with her. YET, you "catch" him again engaging in INAPPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR with the same woman later on.
This is a "pattern" with the BF that has never stopped.

You have the "evidence"....
The folders of naked girls, pictures, videos. The AFF account. The various PORN Sites.
You have access to the Nover account to read the messages between your boyfriend and OW.

Yes - your BF agreed to attend Couples Counseling; BUT he was continuing his inappropriate affair relationship with the OW behind your back; while attending Couples Counseling with you. You read the messages between him and the OW while you were attending Couples Counseling - you have the "evidence." He has not changed.

Even when confronted: Your BF continued to LIE until you demanded that he "sign onto the Porn Site" and allow you to view what he is watching. THEN - he "confessed" and showed remorse. But, only after you "caught him."

It's critically important that your BF refuses to see Individual Counseling. You need to ask yourself: WHY DOES HE REFUSE?

I'd suggest: Your BF's Porn Addiction is just ONE of his major issues/problems. It does appear PORN is a serious problem...especially since it has escalated to him wanting/needing "live interactive porn"...and to him preferring PORN over actual sexual intercourse with you - a woman he says he loves.
--He has serious issues with being a habitual LIAR.
--He also has serious issues with FIDELITY.
From your posts - he has been involved with "another woman" since the beginning, and throughout his relationship with you.
AND - he has LIED and LIED and LIED to you about his relationship/involvement with these women.

I truly hope you will use your Individual Therapy to concentrate on yourself - and what's in your best interests.
Your concentration on this man - and you trying to "meet his needs/wants" does not appear to be in the best interests of your personal, mental, and emotional well-being... in my opinion.

It appears obvious: This man has not ended his relationship with this OW. He has not stopped engaging in his daily Porn activities. He has not stopped LYING to you.

I'm sincerely sorry for the pain and turmoil you're going through -and I wish you the very best.

megs56 posted 1/7/2014 12:15 PM

Jesu - Thank you for your reply. I used to have no issue with porn and I think, like you said, it can be fine in a healthy relationship. But the real issue is that he broke a promise to me. That is what I am upset about. It is just one of many broken promises.

He seems unremorseful and only concerned with his own needs, not yours. I'd move on from him if I were you.

I am definitely starting to feel like he is a lot more concerned with his needs than mine. And only doing the minimum of what he thinks he has to do to show remorse.

whiteflower - Thank you for your response. Sorry that you are dealing with a WH who is a SA and you are staying because you have 4 kids. Hugs to you.

HOWEVER when, it (and "it" can be anything from drinking to video games) comes between a couple, THAT is when it is a problem.

I could have written that exact sentence myself! That's exactly how I feel. I guess his actions right now are the best indicator for how he will be in the future. And that's not a future I want...

megs56 posted 1/7/2014 15:37 PM

Dare2trust - Thank you for your response and taking the time to not only write me a long message, but also read my profile and other posts. It is much appreciated.

I do have to say though, I was a little taken back by what seems to me like a dig about me saying "girls" instead of "women". I have no idea why I said girls and not women. I am guessing part of it is that's just how I talk and since all of the OW were younger, I guess I just ended up using girls to describe them. Honestly, I never put any thought into it and writing my story on my profile and all of my posts were very hard for me, so that was the farthest thing from my mind.

I get that I welcomed people to be harsh. And I still do. But I was referring more specifically to my situation. I am just someone who has been betrayed and I am in a lot of pain looking to SI for support, comfort, advice, and even 2 x 4's when needed.

I am sure that you didn't mean any disrespect and I am probably taking it too personal. But I felt I needed to address it. I am not upset, and I hope it does not come across that way. I was just surprised at the dig.

On to the other parts of your post -

I agree that porn is not the only issue! You are also correct that he has never told me the truth until I confronted him with evidence. That has always really bothered me. He would tell me he wasn't doing anything "bad" and would never put our relationship at risk again, but he was still doing stuff at that time. And he has lied to me for most of our relationship. Makes it very hard to believe him now, obviously.

I do want to point out that as far as I can tell, I am pretty sure that none of this started until he was deployed and gone for 10 weeks though. We had been together awhile before then, so I do believe that he was honest in the beginning up until the deployment. Not that it really even matters, he still ended up lying and doing everything that he did.

I must have been unclear when I typed up my story, I wrote it all at once and I should go back and re-read it again. But my WBF has not had any contact with the last OW since August (or any other OW). What I found while we were in CC was from the past (April and May). But he still did it and he still lied to me and he never came clean about it in CC until I found the evidence.

You are right though. Reading your post I felt that is probably exactly what I would be saying to one of my girl friend's if they were in my situation. Also, even thought I have written out my whole story (which hits me hard when I read it all there at once), it really hit me hard seeing someone else post ALL of the stuff he has done to me. I feel like you were kind of shaking me (in a friendly way) :) telling me all the things he has done and trying to get me to understand that I need to leave. Like I said, your advice seems like the type a concerned friend would give another. I appreciate everything you said and I want you to know I truly and deeply took everything to heart.

I'm getting there I think. At my own pace. Things people have said on this thread and IC last night were really the things I needed to hear to make a decision I think.

Your concentration on this man - and you trying to "meet his needs/wants" does not appear to be in the best interests of your personal, mental, and emotional well-being... in my opinion.

This is so incredibly true!! I talked about that a lot in IC.

While in IC I told my therapist I wish she could tell me what to do and laughed. At the end she said obviously she can't tell me what to do (of course) but she wanted to say that most people don't change, not without hard work or something that shakes them to the core and makes them want to change. From what I told her, she said my WBF seems like he will never change. That's how I have been feeling. With all of his issues, I don't see how he could ever change without hard work and IC.

Ugh wow sorry this is so long!! You post just got me thinking about a lot. Plus, I talk a lot IRL, so I guess it makes since that I always make long posts. Thanks for the "shake" that I needed.

I'm sincerely sorry for the pain and turmoil you're going through -and I wish you the very best.

I read this after IC and I was crying a bit before . This made me feel a lot better. A stranger really being sorry for all of the pain and turmoil I am going through. So thank you for that. I wish you the very best as well.

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