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* Sorry this is so long..please still read 'cause i need lots of advice! especially from the veteran posters. *
Basically my wh is still in the fog or just a jerk, not sure which. wondering if i should just get a divorce or wait and see if counseling helps. here's the story: We had a good marriage for all but the last year. true love, crazy for each other best friends, soul mates all that. he was very good to me and romantic etc. i had some depression problems following the kid's births for a couple years but then got help,i know these times were hard on him but he was wonderful throughout. The past year or so though my husband slowly began to change. He grew very grouchy and depressed, had his priorities way out of wack (everything and everyone before his family, i felt we were his last thought and an annoying thought at that!) and just generally became a bit of an asshole to me and the kids. In november i peeked at his phone cause i just had a feeling. i never do this btw. i saw three months worth of texts to a girl half his age at work. i saw all the awful details of their sexual encounters and all the professions of love and how he loved me but wasnt "in love" with me. this, a huge surprise from my "soulmate"!! As all here know i almost died right there, literally. with great love comes equally great pain. After i threw the phone at his head while he was sleeping he said that it was over with her and had been for awhile, but that wasnt true; the last text was that night and involved something he did to her that made her crazy! he said oh they had met at a work party and went out to the car to talk about it being over and started to make out- i found out later(via bank statments) this "admission" was also a lie. he had actually taken her out to dinner at "our place" and what she described in her text was just one more sexual encounter.. anyway: he said he didnt want to loose me etc. i wandered around in shock crying all the time, and talking things out with him. but he made me mad by treating the whole affair like an accident and put a password on his phone! well come xmas time and i find evidence that he had made reservations at a local hotel about a month after affair was "over" on a weekend he was supposed to be out of town for a sports event. he gave some lame excuse about why he would make reservations to this hotel but not go and his story about the trip timeline kept changing AND they said at the hotel when i called that he had been there. he never ever admitted to it. said hotel was wrong. i bet a million dollars he would go to his grave sticking to that story!!anyway i was upset and said i didnt think the marriage was going to work. the next day was his bday and he said he was just going to go over to his friends and stay there cause he was so upset over our marriage problems that he didnt want to celebrate. but we bs we know in our gut, dont we? i drove over to his friends house, nope not there. then to the neighborhood where i suspected the OW from nov. lived and you guessed it there was his car. i knocked on every house i could before giving up but no luck. so i left some very pleasant bday text messages and notes on his car. i got his usual reply when he finally turned on his phone next morn. "it's not like that, i'm sorry i'm so sorry." and "i never meant to hurt you! i do love you!" he even sent me a text not to be mad at OW that it was all his fault. i said divorce time and all that. but i am an insane person and a week after all this my heart softened and i said i would try legal separation and counseling. then a couple days later we got into it cause i told him the big thing that upsets me is that dammed phone. i said i wanted to see it right then and there(keep in mind i never made any demands before this) he said no and some bullshit about texts to friends about his feelings and he wanted to spare me any grief. i told him i did all this forgiving etc and agreeing to work on it etc.and the one thing i want, the ONLY thing i asked for he wouldnt give me. he was such an asshole about it and said he was leaving. i said if you walk out without letting me see your phone then im going to divorce you no seperation. he got up and left. that was two days ago. i broke my arm roller skating with the kids yesterday and he stayed with me at the hospital. he said he was sorry about the phone but felt his privacy was violated when i found the texts oh how insane he is. he says he still wants to just separate. but there is the phone thing and the whole "it was an accident" thing.(yeah, stopping for condoms ) but here is the worst part: i love the stupid asshole which i guess makes me stupid. What is wrong with me? he is probably still cheating. how can he be so awful and hurt me then act like he loves me, what am i to him? anyway i'm hoping if we go to counseling i will get back the man i married instead of this psychopath. just hoping he will get slapped out of the fog but not sure if i should wait it out or just wash my hands of him now. if i didnt love who he was so very much and we didnt have kids then this would be easy, but what do you do when you love a selfish cheating no good jerk?!! please help me!!!!

[This message edited by whereismylove at 1:49 AM, January 7th (Tuesday)]

Hi Whereis I'm so sorry, your tale is heartbreaking.

You are totally normal to keep loving him and to want your old husband back, this just means that you are a loving, forgiving spouse who takes your marriage vows seriously.

Some marriages survives affairs and some don't, the key is that you both need to want to work on it with open communication, patience and no contact with OW. At the moment your H doesn't sound committed to any of the above.

I hope I don't hurt you further by saying this but he seems to want to keep you hanging on while staying in the affair with OW. I'm not sure why, my ex did the same, in our case it was to have a fall back when he needed it, but his reasons may be different.

Have you read the 180 and are you in counselling?

((whereismylove))

Your husband has a girlfriend. Its ok to still love him and hate what he is doing to you/your family at the same time. Its hard to wrap our heads around the fact that our marriage isn't what we believed it was for so long.

Being nice to him, talking to him, inviting him home, etc - will not knock him off any fence or push him out of the fog. The only way to do that is to give him a giant dose of reality. NC. Only kids and finances. He leaves the home. Yes, even if that means he doesn't have anywhere to go.

Look, he is seeing her anyway. He is seeing her and lying to you about it, then when you catch him he says, "Oops, it was an accident." Accident my ass. He has you home mooning over him and wishing for him to come back and he has OW too. He doesn't get both. He makes a choice to be with you or he leaves. The middle is torture to you.

He is going to say a lot of things. But saying them and doing them are two different things. Make him show you who he is with his actions. Is he still seeing her? YES. Is he hiding his phone from you? YES. A husband who doesn't want to lose his wife doesn't have a girlfriend.

You have a choice here, too. You can put up with his behavior or not.

Welcome to the club no one ever plans to join, but are glad they found.

It seems that you have been doing a fair amount of reading here, and that will help you figure out what to do, and how best to go about saving your sanity.

There are a few things that you need to do though, and these are to protect yourself, and your kids. The harsh reality of the situation is you are in a current state of sharing your spouse, if you haven't already lost him. Can you get him back? Only if he chooses to remove his head from his rectum. YOU CANNOT MAKE HIM DO ANYTHING. No of us has the power to force someone to do something they don't want to. We do however have the power to make life really uncomfortable for them if they continue to make choices that hurt us.

The following is a list of To Dos that I give nearly every new member:

1. Go see a lawyer, not next week, not next month, but NOW. Get the information of how this will go down should you S or D. Find out what your rights are, and what his responsibilities are. Prepare yourself with knowledge. Knowledge is power, and that will give you strength.

2. Go get STD tested, and do not engage in intimacy with your spouse until he too has been tested and provides you with written proof of a clean bill of health. This is where he starts to get uncomfortable.
If you are having trouble with the basics in life, like eating, sleeping, and staying hydrated, then by all means talk to your Dr about this as well. Many of us benefited from antianxiety meds, and antidepressants to get through this. Given your stated history it is even more important that you stay on top of this.

3. Read up on 180 and hit it hard. This is to protect yourself, and help you gain inner strength, and perspective on your relationship. This NOT to win him back, for many here it is an added benefit (This will also start to make life really uncomfortable for him).

4. Tell him what you require for R, and that should include complete transparency, an NC note that he writes, and you get to approve of and watch him send it. If he balks at letting you see his phone, you should be wary that something is still ongoing. If he balks at letting you on his computers/tablet whatever be concerned. If he willing gives you this be suspect that he has a burner phone.
You will see the phrase "Trust but verify" here, a lot. I disagree. I think it is foolish to trust. My version of this is "Do NOT trust, verify verify verify, and trust will slowly rebuild itself each time you find nothing".
Along with transparency you have to out this to OW's partner/spouse if she has one. DO NOT tell your H you are doing this, just do it. A's thrive in secrecy, and day in daylight.
Be very clear, concise, and prepared with consequences should he not be willing to meet or follow what you need for R to occur.

5. Know and tell yourself this every day. "I did nothing to cause this. He made his own choices. I am strong, smart, and capable. I will survive this and be stronger, smarter and fierce in the end. I deserve much more, and I am going to demand it from now on."
You of course can put your own spin on this, but you do need some sort of positive self talk. It helps you to find you again.

6. Do one nice thing for you everyday. You deserve it. Take a long bath, get your nails done, go see a movie, whatever but do it because you enjoy it and you deserve it.

From this point on you determine how this goes. IT's up to you, you can choose to attempt R, you can choose to D. Whatever, you want. But know this. You will not have resolution to it for quite some time. It will be a rough road for a while but in the end you will be ok, if you act with integrity, and demand the respect you deserve.

((((and strength)))